Rumor: Avs Reached out to Chicago about Patrick Kane

[CDJ]

Lets see if Byram actually plays again before moving him out in hypotheticals or saying he’s worth more than Patrick Kane…

fully healthy he is untouchable but we all know that’s not the case currently

 

[Price is Wright]

Burakovsky would have to be in the package right?

 

[Kibe]

Man, this thread is confusing. I know all other Avs fans are just joking and having fun with the Kaut+1st stuff, but this one guy... I'm not so sure . Either he's really really good at it, or he's actually being serious, wich would be absolutely bonkers.

 

[Just a Fan]

I’m not a fan of either of these teams, but after reading the 1st 4 pages, I am so happy I opened this thread….wow….

 

[HFpapi]

Isn't Kadri as good as gone after this season? No way the Avs could or should trade Newhook for a winger. I feel like in terms of making them clear favourites, Giroux does the trick just fine (of course he's no Patty Kane), and will cost far less.

 

[canadianmagpie]

Kaut is barely worth a 3rd round pick at this point.

Price is similar to what Colorado got for duchene.

2023 1st + Barron (bowers level prospect at the time of trade) + helleson (girard level prospect) + 2022 2nd or Liam foudy (makes up the 2nd round pick value)

that’s less than what duchene returned as his return also included a 3rd and kamenev

Didn't that 1st round pick become Byram?

 

[Mrfenn92]

This was worth the read. Great start to my Saturday morning.

 

[strictlyrandy]

Hawks fans not being able to understand blatant sarcastic punchlines after they set the punchlines up is just comedic gold. Incredible Saturday morning.

Kane is a phenomenal talent but it wouldn’t be worth what it’d take.

The suggested return a page back of Devon Toews, Burky, and Newhook is insane. Those three players missing would damage the roster way too much and I’d rather have the impact those three provide than Kane. Toews has more value than Kane from a production/position/cap point of view anyway. I wouldn’t trade Toews for Kane straight up. He’s more valuable to this team than Kane is imo.

Kane is a great player no doubt but not one worth trading for, the cost would damage the roster too much and be counterproductive. The Avs already have a Cup window open for several years after Kane’s contract is up, the cost to acquire him would likely shorten it to just this year and next imo.

 

[Ararana]

The only thing I got out of this thread is how much Chicago fans want Byram

But yeah this isn’t happening. Feel free to continue wasting your time here though.

 

[Mrfenn92]

Hawks fans not being able to understand blatant sarcastic punchlines after they set the punchlines up is just comedic gold. Incredible Saturday morning.

Kane is a phenomenal talent but it wouldn’t be worth what it’d take.

The suggested return a page back of Devon Toews, Burky, and Newhook is insane. Those three players missing would damage the roster way too much and I’d rather have the impact those three provide than Kane. Toews has more value than Kane from a production/position/cap point of view anyway. I wouldn’t trade Toews for Kane straight up. He’s more valuable to this team than Kane is imo.

Kane is a great player no doubt but not one worth trading for, the cost would damage the roster too much and be counterproductive. The Avs already have a Cup window open for several years after Kane’s contract is up, the cost to acquire him would likely shorten it to just this year and next imo.

Outside of the first proposal from a hawks fan, the others aren’t hawks fans FYI. A few avs fans are arguing with others.

 

[Makar Goes Fast]

For the record I’d trade Kaut + 1st for Kane. Heck i may even add Ranta.

 

[Richard88]

You highly overestimate your young (and in Byram's case, precarious) assets relative to Patrick Kane at 5.25 mil per for 2 playoff runs.

Kane is one of very few players who can single-handedly tip scales on a team looking to get over the hump.

Colorado could get a player who can tip the scales without giving up Newhook or Byram. See Giroux, Claude.

 

[Mrfenn92]

The only thing I got out of this thread is how much Chicago fans want Byram

But yeah this isn’t happening. Feel free to continue wasting your time here though.

One Chicago fan proposed byram. Everyone else is essentially fans of other teams

 

[Richard88]

If you were pretty certain a deal would put you over the top , why not overpay? If know you’re current roster is as good as it’s going to get for the next couple of years (one or more of Kadri Nuke Burakovski leaving ) nows the time to make a move.
Bolts overpaid for Coleman and Goodrow but the gamble paid off.
If I was Joe, if one of Newhook or Byram plus a pick did the trick, I would say get er done. Entire purpose of building a team is to win a cup. Why hold back? I understand not wanting to mortgage the future on a risky gamble but the Avs are so deep and Kane would make them so good …. Screw the future . You will still have a very good team without Newhook or Byram. Win the cup and still be good for years to come.

There's a big difference in overpaying with late 1st's, and giving up young players who've already flashed #1D skill on your team.

You're right that the purpose is to build a team to win the cup, but there's a balance to be struck. Mortgaging the entire future of the team on one playoff run doesn't guarantee a win, especially in a sport like hockey where margins are fine in the playoffs.

