Babcock fired by the Leafs discussion

[FlareKnight]

Is the Franzen story supposed to be disturbing? Or are we suddenly pretending that we never knew that coaches yelled at their players? As if we thought guys like Tortorella or Hitchcock weren't yelling at their players at times. Wasn't that the whole thing between the hard line coaches and the players coach concepts? Are we now suddenly shocked that some players might have negative reactions or breakdowns to being chewed out?

It sucks for Franzen that he went through that. But it shouldn't be remotely shocking.

Babcock will need to be more careful in his next job. But I have no doubt he's back and coaching in the NHL within a year unless he just wants a nice vacation while being paid richly to do so.

 

[Punch Drunk Loov]

Is the Franzen story supposed to be disturbing? Or are we suddenly pretending that we never knew that coaches yelled at their players? As if we thought guys like Tortorella or Hitchcock weren't yelling at their players at times. Wasn't that the whole thing between the hard line coaches and the players coach concepts? Are we now suddenly shocked that some players might have negative reactions or breakdowns to being chewed out?

It sucks for Franzen that he went through that. But it shouldn't be remotely shocking.

Babcock will need to be more careful in his next job. But I have no doubt he's back and coaching in the NHL within a year unless he just wants a nice vacation while being paid richly to do so.

I think what I find disturbing is the notion that Babcock knew Franzen was vulnerable and knowingly used that to verbally abuse him. "Verbal abuse" is explaining more vicious wording than simply yelling at someone.

The second thing is that this tactic was described as only scratching the surface.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I think what I find disturbing is the notion that Babcock knew Franzen was vulnerable and knowingly used that to verbally abuse him.

The second thing is that this tactic was described as only scratching the surface.

Probably don't scream at people who got concussed multiple times recently trying to make your system look better than the dumpster fire it really is.

 

[Carltons Cup]

If you guys think Babcock and Bowman were bad and tough on players.....

then Mike Keenan says hello.

 

[al secord]

If you guys think Babcock and Bowman were bad and tough on players.....

then Mike Keenan says hello.

If you're exiled in Siberia, does anyone actually hear you say "hello?"

 

[IPS]

Now we know why the Leafs had to trade Kessel the moment Babcock was hired. I always assumed it was because Babcock knew about Kessel's poor work ethic and refused to coach him for that reason, but I think the reality is that Babcock knew Kessel is one of the few players around who will talk back to the coach and refuse to let himself be dicked around.

No doubt it would have been an instant divide in the locker room. No doubt more than a few players would have taken Kessel's side too.

 

[Carltons Cup]

If you're exiled in Siberia, does anyone actually hear you say "hello?"

Most likely, yes. Putin and Russia (and associates) can hear anyone, anywhere, anytime....

 

[CelticDruid]

Probably don't scream at people who got concussed multiple times recently trying to make your system look better than the dumpster fire it really is.

Franzen should not have been playing at all.
He was terrified of getting hit again.

Four severe concussions later with the last one really messing him up badly.

The NHL, and the Detroit Red Wings organization bear a lot of responsibility.


PTSD lingers for a long time and will take you down to the darkest pits of depression.
He was obviously a basket case and should have never been near a rink.

 

[Craig Button]

If you guys think Babcock and Bowman were bad and tough on players.....

then Mike Keenan says hello.

 

[Clark4Ever]

I mean...the guy coached for almost two decades.

I'd be shocked if he DIDN'T pick up any enemies or a couple of shameful stories along the way.

Yawn.

As long as he's not coaching us that's goood enough for me. Leave the man in peace otherwise.

The thing is, it's not the Toronto market that is trying to demonize him at this point.

This is a classic case of someone's past coming back to haunt them.

 

[fahad203]

Keenan, Torts are very tough on their players. But they absolutely love them both

You knew exactly where you stood with them. There was no backhand slap, passive aggressive BS, no indirect comment

Keenan/ Torts would have told their players of straight in their face. No go through a medium like Babs did with Ovie's comment

Keenan had a lot of BS tactics himself, they wouldn't work in today's game. Hence why he's no longer coaching

Torts, his team absolutely loves him. You think Ovie says stuff like that against the Leafs and gets away if Torts was a the Coach?

He would have ripped Ovie apart like he did to Thornton

 

[Al14]

If you're exiled in Siberia, does anyone actually hear you say "hello?"

