Babcock fired by the Leafs discussion

[Warden of the North]

The further we get away from Babcock the more I dislike him.

He was holding this team back and his petty decisions look more absurd each and every game.

 

[Egghead1999]

Man the chain reaction from Petan blowing a wide open net continues.

No love for the flower

Anyway, another “two-person” coach is Marc Crawford (Summer-Craw / Winter-Craw). My point is that most of the stuff are open secrets. Why all come out now?

 

[IPS]

The further we get away from Babcock the more I dislike him.

He was holding this team back and his petty decisions look more absurd each and every game.

It's almost like he was coaching the team to cater specifically to what he likes to see rather then what suits the roster best.

 

[Teeder Keon]

Former Red Wing Darren McCarty says Mike Babcock cost Detroit the Stanley Cup in 2009

I would be very interested to hear what more McCarty has to say

 

[DopeyFish]

I'm just gonna leave this here. This article from when the Leafs hired Babcock is the reason the Leafs fired Babcock

Exploring Mike Babcock's Systems | Maple Leafs Hotstove

Babcock quite clearly forgot what made him successful and why the Leafs hired him in the first place.

“We’d like not to dump the puck at all. The bottom line is the game’s real simple, the more time you spend in your zone, the less time you spend in their zone, the more time you dump the puck because you got no speed on the rush. If you’re efficient coming out and move the puck and you do it right once, you’re coming with speed, you don’t have to dump the puck, you probably get some sort of entry, or at least you give up possession and get it right back.” – Mike Babcock

“Dumping the puck is awful when you’re just dumping it in and changing,” Babcock continued. “Just dump and change, dump and change, you spend the whole game in your own zone wearing yourself out. Our focus is try not to do that and yet there’s parts of the game every night you’re in a bit of a survival mode and you do that.”

 

[ShaneFalco]

I would be very interested to hear what more McCarty has to say

It's too bad they kept him around especially after last year's playoffs. Playing PM as much as he did, the stars not as much as he should have, the over the top line matching etc etc
Just a bad fit for this team and management should have done something about it

 

[Durrr]

I would be very interested to hear what more McCarty has to say

Yeah that article doesn't actually expand on how he cost them a championship, just that Babs is a terrible person, which we all knew at this point.

 

[Teeder Keon]

It's too bad they kept him around especially after last year's playoffs. Playing PM as much as he did, the stars not as much as he should have, the over the top line matching etc etc
Just a bad fit for this team and management should have done something about it

Keeping him / firing him certainly was a conundrum without a doubt ...
The whole situation
Babcock being hired by Shanny
Shannys loyalty
Long term
Dubas taking over
Different philosophy
Couldn’t do what he wanted
Team succeeding initially despite of it all
So many moving parts
It certainly stunted their overall plan
At least it’s done now , but I hope fans don’t think that it will turnaround immediately and long term yet
They might even miss the post season and come back next year and have a terrific season and playoff run

 

[Durrr]

Keeping him / firing him certainly was a conundrum without a doubt ...
The whole situation
Babcock being hired by Shanny
Shannys loyalty
Long term
Dubas taking over
Different philosophy
Couldn’t do what he wanted
Team succeeding initially despite of it all
So many moving parts
It certainly stunted their overall plan
At least it’s done now , but I hope fans don’t think that it will turnaround immediately and long term yet
They might even miss the post season and come back next year and have a terrific season and playoff run

It goes beyond Shanny, Babs was good friends with the 30% owner of the entire team. Imagine calling a board meeting and facing Tananbaum and telling him you want to fire his friend, who was still owned 30~ million, after the Leaf's just made the post season and lost in game 7 to the eastern finalists.

 

[Teeder Keon]

It goes beyond Shanny, Babs was good friends with the 30% owner of the entire team. Imagine calling a board meeting and facing Tananbaum and telling him you want to fire his friend, who was still owned 30~ million, after the Leaf's just made the post season and lost in game 7 to the eastern finalists.

Yes for sure add that to the top of the list

 

[TheProspector]

I'm just gonna leave this here. This article from when the Leafs hired Babcock is the reason the Leafs fired Babcock

Exploring Mike Babcock's Systems | Maple Leafs Hotstove

Babcock quite clearly forgot what made him successful and why the Leafs hired him in the first place.

This is absolutely nuts. And it reminds us why we were excited for Babcock to come onboard. And it's absolutely impossible to reconcile with how the team systems ended up.

 

[HomerJLeafs]

I'm just gonna leave this here. This article from when the Leafs hired Babcock is the reason the Leafs fired Babcock

Exploring Mike Babcock's Systems | Maple Leafs Hotstove

Babcock quite clearly forgot what made him successful and why the Leafs hired him in the first place.

is it possible that he did not forget what made him successful but his whole thing became this anti-dubas anti-matthews mess?
like he wanted to win the power struggle vs Dubas/Matthews?
and it became more important than winning games?
his ego made him crazy?

