Auston Matthews 69 goals in 81 games, most goals scored since Lemieux in 1995-96

[Divine]

I understand the notion of not viewing empty netters the same as a goal with a goalie.

If I was judging a goalscorer, I would judge him on his ability to score goals on a goalie and not simply the most accurate at shooting at the net. The NHL should use non-ENG as the first tie breaker for Rocket winners tbh and should include the total goals scored minus empty netters for tracking purposes.

McDavid scored 64 goals in 82 games - 4 empty netters = 60 goals in 82 games
Matthews has scored 62 goals in 73 games - 2 empty netters = 60 goals in 73 games
Ovechkin has scored 65 goals in 82 games - 3 empty netters = 62 goals in 82 games

Those are the highest scoring seasons in the last 30 years. Ovechkin leads the way with 62 goals on a goalie. Matthews and McDavid are tied at 60, with Matthews having played 9 less games.

 

[Ol' Jase]

When Ovechkin scores an empty net goal: "Great job darling, you earned it sweetie. Score all the empty netters you like."

When Matthews scores an empty netter: "Doesn't count. He's an empty net merchant, a fraud. In fact, they should count as a minus on his goal total."

Yeah, the EN argument started with a Leaf fan using it to discredit McDavid’s 64 last year, but you believe whatever you’d like.

 

[authentic]

Anyone using empty netters to try to minimize Matthews is an utter donkey. He has 2 all season, and only 10 in his entire career.

Ovechkin by comparison has 57.

So you're telling me Matthews isn't on pace to become the greatest empty net goal scorer of all-time? What a slob.

 

[Divine]

Yeah, the EN argument started with a Leaf fan using it to discredit McDavid’s 64 last year, but you believe whatever you’d like.

No it didn't.

It started with an Oilers fan trying to claim McDavid is a better goalscorer because he beat Matthews to 60 if we only count team games, not player games (because Matthews missed a game due to illness) which is a ridiculous argument.

A Leafs fan countered with why don't we count goals scored on a goalie?

 

[Ol' Jase]

No it didn't.

It started with an Oilers fan trying to claim McDavid is better because he beat Matthews to 60 if we count team games - which is a ridiculous argument.

Well, McDavid is certainly a better player than Matthews. Surely that isn’t up for discussion.

 

[Divine]

Well, McDavid is better a better player than Matthews. Surely that isn’t up for discussion.

Players growing up playing in Toronto usually are. Much more opportunity for them.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Toronto players usually are.

So Matthews is better than McDavid. Cool.

 

[Divine]

So Matthews is better than McDavid. Cool.

Matthews is from Scottsdale, Arizona
McDavid is from Newmarket, Ontario - grew up paying triple A in Toronto and was a massive Leafs fan.

I'm saying players who nurtured their games in Toronto are usually better - just a better city to be for hockey. Most of the Oilers greats grew up playing hockey in Toronto.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Players growing up playing in Toronto usually are. Much more opportunity for them.

Oh Jesus.

 

[Divine]

Oh Jesus.

It's not even debateable though.

Toronto is much more hockey-centric.

Some Oilers fans hate Leafs fans but love their captain who was a Leafs fan. It's quite the conundrum.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Most of the Oilers greats grew up playing hockey in Toronto.

That is absolutely false and completely made up.

 

[Divine]

That is absolutely false and completely made up.

Gretzky/McDavid/Coffey?

 

[Leksand]

If Matthews can win nine Rocket Richards with the help of 57 ENGs that would be a good thing and very hard to accomplish. It also doesn’t matter if he will play in a low or high scoring era going forward. If he continues to be the best goal scorer he will score the most goals and win the Rocket Richard again and again and again.

If he will score more than 92 goals in a season will depend on rules, enforcement, goalie equipment, league expansion, tactics etc etc out of his control.

 

[HighAndTight]

This is completely incorrect.

The first half of the season Toronto had absolutely atrocious goaltending and only won games because of the efforts of Matthews and Nylander, who normally alternated great games.

