Babcock fired by the Leafs discussion

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I'm sure there are players whose careers were ended based on those coach's decisions. They probably consider those coach's the worst person they ever met. I mean, their careers were ruined. But only in Toronto is dirty laundry aired out to such an extent.
As soon as the Marner story broke, and the hate from Commodore and the other bumb Fraser ... every journalist with a phone started calling Babcock's ex-players looking to rip him down more.

Does he deserve it? I dunno, nobody knows to what extent Babs was actually shredding Franzen. The guy was nicknamed Moose ffs, and Babs still had him terrified of going to the rink each day, imagine that?

Along with alot of other posters in here I despised Babs and his arrogant ways since shortly after the big 3's rookie year when he still hasn't tried Marner-Matthews together even once and had Matthews playing 2nd line PP duties #LordHaveMercyHowDumbIsThat
 
Most of the players "exposing" coachers are some of the biggest A-holes the league has ever seen. Specifically Avery and Chelios.

If a player had a lung disease he would be considered medically unfit to play. You wouldn't clear him to play and then blame the coach for abusing him with endurance workouts.

If a grown man is suffering from mental illness he may be unfit for that environment and shouldn't have been on the bench. It's not on the coach to assume his player is suffering from CTE or PTSD. If people are gonna talk about how bad and abusive it was they should be giving specifics.
 
As soon as the Marner story broke, and the hate from Commodore and the other bumb Fraser ... every journalist with a phone started calling Babcock's ex-players looking to rip him down more.

Does he deserve it? I dunno, nobody knows to what extent Babs was actually shredding Franzen. The guy was nicknamed Moose ffs, and Babs still had him terrified of going to the rink each day, imagine that?

Along with alot of other posters in here I despised Babs and his arrogant ways since shortly after the big 3's rookie year when he still hasn't tried Marner-Matthews together even once and had Matthews playing 2nd line PP duties #LordHaveMercyHowDumbIsThat

Franzen supposedly suffers from anxiety issues, I wonder if Babcock knew that at the time. If he did he deserves a lot of scorn, if he didn’t then I’m not sure he deserves being singled out. That would be a failing of the entire Red Wings medical staff.

Edit.

Babcock’s coaching strategy is interesting, if it was that rough and players are starting to speak up on it, is it fair to judge him based on what was acceptable? Bowman is the greatest coach of all time and he was supposedly a nightmare to play for. I think we should be pushing people to be better and learn to adapt , but going through his past to find what was “acceptable” behaviour at that time and holding him accountable now isn’t really fair either.

It reminds me of when people complain about shows like Friends are anti LBGT, sure today it is but it wasn’t back then. I think it actually had the first prime time gay wedding even but some people insist it’s bad and refuse to acknowledge that what society deems appropriate changes.
 
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What Babcock did to Franzen really disturbs me. Ironic that he fights for mental health!
Of all the things in this whole saga, this is the one that really gets to me. I'm fine otherwise just saying that he was an asshole and a brutal leader and then leave it like that. Just leave him in the rear view mirror and not think on it any more. The idea of him advocating mental health and then going to the rink to mentally break players though... That's the behavior of a sociopath.

Franzen supposedly suffers from anxiety issues, I wonder if Babcock knew that at the time. If he did he deserves a lot of scorn, if he didn’t then I’m not sure he deserves being singled out. That would be a failing of the entire Red Wings medical staff.
Babcock not only knew, he actively targeted that when he went after Franzén.

Babcock’s coaching strategy is interesting, if it was that rough and players are starting to speak up on it, is it fair to judge him based on what was acceptable? Bowman is the greatest coach of all time and he was supposedly a nightmare to play for. I think we should be pushing people to be better and learn to adapt , but going through his past to find what was “acceptable” behaviour at that time and holding him accountable now isn’t really fair either.
Just want to touch on this because you are absolutely right. Humanity evolves through different stages of ignorance. Judging individuals by their inability to see through that ignorance on their own is just not fair.

I'm not sure that includes Babcock though. Let's compare him with Bowman. Bowman was extremely hard on his players and pushed them to their limits, but his actions and behavior was designed to maximize what he got out of them in a rather militant manner. As such, while tons of players actively disliked him, he was also universally respected. Success has a lot to do with that, of course, but I think it was also because everybody knew it was about the on-ice results. Babcock on the other hand... some of the things that have come out and that I've heard since the firing has absolutely nothing to do with getting more out of his players. They are plain cruel and often to a detrimental effect. Franzén barely touched the surface of what Babcock did against him, and there was just never any chance of anything good coming out of that. And to connect it all, I don't think any of this would be accepted at any point in recent history.
 
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The players speaking out about the coaches is the first step.
Now the NHL has a big part to play on zero tolerance.
What happens next? Are we going to see the coaches sign with another team down the road? Will the NHL accept/allow this or are these coaches done?
Do they need to enter a rehab program to be certified? Is that something that should be instituted at the NHL level? A coaching certification that includes ethics management before you can be an NHL coach? Let's see.
 
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How about just treat people with respect and dignity?

Nobody really knows what the person across from us is going through.

Babcock loved to talk the talk but look at how he treated his hockey family.

I can still hear him saying "He's a good man...."

