Babcock fired by the Leafs discussion

[Semantics]

Now we know why the Leafs had to trade Kessel the moment Babcock was hired. I always assumed it was because Babcock knew about Kessel's poor work ethic and refused to coach him for that reason, but I think the reality is that Babcock knew Kessel is one of the few players around who will talk back to the coach and refuse to let himself be dicked around.

 

[Marshy]

Babcock's resume is very good

Babcock's a prick and difficult to play for

We all know it but if playing for him is bringing you to tears and emotional breakdowns I get the feeling there an underlying issue beyond just coaching

By coaching do you mean teaching and motivating or do you mean berating and shaming. Mind games and turning players against each other? Because that's what Babcock did. Is that a coach to you? A mentor? f*** me.

 

[Kiwi]

Thankfully it looks to be coming to an end. Or at least the wheels have been put in motion to get all kinds of abuse out of professional sports.

Amateur sports (specifically hockey in Canada) have implemented a zero tolerance abuse and bullying policy.

Disciplinarians who are tough to play for and like will still get hired at higher levels if they get results

Players will also put up with a lot of **** if they get success and personal accolades

 

[Marshy]

Disciplinarians who are tough to play for and like will still get hired at higher levels if they get results

Players will also put up with a lot of **** if they get success and personal accolades

Players are doing the opposite. They are coming out in condemnation of abusers. I applaud them. They are courageous.

 

[Riellyfan04]

Lol cant believe i was such a big babcock fan.. This guy was evil. Hope he never gets a job again

 

[Kiwi]

By coaching do you mean teaching and motivating or do you mean berating and shaming. Mind games and turning players against each other? Because that's what Babcock did. Is that a coach to you? A mentor? **** me.

Who said he's supposed to be a mentor? He's the coach not the players father's

If berating and shaming works and makes some guys play better where's the problem? he's there to get results not be everybody's best friend

He turned players careers around when he got here and had surprisingly good results early in his tenure so let's not pretend this stuff doesn't have motivational benefits for some players

 

[likecheese]

Babcock's resume is very good

Babcock's a prick and difficult to play for

We all know it but if playing for him is bringing you to tears and emotional breakdowns I get the feeling there an underlying issue beyond just coaching

Yes, it's an underlying issue to some people. I don't mean to be snippy to you but congrats for realising this. I had an on-the-job instructor that told me how he needed to handle different people differently. It's nice that you're tough enough but some people grow up in abusive households and have great trouble dealing with that. But hey, Babcock's the mental health dick, he knows all this, right?

 

[Kiwi]

Players are doing the opposite. They are coming out in condemnation of abusers. I applaud them. They are courageous.

Depends on what you want to define as "abuse" that can be extremely objective

I class his behavior with Marner as borderline but the other stuff?

I'm pretty ambivalent about it

 

[RoadWarrior]

Who said he's supposed to be a mentor? He's the coach not the players father's

If berating and shaming works and makes some guys play better where's the problem? he's there to get results not be everybody's best friend

He turned players careers around when he got here and had surprisingly good results early in his tenure so let's not pretend this stuff doesn't have motivational benefits for some players

Berating and shaming players with post concussion syndrome is about as useful as kicking a dead horse. Let’s put it this way it says a lot more about Babcock than it does about Franzen who was a playoff warrior.

 

[Marshy]

Who said he's supposed to be a mentor? He's the coach not the players father's

If berating and shaming works and makes some guys play better where's the problem? he's there to get results not be everybody's best friend

He turned players careers around when he got here and had surprisingly good results early in his tenure so let's not pretend this stuff doesn't have motivational benefits for some players

So the ends justify the means right?


Hey my wife cleaned a better house and didn't put supper on the table late after I tore her down a few strips.


Come on man listen to yourself. Results all that matter? There are peoples lives being f***ed with here by those in power. That is NOT ok however you want to spin it.

 

[ShaneFalco]

Who said he's supposed to be a mentor? He's the coach not the players father's

If berating and shaming works and makes some guys play better where's the problem? he's there to get results not be everybody's best friend

He turned players careers around when he got here and had surprisingly good results early in his tenure so let's not pretend this stuff doesn't have motivational benefits for some players

Wow

 

[Throw More Waffles]

You are a puzzle.

