Babcock resigning as CBJ Head Coach *Mod note, post #687*

[LOFIN]

Just because you havent heard about it doesn't mean that others havent....

Biz knew about this story likely when it was still on going but never leaked it.

What does Biz or anyone gain about leaking that a player (possibly Barrie) requested a trade? Would bring nothing but negative attention to probably all parties involved. But now that Babcock likely shot himself in the foot and will never coach in the NHL again people don't care if these stories now get out.

Like people even brought up stories from when he was in Anaheim lmao. Not sure why youre having such a hard time believing this when its coming directly some people that are friends with numerous ex and current NHLers.

I mean one would imagine that some reporter, or literally any other sources would've heard about it. We are talking about the f***ing Leafs here, the most covered hockey team on the planet.

And I don't really understand what anyone would've lost telling this story when Babcock was fired 4 years ago lol. Literally the same situation as now. Convenient that Biz (and literally everyone else related to the Leafs) have stayed quiet on the subject for 4 years.

Ya, but all that happened before his firing

Indeed. Funny then, how none of this stuff was leaking out, and we all have been under the impression for 4 straight years that his firing happened because of poor performance. Which was factual.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Go listen to what Biz said.

He straight up said "Most people think he was fired for on ice performance but really it was issues with the players."

The dude completely lost the room, people on that team did not want to play for him. Dubas had 2 players request trades on two consecutive days.

They had a designated person on the team to give rookies/new guys heads up that Babs would pull this phone shit so they could be prepared.

But sure, them playing so poorly had nothing to do with what Babcock was doin...

There was also an issue with Matthew’s wasn’t there, recall him flying to Arizona to have discussions.

 

[joestevens29]

To think a professional sports team doesn't have lawyers on retainer for situations just like this, and that it would cost them "millions" to go to court over firing Babcock, is absolute stupidity.

They likely paid out a settlement to Babcock to get this to disappear as quickly as possible. It has nothing to do with court costs or paying lawyers.

I'm torn to be honest.

On one hand there are a bunch of innocent people here that don't need this story dragging all year.

On the other this was probably not done because of that, but more worried what would actually come out if this did go to the courts.

 

[Rob Brown]

I mean one would imagine that some reporter, or literally any other sources would've heard about it. We are talking about the f***ing Leafs here, the most covered hockey team on the planet.

And I don't really understand what anyone would've lost telling this story when Babcock was fired 4 years ago lol. Literally the same situation as now. Convenient that Biz (and literally everyone else related to the Leafs) have stayed quiet on the subject for 4 years.

If you bothered to listen to today's podcast before making assumptions, you would have heard Biz say that he had no knowledge of the Leafs story until last week.

 

[Golden_Jet]

I mean one would imagine that some reporter, or literally any other sources would've heard about it. We are talking about the f***ing Leafs here, the most covered hockey team on the planet.

And I don't really understand what anyone would've lost telling this story when Babcock was fired 4 years ago lol. Literally the same situation as now. Convenient that Biz (and literally everyone else related to the Leafs) have stayed quiet on the subject for 4 years.


Indeed. Funny then, how none of this stuff was leaking out, and we all have been under the impression for 4 straight years that his firing happened because of poor performance. Which was factual.

Most players will wait til they retire to speak up, in case they end up playing for him again.
Just cause you didn’t hear it, doymean it didn’t happen.
Coaches have mentioned they were asked to see there phones.

 

[Peasy]

Babcock should have been fired from the Leafs after the 2019 playoffs due to performance but he wasn't.

Seems like ownership didnt want to eat the extra 50m or whatever so decided he would come back. They were a mess the entire year and they finally realized if we don't fire this guy then its likely going to become a lot worse.

Majority of leaf fans at the time saw that bringing back Babcock after 2019 was pointless and would end poorly.

He would do stupid shit like refuse to ever play Matthews and Marner together. In the 3 years Babcock coached them, the most Matthews and Marner played together was 3% of the time. For the season Babcock was fired in, by the end of the year Matthews and Marner played together 27% of the time.

The guy is an egotistical clown through and through.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

What I don't understand is how can you NOT know that scrolling through someone's phone is not ok? I always feel a little weird when someone hands me their phone to look at a photo. Even if it is a close friend. I make sure to only look at that one pic and not touch anything else. Then immediately hand it back. If they say "oh keep scrolling, you can see more" I'm always nervous.

To specifically ASK to do this is crazy. Maybe his intentions were 100% innocent. Doubtful, but even if they were, it shows an amazing lack of emotional intelligence. What a dumb ass.

 

[joestevens29]

I mean one would imagine that some reporter, or literally any other sources would've heard about it. We are talking about the f***ing Leafs here, the most covered hockey team on the planet.

And I don't really understand what anyone would've lost telling this story when Babcock was fired 4 years ago lol. Literally the same situation as now. Convenient that Biz (and literally everyone else related to the Leafs) have stayed quiet on the subject for 4 years.


Indeed. Funny then, how none of this stuff was leaking out, and we all have been under the impression for 4 straight years that his firing happened because of poor performance. Which was factual.

