Babcock resigning as CBJ Head Coach *Mod note, post #687*

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PainForShane

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Dec 24, 2019
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To think a professional sports team doesn't have lawyers on retainer for situations just like this, and that it would cost them "millions" to go to court over firing Babcock, is absolute stupidity.

They likely paid out a settlement to Babcock to get this to disappear as quickly as possible. It has nothing to do with court costs or paying lawyers.

Disagree with your bolded above. Obviously CBJ should have lawyers on retainer, but that's probably more of an advice-type thing, I'd be surprised if it covered the cost of an entire lawsuit. So if Babs were to actually take them to court, they'd need to prepare an actual case and would need to pay for that, millions seems like an accurate number.

I'm sure Babs knows this, so 100% agree that a settlement works out much better for CBJ. Not to mention the longer this drags out, the more bad press for everyone involved. So obvi they would want this to disappear as quickly as possible, a settlement makes sense for multiple reasons
 

Washed Up 29YearOld

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I wonder if there's a study that shows abusive bosses get more out of their employees that kind supportive bosses? God knows, companies usually go with the former - the boss who makes the lives of their employees hell, so there must be some method to their madness.
Abusive bosses leads to less motivation and less efficiency. A company where everyone buys into the same vision, has an encouraging boss, and where workers don't feel like they're under surveillance 24/7 will always perform better. Yes there are many studies. Research corporate leadership articles.
 

SmoggyTwinkles

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Abusive bosses leads to less motivation and less efficiency. A company where everyone buys into the same vision, has an encouraging boss, and where workers don't feel like they're under surveillance 24/7 will always perform better. Yes there are many studies. Research corporate leadership articles.

Are you telling me respectful and positive type of management gets better results vs feeling like you're on the verge of being fired, told you're not doing enough when you just gave it your all?

I'm sure many of us have experienced this. I do not feel motivated when I work my tail off and my manager berates me for it, even though I know and my co-workers know that we just killed it that shift.

There's a lot of this going on these days from what I hear. It's a bad style of management and always has been.
 

Guttersniped

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I mean all of that could be true and factual. It seems pretty obvious, that Babcock treats people in different situations very differently.

A veteran, good player, a colleague, a superior, or someone else he likes? Treated with respect and warmth. A young player, a less skilled, borderline NHLer, a player he doesn't really like for some other reason? Treated like garbage. Pretty sure that's the reason for this type of stuff. If JK talks to say Yzerman, his view of Babcock as a coach and a person is very different to say Frank Corrado.

Which some say is lack of due diligence, but also human behaviour. If you ask a 60 year old white male how he feels about some things in society, his answer is going to be very different from a 20 year old black female. In all likelihood. And if you're a 50 year old white male, in most circumstances the former is probably the person you are more likely to ask.
Yzerman had him as coach for one year and Babcock would have sucked up to him.

The dynamic is players can’t complain about the coach. The one way to complain is to ask for a trade. Teams don’t protect players and coaches only get fired for losing unless there’s a public scandal.

No current player would go public with stories about a bad coach because being labeled a malcontent would torpedo their career.

Marner is a big enough star that he could survive that, plus it was hazy who leaked that but Franzen never talked.

And an abusive POS of shit like Babcock can exploit this.

My hope is the few bad apples don’t get jobs and the rest try harder to treat people better.

“King, 75, made contact with Babcock later in the process, but he wanted to implore him to adopt a less rigid and more vulnerable coaching style, knowing how Babcock’s run with Toronto ended in 2019. It’s an approach that King wished he had taken earlier in his career.

<cut>

“There’s an impression you get when you’re developing as a coach that the head coach has to be business-like, stern, firm,” King said. “Yeah, you’ve got time for the players, but there’s always a level of separation because you know at some point you may have to cut a player, or trade a player, or bench a player.

“Coaching, really, is not about establishing relationships as much as it’s sometimes about continually repairing relationships.”

King found that he bonded with players much more closely when he was an assistant with the Coyotes under Dave Tippett. He came to regret that he wasn’t able to foster more relationships like that earlier in his career, he said.

“I thought to myself, ‘Geez, why didn’t I just loosen up a little bit, ya know?” he said.
In 1981-82, King was coaching at the University of Saskatchewan. Babcock was one of his defensemen, though he dressed in only five games that season.