 

[Jimmy Firecracker]

is it possible that he did not forget what made him successful but his whole thing became this anti-dubas anti-matthews mess?
like he wanted to win the power struggle vs Dubas/Matthews?
and it became more important than winning games?
his ego made him crazy?

Wouldn’t shock me. Seems like the majority of his decisions were based around his ego and doing things his way above all else.

 

[Joey Hoser]

It's almost like he was coaching the team to cater specifically to what he likes to see rather then what suits the roster best.

Almost?

He told Tyson Barrie that he has to re-invent himself.

 

[zeke]

I'm just gonna leave this here. This article from when the Leafs hired Babcock is the reason the Leafs fired Babcock

Exploring Mike Babcock's Systems | Maple Leafs Hotstove

Babcock quite clearly forgot what made him successful and why the Leafs hired him in the first place.

It's so crazy.

But its not the first time that this market has driven a coach insane.

 

[Joey Hoser]

It's so crazy.

But its not the first time that this market has driven a coach insane.

Hanta Yo!

 

[zeke]

is it possible that he did not forget what made him successful but his whole thing became this anti-dubas anti-matthews mess?
like he wanted to win the power struggle vs Dubas/Matthews?
and it became more important than winning games?
his ego made him crazy?

Definitely possible. Maybe even probable. He sabotaged himself out of pure ego.

 

[zeke]

Hanta Yo!

Good one, Randy...I mean Joey.

 

[hockeywiz542]

The knives were out for Mike Babcock long before the Leafs cut ties | The Star

It would take a while to get to the firing, but it was perhaps inevitable. There were already questions about line deployment, ice time for top players, using grinders instead of skilled players, and goaltending: from playing Frederik Andersen too much, to using him too little.

So on May 6, when Dubas said he was “all in” on Babcock keeping his job, few believed him. The knives were out. It was more or less a waiting game. And the game may have been rigged, with a slow start to the season the excuse Dubas needed to make the change.

The Star has subsequently learned that Dubas had wanted Sheldon Keefe to coach the Leafs for some time, and even suggested Keefe to club president Brendan Shanahan before Babcock was hired in 2015.

Dubas had hired Keefe in 2012 to coach the OHL’s Soo Greyhounds, and in 2015 to handle the AHL’s Marlies.

Dubas and Keefe clearly see the game the same way: Let highly skilled players be creative. Mix and match lines. Play Morgan Rielly and Tyson Barrie together? Oh my.

Babcock was stubborn and had his own ideas: He loved to grind out wins. He needed stay-at-home types, guys who’d be tough along the wall and in front of the net.

Despite a very public disparity between how Dubas wants a team built and how Babcock likes a team to play, Babcock kept his job to start the season. But suddenly the world the Leafs inhabited was no longer calm and predictable, as it had been under Lou Lamoriello.

In Dubas’s time as GM — he’s now into his second full season — there has been massive change.

 

[Warden of the North]

Suggesting that Dubas rigged the team to be poor as an excuse to fire the coach ia absurd.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Thanks for bringing this thread back to the top. I just want to say I'm so glad he's gone.

 

[Pookie]

Suggesting that Dubas rigged the team to be poor as an excuse to fire the coach ia absurd.

I didn’t read it that way. (Though it might explain the back up goalie).

I just read it that both stuck to their guns, both knew it wasn’t ideal and would end one way. Just a matter of who would be let go.

If Dubas wanted to support Babcock’s vision, he would have signed different players.

If Babcock wanted to support Dubas’ vision, he would have played the players where they were intended to play (Barrie on the PP or Spezza, etc).

Babcock probably felt emboldened by his contract and Shanahan’s support. Though should have had an eyebrow raised when Lou and Hunter were forced out.

Totally true that the losing streak was the opportunity Dubas pounced on. We’ve had losing streaks before.

Can’t say I blame him either. He believes in his vision and is trying to make a name for himself too. Might as well have a structure that supports you.

 

[Cor]

Suggesting that Dubas rigged the team to be poor as an excuse to fire the coach ia absurd.

All Dubas did was continue building the team to his vision. As that happened more, the more it became clear Babcock was not the coach for the vision.

That’s doing your job as GM. Building the team, and playing the waiting game until you get the permission to bring in the coach that bests suits it.

 

[Man Bear Pig]

It's almost like he was coaching the team to cater specifically to what he likes to see rather then what suits the roster best.

That's pretty much the definition of Babcock. It never seemed to matter what the score was, he was never going to change things. I'm not even sure that Keefes system is any better but he recognizes when to mix the lines and when to play certain lines. Babcock was stuck in his ways. Matthews and Marner together was blasphemy. Babs was a pretty dumb coach at times.

 

[Warden of the North]

All Dubas did was continue building the team to his vision. As that happened more, the more it became clear Babcock was not the coach for the vision.

That’s doing your job as GM. Building the team, and playing the waiting game until you get the permission to bring in the coach that bests suits it.

Oh I agree. Heres the quote im referring too

And the game may have been rigged, with a slow start to the season the excuse Dubas needed to make the change

Am I reading this too literally too early on a Monday?