Don't polar bears have ears?

 

[Slyfox]

How did Shanahan hire him and continue to want to keep him this summer knowing about his past? We should've let him go last year

 

[Semantics]

But can he actully mean everything that he's said about mental health, all the support he has given to bell lets talk, can he actually want to end the stigma against mental while also causing Frazenn to have a mental breakdown?

I don't know, I know that it works that way.

I guess it's possible it's something he did in Detroit, regreted and hw became an advocate for mental health, although that seems unlikely.

Since when have sociopaths ever cared about being consistent in their behavior? If anything, he probably is such a strong advocate for mental health BECAUSE it helps him overlook his horrible behavior. It's like people who say all kinds of racist shit but then claim they're not racist because they have black friends. Or politicians who claim to be men of the people but slash taxes on the rich and kill food stamps. Some of the most horrible people go to church every week and support charities. The fact they do a lot of nice things makes them feel like good people despite the bad behavior.

 

[Al14]

How did Shanahan hire him and continue to want to keep him this summer knowing about his past? We should've let him go last year

It's also unconscionable that Shanahan didn't fire Babcock for his treatment of Marner. You can't tell me that this happened in the locker room without upper management not finding out about it.

I'm pretty sure Paul Marner at least told Dubas about it!

Shanahan's employment should be in jeopardy too!

 

[al secord]

Don't polar bears have ears?

As do the majority of deaf people.

 

[Al14]

As do the majority of deaf people.

Is it still politically correct to call them deaf people? Hearing impaired maybe?

 

[the squared circle]

LOL at Gino. Man, i miss those days.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Why are you deliberately understating it? No one has come out to defend Babcock, it's pretty clear that it isn't "losing your temper", it's a consistent repeated pattern over a decade.

If your boss screams at you every day and your only options are to retire or sit and forego pay while the guy enabling your boss considers moving you across the continent, what are you going to do that's worse and doesn't land you in jail?

If I was a professional athlete making millions, I think I’d be able to handle a coach yelling at me sometimes. For heavens sake... it’s amazing I had to even write that sentence.

Of course, physically assaulting players and shouting racial slurs clearly cross that line. But there are no accusations of Babcock doing either.

 

[leaffaninvancouver]

Babcock not only knew, he actively targeted that when he went after Franzén.

That’s messed up then. I don’t lay the blame just on Babcock though, what were the GM and medical staff doing? Not too mentioned what were his agent and NHLPA rep doing during this?

 

[Slyfox]

It's also unconscionable that Shanahan didn't fire Babcock for his treatment of Marner. You can't tell me that this happened in the locker room without upper management not finding out about it.

I'm pretty sure Paul Marner at least told Dubas about it!

Shanahan's employment should be in jeopardy too!

For sure. Shanny would've known about his past issues in Detroit and still hired him. I would like Dubas to have full control as it seems he's still restricted

 

[Martin Skoula]

If I was a professional athlete making millions, I think I’d be able to handle a coach yelling at me sometimes. For heavens sake... it’s amazing I had to even write that sentence.

Of course, physically assaulting players and shouting racial slurs clearly cross that line. But there are no accusations of Babcock doing either.

You can barely handle an anonymous forum lol.

Consider that all these hardened veteran players are coming out to specifically call out Babcock and not any of their other coaches. No one has stood up to defend his methods. Maybe Babcock is actually a bad person who regularly crossed the line with vulnerable players? Maybe you don't have to defend him this desperately?

 

[nsleaf]

I'm pretty sure there's less actually which is a direct result of the positive change society is undergoing.

Today's society is way more litigious than it has ever been. Everyone it seems is a victim of something.

 

[Teeder Keon]

I wonder what lurks and goes bump in the night in Mike Keenan’s past and presents world .......
Could be very very scary ......

 

[Gary Nylund]

If I was a professional athlete making millions, I think I’d be able to handle a coach yelling at me sometimes. For heavens sake... it’s amazing I had to even write that sentence.

Of course, physically assaulting players and shouting racial slurs clearly cross that line. But there are no accusations of Babcock doing either.

Yelling and mental abuse are two completely different thing. For heavens sake... it’s amazing I had to even write that sentence.

By talking about mental abuse as if it was just "yelling", you're trivializing the issue and I find it rather depressing that there are people like you who are still doing so.