In the early 2000s, King was hired to coach the expansion Blue Jackets while Babcock was starting his pro coaching career with AHL Cincinnati in the Anaheim organization. On several occasions, Babcock would drive to Columbus to watch Blue Jackets games in Nationwide Arena when King was coach.

Last month, more than 40 years after they first met in Saskatchewan, King took Babcock to school again with an eye-opening phone call.

“We talked about a few things,” Babcock said. “But he said, ‘Make sure all those players know what a good guy (you are).

“Even now, at his age, (King) thinks I’m the kid on his team and he’s making sure I do it right. And I’ve got a lot of respect for that. I’m proud that I’ve got a relationship with Kinger over all these years and that he feels he can call me and give me a little tightening on my way into Columbus.”

King said he has no doubts that Babcock is one of the best Xs and Os coaches in the world, and he raved — like everybody else — about Babcock’s level of preparedness. But he also saw how he ran aground in Toronto, and he heard the awful stories that surfaced just after he was fired by the Leafs.

“I don’t know all the details; I do know what I’ve heard,” King said. “In Toronto, Mike was pretty much known as a tactician, not really a players’ coach. One of the keys to coaching is to be hard to please, but easy to play for.

“Well, now more than ever, environment is paramount, and that starts with the coach. If the coach has time for the players, has time to smile a little bit, show some personality to the players, it can help a very strong situation to develop.”

King then went a step further.

“When the players want to play for you, it’s a terrific thing,” he said. “It’s really the best feeling you can have as a coach. You feel like you’re really part of it. If they’re playing in spite of you, that’s not a good thing.

“I’ve always believed that decisions are made with your head, but choices are made with your heart. You make a choice to get into a shot lane and block a shot. You make the choice to back-check that extra step or two. It makes a big difference.

“If you’re a coach that can foster that … teams making the hard choices are the ones that win.”


 
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TheRumble

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If you guys haven't already this is an excerpt from the latest Spitting Chiclets:

- Biz said that he got sources from several current and former Babcock players before releasing this news. Chiclets is very much a pro player podcast and they give their guests final say on what stays in the podcast so they wouldn't just say this without getting a player's approval
- One of the incidents took place at Babcock's house. He invited the team to a lunch and asked to look through everyone's phone. He took a look at one of the rookie's phone, flipped through some photos and then told him to leave without telling him why.

I mean that story kinda says it all doesn't it?
 

FDBluth

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After more and more news of this is leaked, my question is now becoming why are they allowing Babcock to "resign" and say they outright "fired" him. Surely what he's done has to be some breach of some NHL/NHLPA code here?
 
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AvroArrow

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You sure he wasn't fired because the Leafs actually sucked ass? They were 9-10-4, on a 6 game losing streak, and some of those losses were quite embarrassing.

All the stuff about Marner etc, only came up after his firing.
I take it you're new to this whole Babcock thing ? So what happened was Babcock was being a complete asshole and treating the Leafs players like shit. He lost the room, the guys on the ice literally played like they didn't give a shit because frankly, they didn't. Go back to our boards and read our threads if you like, everybody knew they were playing to get Babcock fired. We knew there was lots of tension between coaching/players but the fact that they were essentially throwing games, all but confirmed it. There was the Marner incident and the Spezza incident on opening right that didn't sit right with any of us.

Now we are finding out that he pulled this shit with the Leafs players as well with the phones. There was a veteran player, a new comer, who's phone he plugged into his TV with multiple people in the room, and started scrolling through that said players pictures "To see what kind of person he is" That didn't sit well with the veteran, he reported it to Dubas. A second player reported the same thing, and requested a trade, after that he was fired.

Also being reported the Leafs had a designated person that would tell the players/rookies that this is the shit Babcock pulls, so that they're prepared for it.


Seems like you're more focused on the Leafs record at the time of the firing vs Babcocks antics, not sure why.
 

LOFIN

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Seems like you're more focused on the Leafs record at the time of the firing vs Babcocks antics, not sure why.
Because that’s what everyone has been doing for the last 4 years lol.

Please show me some articles etc, by any reputable source, suggesting that Babcock was fired because of the stunt he pulled on Marner or Spezza scrathing. Any insider from TSN or Sportsnet, local beatwriter or something.
 

VivaLasVegas

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Think Tank Topic:

How does CBJ pick up the pieces?

