Weird that people don’t consider Matthews generational at this point. A two-way center like that who scores at nearly a goal per game… not enough secondary powerplay assists I suppose?
Auston Matthews 69 goals in 81 games, most goals scored since Lemieux in 1995-96
- Thread starter Divine
- Start date
Name one generational player that has never won a single Art Ross. But you're right, people love to hate on him. Wonder why?
I mean he’s already led the NHL in points per game on a goalie against McDavid who people consider the 3rd best offensive player of all-time, while spending close to 100 minutes less on the powerplay all season and actually playing defense, which is only extra impressive when the bulk of your points are goals. You also know exactly why people love to hate him and you’re attempting to pawn it off on me
a bit unfortunate too that it is from the beginning, he seems to truly hit his stride after the season has gone on for a while. Will be interesting to see his strongest 50-game window for this + next season.
Divine
Registered User
- Dec 18, 2010
- 19,312
- 13,534
Maurice Richard?
He was the leagues all time goals leader when he retired but never won a scoring title.
Funny because he had 6 goals in his first 2 games so he really could have done it this season, but he came close enough for me where you couldn’t really ask for much more considering everyone else who did it was in a higher scoring era. He did just score 51 goals in a 50 game stretch in his Hart season too and no one else has even done that besides Lemieux in 30 years.
He will most likely be a generational goal-scorer. But if you look at Pastrnak for example, he has actually a higher one-season goal record than Matthews, and his #2 was better than Matthews's, too.
So this season is really the first one where he has a legitimate claim.
How many times did Richard lead the league in goal scoring? He was scoring 50 when other guys were scoring 26.
Divine
Registered User
- Dec 18, 2010
- 19,312
- 13,534
5 times.
Matthews is in his third season leading the league in goalscoring despite only playing over 74 games in his rookie season.
Isaac Nootin
Registered User
- Sep 28, 2017
- 7,807
- 12,276
yeah, it was a quick look. Pretty sure he retired as the all time goal scoring leader for a few years too.
And all that said, I'm not sure Richard is even considered a generational player, more of a legend of the game.
Namikaze Minato
Registered User
Is he? I always considered there to be a "big 4" of Howe, Orr, Lemieux and Gretzky.
Namikaze Minato
Registered User
What a great question, is the guy who came into the league and completely changed goal scoring forever by becoming the greatest of all time (both single season and career), a once in a generation talent.... hmmmm.
Maybe you should start a poll, I bet habs fans would love to hear your arguments on why Rocket Richard was not generational, despite being the greatest player of his generation.
Edit: To the edit you made after:
Those are the 4 greatest players of all time, not the 4 generational players.
Last edited:
HabsCode
Registered User
- Feb 10, 2019
- 3,329
- 3,959
I would add Maurice Richard was an icon of his generation specially for french canadian, and the movie about his life show how special his character was and his drive. He ranks #14 for goal by game in NHL history I feel this is really impressive considering the era he played. And there is a trophy after his name after all. If he isn’t generational then which player is from the 40s? Depends what we consider a generation time wise.
You're asking me to poll Habs fans for an objective opinion?
Anyways, this is getting off topic, and admittedly I'm not well versed enough to continue this argument about Maurice Richard.
But your post does kind of solidify my point. Its very rare that a generational player, a center especially, doesn't win the Art Ross at least once in his career.
And in the rare cases, like Maurice Richard, they do a whole heck of a lot more than win the goal scoring race 5 times. As I suggested, Richard was a legend of the game in addition to being a generational player, outscoring his peers by a ratio of nearly 2:1.
I guess Mike Bossy would be a better comparison to Matthews. Is Mike Bossy considered generational?
Namikaze Minato
Registered User
The habs fan above you seemed to give some good insight and context into the Rocket without giving you any reason to disregard his opinion based on his fandom. Does me being a leafs fan and defending the Rocket make my argument have more weight than if a habs fan said the same thing?You're asking me to poll Habs fans for an objective opinion?
Maybe it would be easier for you to list every player you consider generational?
So far youve only listed the 4 greatest players of all time, Gretz, Lemieux, Orr and Howe and youve specifically mentioned 2 other players who have scored 50 in 50 in Bossy and Rocket (only guy youre missing there is Hull) .
So is there any other players that could potentially be generational? Ovie? Sid? Any goalies that are generational to you? Does Mcdavid make the list?
What makes a player generational?
Generational is they type of player you see once a generation. Which in hockey terms is probably 25 years. Doesn't mean that 2 cant exist at the same time but its very rare.
The type of player that people tell their grandchildren about. The type of player that has such a gap over his peers its impossible to ignore.
Mario
Wayne
Orr
Howe
Hasek
Possibly McDavid to join that group when its all said and done. No ovie, no sid.
Namikaze Minato
Registered User
So you just listed everything Maurice Richard accomplished during his time in the NHL and still left him off your list?