Your voice is amongst those that feel he was a terrible coach, motivator and all around person.

Yet the player you called the heart and soul of the team.... many, many...... many.... times, got traded this offseason.

His reaction? He was devastated. Bummed out. He wanted to stay here.

Even nixed a trade to Calgary. Kadri tweeted he thinks “Babs is a great coach” and let’s not forget the turn around of your favourite player:

Big Read: Babcock will turn Kadri into a star - Sportsnet.ca

If the room was lost. If the coach was so horrible... how do stories like this emerge?

Like most things in life, the truth of Mike Babcock lies somewhere in the middle.

So far, the biggest skeletons in his closet were forcing Marner to make that list, and yelling at Franzen about his play.

The entire city has overreacted.

Peters is different. Racial slurs? Actually punching and kicking players? Entirely different territory.

I really think this is bad for our city. If you get fired, everyone will dig deep to find your skeletons. Sounds like a horrible place to work. As Babcock said... he wouldn't have taken the job in Toronto if his kids weren't grown up.

 

[Marshy]

I don't remember Carlyle or Wilson or Maurice or Quinn being labelled as "the worst person I ever met" after they were let go. By previous teams players no less.


Anyway I think I'm done on this thread. Just glad this guy is gone. He'll be some other team's problem soon enough if you believe his apologists on here.

 

[Kiwi]

Yes, it's an underlying issue to some people. I don't mean to be snippy to you but congrats for realising this. I had an on-the-job instructor that told me how he needed to handle different people differently. It's nice that you're tough enough but some people grow up in abusive households and have great trouble dealing with that. But hey, Babcock's the mental health dick, he knows all this, right?

If there's one thing you can go after Babcock over its that he didn't seem to know his own players if some of the reactions are correct, those do seem pretty counterproductive to athletic performance

I wouldn't call myself tough, just a realization that if I got into pro sports I was going to be dealing with this stuff, I can remember Gardiner almost in tears after his own crowd started booing him, it's a tough industry

Just because you have some knowledge of the field doesn't mean your infallible or incapable of harm

Berating and shaming players with post concussion syndrome is about as useful as kicking a dead horse. Let’s put it this way it says a lot more about Babcock than it does about Franzen who was a playoff warrior.

Perhaps, it's Babcock's style of coaching though and he's been using it pretty successfully for a long time

It sucks that he went through what he did but apportioning all the blame for him mental state to Babcock seems like going to far imo

 

[Throw More Waffles]

I don't remember Carlyle or Wilson or Maurice or Quinn being labelled as "the worst person I ever met" after they were let go. By previous teams players no less.


Anyway I think I'm done on this thread. Just glad this guy is gone. He'll be some other team's problem soon enough if you believe his apologists on here.

I'm sure there are players whose careers were ended based on those coach's decisions. They probably consider those coach's the worst person they ever met. I mean, their careers were ruined. But only in Toronto is dirty laundry aired out to such an extent.

 

[Marshy]

I'm sure there are players whose careers were ended based on those coach's decisions. They probably consider those coach's the worst person they ever met. I mean, their careers were ruined. But only in Toronto is dirty laundry aired out to such an extent.

And those 4 coached in Toronto yet only poor Babs is getting picked on by these softies. Riiiiiiiight.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

And those 4 coached in Toronto yet only poor Babs is getting picked on by these softies. Riiiiiiiight.

I think it's just the new way of things.

 

[Marshy]

I think it's just the new way of things.

You see it how you want man. I see it differently.


Cheers.

 

[Kiwi]

So the ends justify the means right?


Hey my wife cleaned a better house and didn't put supper on the table late after I tore her down a few strips.


Come on man listen to yourself. Results all that matter? There are peoples lives being ****ed with here by those in power. That is NOT ok however you want to spin it.

In professional sports? Yes they do
People will accept a lot if you get results (things far worse than what Babcock did as well)

When your wife is playing for the Leafs and your her coach and she doesn't perform you may very well do that, it's just another motivational tactic

To a large extent yes

That's basically a coaches job, he's a cross between God and a dictator this isn't some 9 to 5 office job so if he wants to **** with you have can (to a certain extent)

Who said it's OK? Its just an acknowledgment of reality

Wow

Is that your professional opinion?