Andi Petrillo was on local radio yesterday and talked about this.

She said the problem was while you hear the story there wasn't a lot to go on other than rumors. From her standpoint she couldn't do much as it's pretty career killing going off of hearsay. Really needed someone from within to actually give you a hard quote and that wasn't happening.

She also mentioned how shitty she feel after finding out about the Franzen situation. At the time she was loving life haven't covered some NSH-DET playoff matchup only to find out later what was happening behind the scenes.

There just isn't a lot of reporters out there that investigate this kind of stuff. Given the amount of shit happening as of late maybe there will be more reporters that will push harder going forward. Ones that aren't affiliated with National TV broadcasting companies.

 

[LOFIN]

If you bothered to listen to today's podcast before making assumptions, you would have heard Biz say that he had no knowledge of the Leafs story until last week.

And if you bothered to read my post, you might have gotten the point I was making that everyone else related to the Leafs also have kept their mouth shut about this for the last 4 years. Which I find a stunning feat.

Most players will wait til they retire to speak up, in case they end up playing for him again.
Just cause you didn’t hear it, doymean it didn’t happen.
Coaches have mentioned they were asked to see there phones.

I'm not in anyway trying to say Babcock didn't pull all this shit when he was with the Leafs. It's on record he did this stuff with the phones when he was there, and also bullied Marner. I'm not disputing that. What I'm disputing is the reason he got fired, I believe it's much more likely it was done because of performance because at no point has it been reported by ANYONE, that the reason for his firing was his shitty behaviour. Biz is the first one to state it, 4 years later. No rumours before Babcock got canned, not after he got canned. Not for 4 years. I find it hard to believe.

It's really a moot point, the point of this thread is Babcocks shitty personality and behaviour, and that's indisputable. I have no real interest in continuing this argument further, I've said my piece.

 

[Peasy]

I mean one would imagine that some reporter, or literally any other sources would've heard about it. We are talking about the f***ing Leafs here, the most covered hockey team on the planet.

And I don't really understand what anyone would've lost telling this story when Babcock was fired 4 years ago lol. Literally the same situation as now. Convenient that Biz (and literally everyone else related to the Leafs) have stayed quiet on the subject for 4 years.


Indeed. Funny then, how none of this stuff was leaking out, and we all have been under the impression for 4 straight years that his firing happened because of poor performance. Which was factual.

The poor on ice performance can have a correlation to how the rest of the team felt about the guy. Theyre not always two separate things.

Just look at what went on with Sutter last year.

 

[Rob Brown]

Babcock should have been fired from the Leafs after the 2019 playoffs due to performance but he wasn't.

Seems like ownership didnt want to eat the extra 50m or whatever so decided he would come back. They were a mess the entire year and they finally realized if we don't fire this guy then its likely going to become a lot worse.

Majority of leaf fans at the time saw that bringing back Babcock after 2019 was pointless and would end poorly.

He would do stupid shit like refuse to ever play Matthews and Marner together. In the 3 years Babcock coached them, the most Matthews and Marner played together was 3% of the time. For the season Babcock was fired in, by the end of the year Matthews and Marner played together 27% of the time.

The guy is an egotistical clown through and through.

f*** me, I remember being down in games vs. Boston and in the final minutes you'd see the third or fourth line instead of Matthews, Nylander etc. It's like he was afraid to play them.

And if you bothered to read my post, you might have gotten the point I was making that everyone else related to the Leafs also have kept their mouth shut about this for the last 4 years. Which I find a stunning feat.

I did read it, you literally said 'Convenient that Biz (and literally everyone else related to the Leafs) have stayed quiet on the subject for 4 years'. Biz didn't know about it for 4 years.

 

[Guttersniped]

Babcock has much more incentive to avoid a legal battle with an extensive and highly publicized discovery process that would overwhelmingly likely pull even more skeletons out of his closet and we start getting into Hockey Canada preemptively distancing themselves from him and a slam dunk HHOF blacklist instead of just a very likely one now.

Sounds like you've never been to court. (smile)

I am 100% sure they paid him to go away because that is how business works. But, if you want to believe otherwise, that's fine with me.

Yeah, I’m going with they paid him to go away too.

This contracts are guaranteed and people simply imagine out clauses with borderline magical powers.

Even if he eventually got punished by the league for this that doesn’t mean CBJ could void his contract.

This was huge unforced error by Jarmo and JD.

Blue Jackets GM Jarmo Kekalainen has known Babcock for more than 30 years. President of hockey operations John Davidson has known him for at least that long. Hitchcock not only talked up Babcock to Davidson, he spoke directly to Babcock and helped sell him on the city.

“I have a big network,” Kekalainen said. “I’ve been doing this for a long time. I talked to people I know who are not only Hall of Fame hockey people but Hall of Fame people, with character. Those conversations are really important to me. They’re trustworthy people who I have a really good relationship with, and all of the feedback from people who have worked with Mike Babcock for years — a lot closer that I got to know him — were positive. Everybody says Mike’s a great coach, but more importantly they said he’s a really good person. That was basically unanimous from everybody I trust that I spoke with.”