Matthews has almost all of his goals in tight situations:

Jamie Maclennan said it on the radio a couple weeks back - one of his buddies runs an advanced stats site and they track goals scored either down by a goal, tied, or up by 1.

Almost all of Matthews' goals fall into those categories.

Which makes almost all of his goals crucial to the success of the team.

Very rarely has he scored the 5th goal of a blowout, or empty net goals.


Also, he had scored almost 1/4 of the team's goals this year, despite still ranking in the 50s of players' power play time on ice.

How was I at all incorrect? I wasn't saying he was at fault for the losses. I said that be played to a certain standard and then continued to do so and it was impressive....

 

[Divine]

If Matthews can win nine Rocket Richards with the help of 57 ENGs that would be a good thing and very hard to accomplish. It also doesn’t matter if he will play in a low or high scoring era going forward. If he continues to be the best goal scorer he will score the most goals and win the Rocket Richard again and again and again.

If he will score more than 92 goals in a season will depend on rules, enforcement, goalie equipment, league expansion, tactics etc etc out of his control.

Matthews likely finishes as the best even-strength goalscorer of all time (relative to his peers). He's already going to be tied for 2nd in leading the league in even-strength goals after this season.

When you're the best even-strength goalscorer in the NHL as a rookie - it helps.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Gretzky/McDavid/Coffey?

Gretzky/McDavid/Coffey - Toronto
Messier/Fuhr - Edmonton
Anderson - Vancouver
Lowe - Montreal
Kurri - Finland
Draisaitl - Germany

 

[Leksand]

Matthews likely finishes as the best even-strength goalscorer of all time (relative to his peers). He's already going to be tied for 2nd after this season.

When you're the best even-strength goalscorer in the NHL as a rookie - it helps.

That would be very good - not the least for the Leafs.

 

[Divine]

Gretzky/McDavid/Coffey - Toronto
Messier/Fuhr - Edmonton
Anderson - Vancouver
Lowe - Montreal
Kurri - Finland
Draisaitl - Germany

Yeah, the further you go down the list the more non-Toronto guys you'll have. The top 3 are arguably all Toronto. The top 2 definitely are.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Yeah, the further you go down the list the more non-Toronto guys you'll have. The top 3 are arguably all Toronto. The top 2 definitely are.

You said most of the Oiler greats. That is objectively false.

 

[Divine]

You said most of the Oiler greats. That is objectively false.

We interpret greats differently. I don't view Lowe/Kurry/Draisaitl as Oilers greats.

I'll rephrase that - the top 3 Oilers of all time are arguably all from Toronto. Better?

 

[Ol' Jase]

We interpret greats differently. I don't view Lowe/Kurry/Draisaitl as Oilers greats.

I'll rephrase that - the top 3 Oilers best players of all time are arguably all from Toronto. Better?

Well, the organization considers them as Oiler greats. So does the Hockey Hall of Fame.

I can’t begin to explain to you how much that matters more that “what you view”

Kurri not an Oiler great? Messier not a top 3 all time Oiler? Are you insane? This is just ridiculous.

 

[Divine]

Well, the organization considers them as Oiler greats. So does the Hockey Hall of Fame.

I can’t begin to explain to you how much that matters more that “what you view”

Kurri not an Oiler great? Are you insane? This is just ridiculous.

Sure - but the best of the greats are from Toronto is my point. Even you don't dispute that. You can extend greats as far down as you want - I know Lowe likes to talk about his rings with Gretzky in Edmonton.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Good Lord, you two - get it back on track.

 

[Ol' Jase]

Sure - but the best of the greats are from Toronto is my point. Even you don't dispute that. You can extend greats as far down as you want - I know Lowe likes to talk about his rings with Gretzky in Edmonton.

Messier is much more of an “Oiler great” than Coffey is.

I’ll stop this now. It’s an absolutely asinine derailment.

 

[Three On Zero]

8 more goals in 9 more games, what are the odds? Does Toronto have a tough schedule?