IMHO, the CBJ organization should use this experience to get their larger house in order. As far as I can tell, John McConnell owns the CBJ through a company called JMAC, Inc., which owns and controls other McConnell assets. JMAC is controlled by Michael Priest, an accountant. Neither McConnell or Priest have any background running a professional sports organization other than the CBJ and neither seems to have any experience with professional hockey other than the CBJ, albeit both have a long history now with the CBJ.

Their management of the CBJ has apparently been to "hire hockey professionals and let them do their job." Except they haven't done their job, and there does not appear to be much accountability or oversight other than if things get bad enough they fire the club president and/or GM. Thus, when Jarmo in desperation hired Babcock, there were no red flags raised internally as to a situation where probably most owners would have vetoed the decision and handed Jarmo an empty box to clean out his desk for making such a bad decision in the first place.

If the CBJ really wanted to fix their club, the answer is probably simple: Appoint a board of three or five directors with substantial knowledge of the business of hockey and let them be the oversight and enforce accountability over the club president and GM, including the right to review and veto all major decisions before they are inked. Chances are that such a board would sooner or later install quality management and controls and then the CBJ would thereafter be something like a successful franchise. Such a board would not have to be full-time, but rather could meet once a quarter or something to review the status of the organization, but also be on-call for immediate situations and decisions.

Frankly, I can think of a number of clubs who would be better off with this kind of a board between the team and the owner. Other owners hold the reigns much tighter, so they don't need this extra layer of bureaucracy. But at least the CBJ does.
 

Farmboy Patty

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If you guys haven't already this is an excerpt from the latest Spitting Chiclets:
-- One of the incidents took place at Babcock's house. He invited the team to a lunch and asked to look through everyone's phone. He took a look at one of the rookie's phone, flipped through some photos and then told him to leave without telling him why.

I mean that story kinda says it all doesn't it?
IMG_6344.jpeg
 

rielledup

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Can someone explain why people hate Biz so much? His frat boy language and constant sexual innuendos can be cringey sometimes but he seems like a decent guy at heart. There's probably more to it than I'm aware which is why I'm asking.
 

Peasy

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Because that’s what everyone has been doing for the last 4 years lol.

Please show me some articles etc, by any reputable source, suggesting that Babcock was fired because of the stunt he pulled on Marner or Spezza scrathing. Any insider from TSN or Sportsnet, local beatwriter or something.
It was never just one instance that led to his firing, it was a combination of a lot of shit. He lost the room, players were tuning him out. Literally the first article I click on.


"But this is clearly a signal that management -- specifically team president Brendan Shanahan and GM Kyle Dubas -- thought Babcock's message had grown stale with the players, and there needed to be a fix before the team spiraled."

On mobile so shits all scuffed.
 

Kranix

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Jenner seemed embarrassed in that Columbus media day, and almost incapable of articulating a full thought on the whole situation. He might just be camera-shy. Werenski addressed it more directly, and cogently. However, if that's true about one rookie getting basically ejected from Babs' house after his phone was poked through, the leadership would have to have discussed it and thrown support behind the player. Gaudreau and Jenner on the other hand, really came off totally disconnected, forcing themselves into neutral from a position of feeling like nothing happened. It might just come down to Werenski being a better thinker and speaker than those too, which was evident.
 

Leaf Fans

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Heard this one today, I thought it was pretty accurate.

Toxic coach
Of a toxic team
Of a toxic league
Got exposed by
A toxic host
Of a toxic podcast
On a toxic website.
Yeah, it is a headline from the Beaverton. There is a story that goes with it.


*The beaverton is a saterical newspaper similer to the Onion
 

LOFIN

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Sep 16, 2011
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It was never just one instance that led to his firing, it was a combination of a lot of shit. He lost the room, players were tuning him out. Literally the first article I click on.


"But this is clearly a signal that management -- specifically team president Brendan Shanahan and GM Kyle Dubas -- thought Babcock's message had grown stale with the players, and there needed to be a fix before the team spiraled."

On mobile so shits all scuffed.
This is literally the same thing said for all coaches fired.