Wow, I guess Babs lying to face must have been a shocker after all those Hall of Fame people vouched for the abusive shit heel.

 

[joestevens29]

Just because you havent heard about it doesn't mean that others havent....

Biz knew about this story likely when it was still on going but never leaked it.

What does Biz or anyone gain about leaking that a player (possibly Barrie) requested a trade? Would bring nothing but negative attention to probably all parties involved. But now that Babcock likely shot himself in the foot and will never coach in the NHL again people don't care if these stories now get out.

Like people even brought up stories from when he was in Anaheim lmao. Not sure why youre having such a hard time believing this when its coming directly some people that are friends with numerous ex and current NHLers.

Especially if Barrie told Biz please don't make this public.

 

[LOFIN]

I did read it, you literally said 'Convenient that Biz (and literally everyone else related to the Leafs) have stayed quiet on the subject for 4 years'. Biz didn't know about it for 4 years.

Yeah, my bad. I forgot to add the "/or" after "and".

 

[LOFIN]

Wow, I guess Babs lying to face must have been a shocker after all those Hall of Fame people vouched for the abusive shit heel.

I mean all of that could be true and factual. It seems pretty obvious, that Babcock treats people in different situations very differently.

A veteran, good player, a colleague, a superior, or someone else he likes? Treated with respect and warmth. A young player, a less skilled, borderline NHLer, a player he doesn't really like for some other reason? Treated like garbage. Pretty sure that's the reason for this type of stuff. If JK talks to say Yzerman, his view of Babcock as a coach and a person is very different to say Frank Corrado.

Which some say is lack of due diligence, but also human behaviour. If you ask a 60 year old white male how he feels about some things in society, his answer is going to be very different from a 20 year old black female. In all likelihood. And if you're a 50 year old white male, in most circumstances the former is probably the person you are more likely to ask.

 

[BlazingBlueAnt]

Imagine inviting (especially a young player) someone to lunch at your house. Demanding they hand over their phone for you to snoop through, and then kicking them out without even feeding them.

That's far, far, far, far x1000 beyond any possible misunderstanding some people are trying to claim. He's a sociopath

 

[SeanMoneyHands]

Babcock to CLB was too good to be true. Why would Mike want to go to Columbus of all places? It's not like the city just reeks championships.

 

[ORRFForever]

Wow, I guess Babs lying to face must have been a shocker after all those Hall of Fame people vouched for the abusive shit heel.

I wonder if there's a study that shows abusive bosses get more out of their employees that kind supportive bosses? God knows, companies usually go with the former - the boss who makes the lives of their employees hell, so there must be some method to their madness.

 

[mobilus]

Michael Biehn talking about the credited director from Tombstone:

 

[ORRFForever]

He's a sociopath

What's the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath? - sincere question.

 

[Jared Dunn]

Looking back on Babs' introductory press conference, it was clear he has not changed a lick and in fact doesn't even see anything wrong with the way he's treated certain players, and I'm sure he still believes he's a victim.

When asked whether he had made the changes necessary, he took zero personal responsibility and just said "I think it's important for everyone to change" complete cop out. A dinosaur who can't adapt to modern times and is rightfully being put out to pasture

What's the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath? - sincere question.

My understanding, which seems too simple and probably is, has always been essentially that psychopaths are born and sociopaths are often created by their environment (intense childhood trauma typically).

 

[Peasy]

I wonder if there's a study that shows abusive bosses get more out of their employees that kind supportive bosses? God knows, companies usually go with the former - the boss who makes the lives of their employees hell, so there must be some method to their madness.

Or people just put up with it in the past because thats what they were taught to do but times are changing. People don't feel like being treated like shit from their superiors anymore and are more willing to put their foot down.

Theres still room in hockey to be a hardass coach (just look at Torts), but if youre shit human on top of that and dont respect people then you will have a much more difficult time making it through todays social climate.

Personally, I will give a lot more effort for someone I respect and that respects me than someone that doesnt.

 

[mobilus]

 

[Golden_Jet]

I wonder if there's a study that shows abusive bosses get more out of their employees that kind supportive bosses? God knows, companies usually go with the former - the boss who makes the lives of their employees hell, so there must be some method to their madness.

Disagree, you get more from kind, supportive boss than an abusive boss as you put it.

 

[Barnum]

I wonder if there's a study that shows abusive bosses get more out of their employees that kind supportive bosses? God knows, companies usually go with the former - the boss who makes the lives of their employees hell, so there must be some method to their madness.

Yes, there are studies, plenty of them. Leading through fear, intimidation and abuse can (important word) led to very high short term production but it’s temporary and always short lived. In the end, leading in an abusive manner costs more money, loss of employees and diminished returns.

In my line of work, fear tactics work but we work 90day contracts with varying start dates so you usually are not stuck with dickheads for 90days. Me, when I was going through the ranks, I learned to not be a shithead boss because I remembered how awful it was living through it.