He scored 50 in 50 before Howe was even in the league, Howe then never scored 50 goals in a single season in nearly 2200 games in 2 professional leagues in 3 and a half deades while never playing LESS than 50 games in a single season. Howe is a top 4 player of all time and couldnt do what Maurice did, thats how special a talent Richard was.
Your list feels like a nice mix of
"I only know these players and players that came after them are younger than me so they can never be as good as my heroes are."
and
"My dad never told me about anybody before Howe so they must not be very good".
Sid and ovie arent generational? Like holy f***, learn some hockey history.
Matsun
Registered User
- Aug 15, 2010
- 636
- 531
Go on the history board and start a thread comparing Richard and Matthews
Richard might be the GOAT playoff goalscorer, he is still 3rd in playoff GPG behind Mario and Bossy and at the time of his retirement he was dominant in the all time list.
| Playoffs goals by 1960 | GP | G | GPG |
| Maurice Richard | 132 | 82 | 0,62 |
| Bernie Geoffrion | 106 | 53 | 0,50 |
| Ted Lindsay | 126 | 44 | 0,35 |
| Gordie Howe | 95 | 37 | 0,39 |
| Jean Beliveau | 63 | 36 | 0,57 |
| Playoffs goals by 1980 | GP | G | GPG |
| Maurice Richard | 132 | 82 | 0,62 |
| Jean Beliveau | 162 | 79 | 0,49 |
| Gordie Howe | 157 | 68 | 0,43 |
| Yvan Cournoyer | 147 | 64 | 0,44 |
| Bobby Hull | 119 | 62 | 0,52 |
| Playoffs goals by 2000 | GP | G | GPG |
| Wayne Gretzky | 208 | 122 | 0,59 |
| Mark Messier | 236 | 109 | 0,46 |
| Jari Kurri | 200 | 106 | 0,53 |
| Glenn Anderson | 225 | 93 | 0,41 |
| Brett Hull | 153 | 88 | 0,58 |
| Mike Bossy | 129 | 85 | 0,66 |
| Maurice Richard | 132 | 82 | 0,62 |
| Playoffs goals now | GP | G | GPG |
| Wayne Gretzky | 208 | 122 | 0,59 |
| Mark Messier | 236 | 109 | 0,46 |
| Jari Kurri | 200 | 106 | 0,53 |
| Glenn Anderson | 225 | 93 | 0,41 |
| Brett Hull | 153 | 88 | 0,58 |
| Mike Bossy | 129 | 85 | 0,66 |
| Joe Sakic | 172 | 84 | 0,49 |
| Maurice Richard | 132 | 82 | 0,62 |
Last edited:
Video Nasty
Registered User
- Mar 12, 2017
- 5,745
- 9,983
In a vacuum, 64g 153p > 70g 115pts
With context of scoring relative to the league:
* 153p was +20% more than #2 pt total (128pts)
* 77g (pace) is +40% more than #2 goal pace (57g)
Doing 3-4 laps around the rest of the league in goal scoring is more impressive than 1-2 laps around the rest of the league in pts
Speaking of context, this ignores that McDavid was 35% clear of his closest non-teammate and that not only did he score the most goals in the league, but he also handed out the most assists.
Your pace calculations are not correct either. 77 goals over #2 57 goals is 35%.
I’m rooting for Matthews to maintain his monstrous pace right now and hell, crank it up a notch beyond what I think is possible this season by potting 80, but we need to let the dust settle on the real end result numbers before properly comparing these seasons.
After all, when McDavid had 60 goals and 138 points through 72 games last season, he was on pace for 68 goals and 157 points with 10 games to go. Those numbers were obviously a little lower in the real world. He was also up on Drai by 25.5% in points and up by 38% over closest non-teammate Kucherov with 10 games to go. Again, those percentages slipped down to 19.5 and 35.4% respectively.
It’s fun to compare now, but let’s also see how the current story ends.
JimmyApples
Registered User
- Sep 24, 2021
- 3,822
- 3,880
It’s simple: lack of playoff success (team and individually). Even when people would complain about Ovechkin’s team choking in the playoffs, Ovie had a crazy high playoffs goal per game until they finally got over the hump.
Matthews has had, what? 7 or 8 shots at showing dominance in a playoffs now? He’s never had a “Him” moment where he put his team on his back. When I think of Matthews in the playoffs, it’s of him lazily giving up on a play in OT against the Lightning a couple of years ago, and them scoring and sending to to the deciding game (where Matthews is like, 0-6 or something)
- Jun 22, 2018
- 8,953
- 21,212
He’s a generational goal scorer for sure, the issue is that the rest of his game gets supremely overrated by fans
With this goal scoring explosion the desperate narrative of his two way impact has returned in full force. Likely preparing to begin the narrative Matthews > McDavid again shortly.
