Blue Jays Discussion: Back in Toronto AND things are happening (trade deadline @ 4pm ET/1pm PT today)

[TheMadHatTrick]

Philipmike get out of the shower before we end up moving Orelvis for Max Kepler.

 

[TF97]

Well Berrios is only making $6M or so and for another yeaer. That's leaves cash in the bank for other moves, extensions etc.

I think Ray is worth investing in on a multi-year deal. I think his past will scare teams off just enough to keep his cost down, but I trust that if he stays in Toronto that Pete and the R&D team can help him avoid reverting to his old ways.

 

[paul pearce]

Our lineup is much better than the Yankees even with their new additions. Plus we just added an ace to Ryu ray manoah an stripling. Look out everyone. Springer is back leading off an comfortable. I'm throwing big money on jays to win the world series regardless of the dodgers moves

 

[weems]

 

[cyris]

So Tatis Jr has put up 11 wins in the major leagues and signed a 300+ million dollar deal. Austin Martin is doing good in double ball in his first year as a pro. Martin is two months younger then Tatis. Like they literally are not even in the same stratosphere lol.

I didn’t say he was as good as Tatis now or that he ever will be. Just that this trade will look that stupid in a few years.
We probably aren’t making the playoffs this year. We are to far back.
That will leave us with 1 year of control of Berios. And for that we gave up a guy who was rated 2nd overall a year ago.
So what he hasn’t shown a ton of power. He is 2 years younger than the average player in AA and he skipped-A and A

It was a tremendously bad trade.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Well this is from editor of Baseball America

I hate mindsets like this.

Yes, the Blue Jays lost absolutely nothing off their roster with this trade, so they improved their team with a very strong pitcher with the MLB team no worse for wear. But trades are hardly viewed that way.

On the other hand, it severely downplays the value and importance of prospects. This management group is all about drafting and trading for solid prospects and developing them slowly. Now we're reading stuff like this where it seems to suggest the importance of that is minimized.

Sure, maybe Martin isn't what he is thought to be and management sold him off at a high before his value drops off. But it's still tough to digest considering he was a very recent top 5 pick and was highly regarded amongst the team's top prospects.

 

[Bjindaho]

Martin hasn't been good in the field. Smith is actually a great defender as SS.

In a perfect world, we find a way to get Smith up to play 3B and end the misery of Biggio trying to play a position he can't play well enough defensively to be an every day option.

 

[phillipmike]

6 Years ago today Daniel Norris was traded to Detroit in a package for David Price.

Norris is now being traded to Milwaukee.

 

[Leafsfan74]

I think Ray is worth investing in on a multi-year deal. I think his past will scare teams off just enough to keep his cost down, but I trust that if he stays in Toronto that Pete and the R&D team can help him avoid reverting to his old ways.

Hence, why the salary savings on a second legit ace in Berrios is important.

 

[ryno23]

Berrios is not a middle of the road guy. He's a legit top end starter. They traded from a position of strength to address a position of weakness.

This team had major issues in the middle innings, late innings and had a hole in the rotation. They've now acquired Hand, Richards, Cimber and Berrios to fill those spots. This team is now ready to compete (assuming Montoyo doesn't sabotage them with his idiotic managing).

Berrios is good but not 2 top 5 prospects good.

 

[paul pearce]

Berrios is good but not 2 top 5 prospects good.

That's the price of being able to resign him to win championships

 

[Hoverhand]

The van is headed south, gentlemen.

 

[Suntouchable13]

I don’t care about prospects like you guys do. I like players that can get it done now.

 

[Hoverhand]

I don’t care about prospects like you guys do. I like players that can get it done now.

We're more upset about not getting enough players that can get it done now for the high premium they paid.

 

[Bjindaho]

I hate mindsets like this.

Yes, the Blue Jays lost absolutely nothing off their roster with this trade, so they improved their team with a very strong pitcher with the MLB team no worse for wear. But trades are hardly viewed that way.

On the other hand, it severely downplays the value and importance of prospects. This management group is all about drafting and trading for solid prospects and developing them slowly. Now we're reading stuff like this where it seems to suggest the importance of that is minimized.

Sure, maybe Martin isn't what he is thought to be and management sold him off at a high before his value drops off. But it's still tough to digest considering he was a very recent top 5 pick and was highly regarded amongst the team's top prospects.

No, he was highly regarded by a fan base looking at pre-season ratings. This isn't the first time either concern has been brought up by people around the team. If they aren't correctable problems, then this trade is selling high on guys that they don't consider big assets.

There's a real chance that neither guy is a top 5 prospect internally.

 

[Leafsfan74]

I hate mindsets like this.

Yes, the Blue Jays lost absolutely nothing off their roster with this trade, so they improved their team with a very strong pitcher with the MLB team no worse for wear. But trades are hardly viewed that way.

On the other hand, it severely downplays the value and importance of prospects. This management group is all about drafting and trading for solid prospects and developing them slowly. Now we're reading stuff like this where it seems to suggest the importance of that is minimized.

Sure, maybe Martin isn't what he is thought to be and management sold him off at a high before his value drops off. But it's still tough to digest considering he was a very recent top 5 pick and was highly regarded amongst the team's top prospects.

You logic makes sense, except the Jays aren't the run away favourites. They need this boost to have a shot at the playoffs. You simply can't wait when in such a situation.

It's not ideal, but, you play to win every year. They are within striking distance of having that chance again as a young team.

 

[TF97]

Hence, why the salary savings on a second legit ace in Berrios is important.

I agree entirely. If they can extend Ray for the Eovaldi contract (I think that is what he will get and its a fair deal) then a rotation in 2022 of Ryu/Berrios/Ray/Manoah/Pearson (or someone else) is promising with the lineup they have and Moreno, Groshans, Martinez on the way. I can't disagree that the Berrios trade improves the team and gives them flexibility, I am just unhappy with the price they paid. I expected Berrios to be overvalued a la Archer but still didn't expect this.

 

[Eyedea]

Berrios is good but not 2 top 5 prospects good.

Doubt SWR was regarded that highly internally. Even Martin could be seen as being a 4/5 in our system based on FV.

 

[ryno23]

IMO, I would work on a Yan Gomes trade (willing to part with either Reese or Jansen) and then a Bryant+Kimbrel trade (something like Biggio, Smith, and Kay)

After giving up 2 top 5 prospects for Berrios who pitches every 5th day you will need to pony up more for a guy in Kimbrel who has the same control but impacts the game on a daily basis. This is not even including Bryant who on his own will garner you at least 1 top 10 and one top 20 prospects on his own.

 

[Hoverhand]

 

[paul pearce]

I don’t care about prospects like you guys do. I like players that can get it done now.

Yup this is the best hitting lineup in baseball an still looking to add a catcher lmao our starting pitchers are solidifying. Hope we turn Pearson into that High velocity reliver or closer

 

[canucksfan]

Berrios is good but not 2 top 5 prospects good.

I don't like the trade because I think it is an overpayment but SWR is not a top-five prospect.

 

[theaub]

Yup this is the best hitting lineup in baseball an still looking to add a catcher lmao our starting pitchers are solidifying. Hope we turn Pearson into that High velocity reliver or closer

Pearson himself can be the high velocity reliever guy this year

 

[ryno23]

Doubt SWR was regarded that highly internally. Even Martin could be seen as being a 4/5 in our system based on FV.

who cares what they are regarded internally. You need to know how these 2 players are regarded externally. What you think of the prospect means crap you need to know what other teams value them at. I am sure if they went out and sent a memo to all teams that Martin and SWR were available in trades they could have gotten better than Berrios.

 

[canucksfan]