What makes a good man Mike? Tell me you ****ing hypocrite coward.
Or how about respecting players who actually played in the NHL
BABCOCK gets outcoached in the playoffs
Still what he did to marner was bad and very childish almost
No player will trust him again
Especially stars on long term
 
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And those 4 coached in Toronto yet only poor Babs is getting picked on by these softies. Riiiiiiiight.
Those coaches are all in rather unique situations to be fair. Quinn has been dead for half a decade, Wilson hasn't coached since he left Toronto, so its doubtful anyone will say anything about them now. Its said that Maurice adapted and evolved as a players coach over the years. Randy Carlyle? I don't know, there is that video of him mocking Bozak at Kessel and him not being thrilled by it, obviously not the same as what other coaches are being accused of, but there's that. There are still stories being told about Mike Keenan and how hard he was but no one really says anything about it and he was probably worse than Babcock. And no I'm not defending Babcock
 
Echoing what others have already said, the Marner story was angering. This Franzen story is straight up disturbing. Not only is the reported incident a shock, but it only being "the tip of the iceberg" paint a pretty ugly picture.
 
So far, and I know it is extremely early, they won one game on a adrenaline, Freddie stole a game where they only played one period and then they shelled a doormat. With the Sabres game today I am not seeing a huge turnaround yet. They are still basically playing sloppy, inconsistent hockey like they did under Babs which is still on the players. Leafs backup goalies really owe the club a decent f#ing start, this is beyond pathetic.

I know Marner back will change things but they are hardly a depleted lineup and have the danglers to absorb his absence, at least short term. Dubas has not made a good call on a goalie yet, so maybe he needs some help in that area. Seriously, no sarcasm. I see the logic in the moves he has made (or hasn't) but since none have worked out, what's the next step? I thought it was probably time for Babs to go since the team was in quicksand and KD had apparently decided no adjustments, but there is little sign so far the coaching change has been the the silver bullet. The scorers are happier but nobody wants to play defense.

I won't pile on Keefe because I have always put the bulk of the responsibility for losing on the players, so maybe a few more games drives a new message through. So I will pile on Dubas a bit more. Four games under a new coach and two pretty weak efforts. "Oh the coach has lost the room". Get them a damn backup, do your job! Louis f#ing Domingue, how hard is that? I actually like this lineup a lot but some players maybe have to be moved to address some gaps, including the cap squeeze. If Keefe is seriously your guy, then go out there and get him whatever the **** he asks for.

“I won’t pile on Keefe”

why the f*** would you :laugh::huh:
 
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Every day we seem to hear stories coming out about different coaches.
Going to be a lot of vacancies very soon, some of you may want to sharpen up the resumes.
 
What Babcock did to Franzen really disturbs me. Ironic that he fights for mental health!

That's why I question if that story is true because Babcock has been a very strong advocate for mental health so this story makes no sense
 
Most of the players "exposing" coachers are some of the biggest A-holes the league has ever seen. Specifically Avery and Chelios.

If a player had a lung disease he would be considered medically unfit to play. You wouldn't clear him to play and then blame the coach for abusing him with endurance workouts.

If a grown man is suffering from mental illness he may be unfit for that environment and shouldn't have been on the bench. It's not on the coach to assume his player is suffering from CTE or PTSD. If people are gonna talk about how bad and abusive it was they should be giving specifics.

Or Babcock could treat his players like human beings and not verbally attack them like a lunatic.
 
That's why I question if that story is true because Babcock has been a very strong advocate for mental health so this story makes no sense

I think Mike Babcock at the arena and Mike Babcock away from the arena are two different people.
 
I think Mike Babcock at the arena and Mike Babcock away from the arena are two different people.

But can he actully mean everything that he's said about mental health, all the support he has given to bell lets talk, can he actually want to end the stigma against mental while also causing Frazenn to have a mental breakdown?

I don't know, I don't know I don't think it works that way.

I guess it's possible it's something he did in Detroit, regreted and he became an advocate for mental health, although that seems unlikely.
 
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How long until the coaches start dishing out some dirt on these players? I’m sure there is one hell of a lot of dirt to go around.

You understand there's a huge difference between "my boss repeatedly beat me and yelled at me about a mental illness in front of my coworkers" and "player X came to practice high once", right?
 
I mean...the guy coached for almost two decades.

I'd be shocked if he DIDN'T pick up any enemies or a couple of shameful stories along the way.

Yawn.

As long as he's not coaching us that's goood enough for me. Leave the man in peace otherwise.
 
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You understand there's a huge difference between "my boss repeatedly beat me and yelled at me about a mental illness in front of my coworkers" and "player X came to practice high once", right?
Dirt is dirt. If the worse anyone can find on Babcock is he forced Marner to make a list and yelled at Franzen... I mean... I’m sure there’s far worse dirt on some of the players.

Im willing to bet that every member of the outrage mob have done worse things than losing their temper and shouting at someone.
 
Dirt is dirt. If the worse anyone can find on Babcock is he forced Marner to make a list and yelled at Franzen... I mean... I’m sure there’s far worse dirt on some of the players.

Im willing to bet that every member of the outrage mob have done worse things than losing their temper and shouting at someone.

Why are you deliberately understating it? No one has come out to defend Babcock, it's pretty clear that it isn't "losing your temper", it's a consistent repeated pattern over a decade.

If your boss screams at you every day and your only options are to retire or sit and forego pay while the guy enabling your boss considers moving you across the continent, what are you going to do that's worse and doesn't land you in jail?
 

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