 

[Marshy]

In professional sports? Yes they do
People will accept a lot if you get results (things far worse than what Babcock did as well)

When your wife is playing for the Leafs and your her coach and she doesn't perform you may very well do that, it's just another motivational tactic

To a large extent yes

That's basically a coaches job, he's a cross between God and a dictator this isn't some 9 to 5 office job so if he wants to **** with you have can (to a certain extent)

Who said it's OK? Its just an acknowledgment of reality



Is that your professional opinion?

I get what you're about now. Take care.

 

[Kiwi]

I get what you're about now. Take care.

Welcome to reality

You take care to

 

[shaner82]

Welcome to reality

You take care to

It's not reality anymore. If the only coaching story out there was about Babcock, this would all go away and everything would return to normal. But with Babcock, Peters and now Crawford, this is not going to just go away. There's going to be more and more discussions surrounding "abuse" by coaches. It wouldn't surprise me if more stories end up coming out too.

Also, we will never know everything. There's going to be lots of players with horror stories who will never share them. It's only the tip of the iceberg we get to see, the rest will stay buried

Either way, things are going to change now, and anyone who believes otherwise hasn't been paying attention to society over the last 5 years

 

[Kiwi]

It's not reality anymore. If the only coaching story out there was about Babcock, this would all go away and everything would return to normal. But with Babcock, Peters and now Crawford, this is not going to just go away. There's going to be more and more discussions surrounding "abuse" by coaches. It wouldn't surprise me if more stories end up coming out too.

Also, we will never know everything. There's going to be lots of players with horror stories who will never share them. It's only the tip of the iceberg we get to see, the rest will stay buried

Either way, things are going to change now, and anyone who believes otherwise hasn't been paying attention to society over the last 5 years

The physical stuff being unacceptable I can agree with but the hard nosed disciplinarian? I think there will always be a place in the game for those guys

If you can get results people will put up with a lot of ****, let's be honest here if Babcock had of been able to get this team playing well we still would be none the wiser about what has been going on

What Crawford and Peters did is bloody awful and criminal, Babcock with Marner is a borderline firable offense (brushed under the carpet and unreported at the time) but the other stuff?

You don't usually get fired for being a successful prick, an unsuccessful prick however?

 

[The Podium]

In professional sports? Yes they do
People will accept a lot if you get results (things far worse than what Babcock did as well)

When your wife is playing for the Leafs and your her coach and she doesn't perform you may very well do that, it's just another motivational tactic

To a large extent yes

That's basically a coaches job, he's a cross between God and a dictator this isn't some 9 to 5 office job so if he wants to **** with you have can (to a certain extent)

Who said it's OK? Its just an acknowledgment of reality



Is that your professional opinion?

Have you ever played for a coach like Babcock? I have, and in ways you are right, fear is a powerful motivator but only for a limited time. Eventually it runs thin and players start pushing back or underperform because they are tired of the constant mental stress. It happened to every player I knew who played for this coach and most left the team after year 3 despite "great success".

At the end of the day, as an NHL player or professional in the real world, you have to enjoy what you are doing. Working in a hostile environment is tough, even if at the end of the day your job is only a game.

 

[Kiwi]

Have you ever played for a coach like Babcock? I have, and in ways you are right, fear is a powerful motivator but only for a limited time. Eventually it runs thin and players start pushing back or underperform because they are tired of the constant mental stress. It happened to every player I knew who played for this coach and most left the team after year 3 despite "great success".

At the end of the day, as an NHL player or professional in the real world, you have to enjoy what you are doing. Working in a hostile environment is tough, even if at the end of the day your job is only a game.

I've played for worse than Babcock, successful with some, not so much with others

Most coach's have a shelf life, even coach's players like can become stale after multiple years in charge with a similar message, it's the nature of the position in a lot of ways

I tended to find it didn't go well with to much of the same sort of coach, having a "players coach" in the set up and a "disciplinarian" worked better

Players are different and need different motivational techniques to get the best out of themselves