 

[Richard88]

They would need a broker to make Kane's contract fit. But that would also mean someone would get a substantial piece to take on this year and next as a percentage, which then gets into picks next year and beyond since the Avs don't have their 1st or 2nd this year.

Retaining 50% on Kane 'only' costs Chicago $4.03m in real cash across both seasons which shouldn't be prohibitively expensive.

As for Colorado they are projected to have ~$3.9m in deadline capspace so they'd need to move a smaller contract back in order to fit Kane at $5.25m, for example that could be one of Jost/Compher/Murray. Avs have $27m+ capspace in the offseason so plenty of flexibility to work around Kane for next season too.

Point being neither team will require a 3rd team to broker a trade.

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

Could you imagine if we needed a goal in the final minute?

Landeskog-Rantanen-Kane
MacKinnon-Makar

Good God... Will never happen though.

Fans may protest but that is the type of temptation a GM offers Byram and Newhook for with Kane's cap hit retained.

Most likely a fantasy all around as in reality it seems unlikely Kane is traded at 50%.

 

[AvatarAang]

Ryder + Halak vs Kaut + 1st who says no

 

[Speedtrials]

Offensively, they would just be in unreal with him

 

[PatriceBergeronFan]

There's a big difference in overpaying with late 1st's, and giving up young players who've already flashed #1D skill on your team.

You're right that the purpose is to build a team to win the cup, but there's a balance to be struck. Mortgaging the entire future of the team on one playoff run doesn't guarantee a win, especially in a sport like hockey where margins are fine in the playoffs.

How old is Makar, Rantanen, MacKinnon, etc? There are many years left on that future. You aren't looking at Pittsburgh, Washington, or the Bruins here. Your team can afford to trade assets to elevate to a tier that Tampa may not even be able to match. Other teams may outbid on Giroux but they are not likely able to with Kane if Colorado uses its assets as they can.

 

[Richard88]

Byram and Newhook? yeah nah...
Avs gotta give someone better to get someone line Patrick Kane

Devon Toews (28), Andre Burakowsky (26), Alex Newhook (21) -> Hawks
Patrick Kane (33) -> Avalanche

That cap hit would go about even, Hawks would get a good c/w prospect + 2 x key pieces to d and f
who are both at their prime, but who are not old, who have 5-7 years left in their prime years.

And Avs would get a ridiculous huuuuge boost to their offense which would increase their Stanley Cup changes
they can replace Toews with Byram

Toews is playing at near-Norris level this season in terms of production and on-ice impact, and is signed for 3 more playoff runs at a phenomenal caphit, so I doubt Colorado have any interest in moving him whatsoever.

 

[Richard88]

He's a recent 1st round pick with NHL experience. He's still worth a late 1st AND we are adding another 1st on top of that.

Honestly, 1st + Kaut is worth more then Kane without retention. Probably close to fair value for Kane @ 50% though.

Pierce, I often enjoy your posts and value your insights, but I do wish you'd stop fanning the flames on the main board with sarcastic posts like you've been doing. That does nothing to contribute to a good conversation and only leads to the derailing of threads like this which are a cesspit to read through and also make Avs fans as a whole look foolish.

For other's reference here are some of Pierce's recent posts about Kaut from HFAvs threads:

Ya Kaut just isn't NHL caliber

The love affair for Kaut is insane.

He is a bad hockey player.

Why make the team worse though?

We all rag on Jost every GDT, yet he's still a better player then Kaut at this point. Kaut is a worse version of Megna/Sikura at the NHL level.

Nah, one of them is actually a decent player and does things well away from the puck and contributes positively when he isn't producing.

The other is Martin Kaut. He sucks, all there is to it.

I think I went too far with one guy, but I've also had experiences with him in that past and he's an ass hat so I dont feel bad.

My favorite part is how people are still jumping into that thread thinking Kaut + 1st is legit.

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Colorado could get a player who can tip the scales without giving up Newhook or Byram. See Giroux, Claude.

Giroux is a great player, but he's not Kane, and he ain't coming in at 5.25 mil through next year.

Last 3 years:
Regular season: Giroux .78 p/g, Kane 1.16 p/g
Playoffs: Giroux .5 p/g, Kane 1 p/g

They are not the same.

 

[Richard88]

My read on the Kane (and JT Miller) rumour is that Sakic is posturing to indicate to Fletcher that he has other options as well to try to get Fletcher to lower his asking price on Giroux. I say that in light of the fact that Colorado's assistant GM Chris MacFarland has been in Philadelphia for the last two Flyers games.

 

[Bobby9]

Damn..

would cost a lot but the Avs would be a juggernaut with him

 

[Dipsy Doodle]

Tuch’s definitely a great player, and he’s taking this opportunity with additional minutes and responsibility to really show how great he is. Just wanted to clarify that he wasn’t viewed as a PPG guy at the time of the trade

You're right, what he did after the fact wasn't relevant to his trade value at the time.

But he was still a better piece at that time than anything the Avs are giving up in the present proposal for all the other reasons I listed.