After Boudreau got canned:
“Those decisions are never easy,” Allvin said in a press conference. “But at this point I felt there was needed a new voice to see if we can get this group to buy in, to play a different way.”
 

seventieslord

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Zero chance he gets the full salary.
I think we all agree on that, and I think we also all agree that he didn't get nothing. I'm still five pages behind in this thread, but if anyone has wagered a guess as to exactly how much Babcock was paid, I haven't seen it yet. This is my guess:

Full salary for the first two and a half months of his contract beginning July 1st, and then 12.5% of what he would have been paid for the remaining 21.5 months. 1.7M total.
 
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CpatainCanuck

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If you guys haven't already this is an excerpt from the latest Spitting Chiclets:

- Biz said that he got sources from several current and former Babcock players before releasing this news. Chiclets is very much a pro player podcast and they give their guests final say on what stays in the podcast so they wouldn't just say this without getting a player's approval
- One of the incidents took place at Babcock's house. He invited the team to a lunch and asked to look through everyone's phone. He took a look at one of the rookie's phone, flipped through some photos and then told him to leave without telling him why.

I mean that story kinda says it all doesn't it?
Assuming the latest claims are accurate, you have to wonder what was going on in Babcock's mind in the last few weeks. He is obviously an intelligent guy who has a proven ability to put on a facade of good character even if behind closed doors he was a sociopath. He would have known he was on thin ice and his every move would be scrutinized. So why go so clearly over the line in conduct before the season even starts?
 

Grate n Colorful Oz

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Looking back on Babs' introductory press conference, it was clear he has not changed a lick and in fact doesn't even see anything wrong with the way he's treated certain players, and I'm sure he still believes he's a victim.

When asked whether he had made the changes necessary, he took zero personal responsibility and just said "I think it's important for everyone to change" complete cop out. A dinosaur who can't adapt to modern times and is rightfully being put out to pasture


My understanding, which seems too simple and probably is, has always been essentially that psychopaths are born and sociopaths are often created by their environment (intense childhood trauma typically).

That's a false misconception that keeps being spread. Having read many prison psychiatrists (such as James Gilligan), both sociopaths and psychopaths live intense childhood traumas. The difference lies in higher predispositions to agression, violence and psychosis of the psychopaths. A psychopath IS a sociopath with the added violent psychosis.
 

fahad203

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Assuming the latest claims are accurate, you have to wonder what was going on in Babcock's mind in the last few weeks. He is obviously an intelligent guy who has a proven ability to put on a facade of good character even if behind closed doors he was a sociopath. He would have known he was on thin ice and his every move would be scrutinized. So why go so clearly over the line in conduct before the season even starts?

Because psychopaths don't think they'll get caught. Psychopaths are very smart and arrogant at the same time. He has no reason to think this will backfire, up to now it hasn't. He has gotten away with it

This is a classic trait of psychopaths. They get results, they deliver and that success gets to their head
 

Chips

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You sure he wasn't fired because the Leafs actually sucked ass? They were 9-10-4, on a 6 game losing streak, and some of those losses were quite embarrassing.

All the stuff about Marner etc, only came up after his firing.
Fair enough but it seemed people agreed he “lost the room” which seemed to happen faster than in Detroit. Behavior not inspiring confidence or motivation could have been a factor
 

Chips

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I just find it somewhat hard to believe that none of those trade requests had leaked out any point etc.

Maybe Babcock's shitty behaviour was the reason they were playing so poorly, but the fact that they were 9-10-4 and on a six game losing streak is still the main reason he got fired. Nothing else has been whispered at any point, until now, 4 years later. Yes, we heard about the shitty stuff he pulled on Marner, but at no point was it talked about as a reason for his dismissal.

But if you want to believe his management of people was the reason he got fired, then one has to applaud Dubas, Shanahan, the players, the players agents, all the rest of the coaching staff and organization, everyones family and friends, for keeping this a secret for the last 4 years.
Shanahan explicitly said that Babs’ coaching/communication style had no place in today’s game shortly after the firing now that I think about it, I read some old articles after this new story.


They don’t like drama so it makes sense they’d wait to make that comment until after it started to leak. Same reason (one of, anyway) Jarmo is trying to admit fault while staying scant on details. They wanted this season to be successful, months of media drama and question won’t be welcome by the team and they’ll project they want to move on


The closed doors thing is well know. Babs x2, Bill Peters, Kyle Beach etc. Almost always takes years for something to come out


Edit forgot how far back in the thread o was
 
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