ATD 2017 Draft Thread IV

[Hawkey Town 18]

I think I'm already against the idea of teams missing the playoffs. There's just no incentive whatsoever for said people to continue investing energy in this thing. It feels like you've already been eliminated without participating in a single series.

What about proving that the regular season voters were wrong by showing how strong your team is and winning the consolation bracket?

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

Hey Theo.... I just noticed you called all the series divisional quarterfinals. But they should be called divisional semifinals, right?

Correct it's semis

 

[jarek]

What about proving that the regular season voters were wrong by showing how strong your team is and winning the consolation bracket?

How does that show them they're wrong? All that does is show them that my team may have been the best of those that didn't make the playoffs. That doesn't necessarily mean my team would beat the worst of those that made the playoffs.

I didn't really think about any of this until I actually ended up in the consolation bracket. To be honest, I expected to be 2nd place in my division. Now that I'm there.. I can understand the pointlessness of it.

 

[seventieslord]

How does that show them they're wrong? All that does is show them that my team may have been the best of those that didn't make the playoffs. That doesn't necessarily mean my team would beat the worst of those that made the playoffs.

I didn't really think about any of this until I actually ended up in the consolation bracket. To be honest, I expected to be 2nd place in my division. Now that I'm there.. I can understand the pointlessness of it.

I thought it was worth a try, but certainly not if everyone has this attitude.

 

[jarek]

I thought it was worth a try, but certainly not if everyone has this attitude.

If Iceman cares to participate, then I will be happy to respond. I love a good debate. As it stands, however.. I have very little energy for it.

Please note that a big part of that is because I just moved as well and am still trying to settle in.

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

To elaborate on the loser's bracket idea, this is what it could look like:

Division semifinals

Same thing as what is currently being done.

Division finals

2nd round of the regular playoffs go on as planned.

Losers of the first round of the playoffs from both divisions of the same conference go up against the consolation round winners. This would mean there are now six teams in the loser's bracket in each conference. Matchups could be 1v6, 2v5, 3v4, meaning that intra division play is on display now. Matchups could be determined by the amount of votes that each team received in the regular season, regardless of division difference.

Conference finals

3rd round of the regular playoffs go on as planned.

Three teams should be left over from the loser's bracket, with two new teams joining the bracket, bringing the total to five. This isn't ideal as five isn't an even number. My suggestion is to give the team with the highest regular amount of regular season votes a bye (explained later), thus the matchups would be 2v5, and 3v4, with the same seeding system as I proposed above.

3a round:

The winners of the 2v5 and 3v4 matchups mentioned above face off, and the winner gets to face off against the team that got the bye.

Playoff finals

The two best teams from each conference that advanced through the regular playoffs bracket face off against each other.

The winner of the 3a round in the loser's bracket faces off against the loser of the conference finals.

4a round:

The ATD final is put on hold as the winner of the loser's bracket from the previous round goes up against the playoff finals loser.

ATD Final:

The winner of the playoff finals goes up against the loser's bracket champion for the ATD crown.

Pros:

-Consolation winners get a shot at the big prize, giving them more incentive.
-Playoff losers have a second chance, minimizing the damage of being put in so called "divisions of death".
-Everyone gets to participate a bit longer (except for the losers of the consolation matchup in the 1st round)
-The longer someone is actively involved, the higher the chance that they'll vote on playoff results down the line.

Cons:
-More work for the administrative team.
-ATD takes longer to finish due to the presence of two extra rounds (3a and 4a).
-ATD Finals could be the same matchup as the playoff finals.
-Kind of defeats the purpose of hiding seedings
-TLDR.

 

[Theokritos]

Hey Theo.... I just noticed you called all the series divisional quarterfinals. But they should be called divisional semifinals, right?

Correct it's semis

My bad. I've got it fixed now.

I thought it was worth a try, but certainly not if everyone has this attitude.

Well, I don't think you can blame people or expect something else. Jarek is right, once you're eliminated there's very little incentive to continue. Which is why I have suggested the winner of the consolation bracket should get first choice of where to pick in the next ATD as an incentive.

It feels like you've already been eliminated without participating in a single series.

It doesn't just feel like that: you've indeed been eliminated without participating in any series. But that's unavoidable with hidden seedings and divisions with any number of teams other than 4 (or 8). This would have been one of the pros of the alternative I have proposed:

In the round-robin system not all teams would make the playoffs, but nevertheless every participant would get to be involved in (at least) 3 "series" (if every division consists of 4 teams).

 

[BraveCanadian]

Looks like this consolation round thing is gonna die after the first year?

 

[ResilientBeast]

The problem as posters pointed out last year, is that if you're ranked in the bottom half of your division they've already decided that you are going to lose and therefore upsets are very very rare. So to rectify that we hid seedings.

My first year I was a 6 seed going against a very strong Billyshoe led team, and there was little incentive for me to argue then. I was way overmatched and it felt futile that time.

It's clear that the system needs refinement and if I may be frank people only seem to have objections after the fact. If you don't like the system fine but when voting opens please take the time to vote. We'll figure out something better next fall and make ATD 2018 better. But you have to voice your concerns, if you'd like to have gm reputation factor into the seedings make your voices heard, if you want everyone in the playoffs, like the hidden seedings etc

Looks like this consolation round thing is gonna die after the first year?

Not shocking, all we've done is cut out what is really the first round which the top 4 teams usually win handily anyway

 

[TheDevilMadeMe]

The problem as posters pointed out last year, is that if you're ranked in the bottom half of your division they've already decided that you are going to lose and therefore upsets are very very rare. So to rectify that we hid seedings.

My first year I was a 6 seed going against a very strong Billyshoe led team, and there was little incentive for me to argue then. I was way overmatched and it felt futile that time.

This defeatist attitude really seemed to take hold around when you joined the ATD, maybe a little before. Prior to then, "underdogs" went through the effort of showing how well they matched up against the opposing team, and sometimes would even win! Overpass was a 7th seed in ATD12 (the one before ATD2010, the first year we went with a yearly draft) and went to the divisional finals against the eventual champion (EagleBelfour). The next year, markrander was a rookie 7th seed who took out EagleBelfour in the 1st round because he vigorously pushed his team and actually was a real unfavorable matchup for EB's team.

So "underdogs" absolutely can win...if they match up well with the "favorite" and the GM actually puts forth effort.

I mean, I guess I can't blame people really... the ATD is supposed to be fun, and it can be frustrating knowing the other team is favored to win. Especially as the ATD has become more about "my line 1 is better than your line 1," etc, rather than how the teams actually match up against each other.

 

[ResilientBeast]

This defeatist attitude really seemed to take hold around when you joined the ATD, maybe a little before. Prior to then, "underdogs" went through the effort of showing how well they matched up against the opposing team, and sometimes would even win! Overpass was a 7th seed in ATD12 (the one before ATD2010, the first year we went with a yearly draft) and went to the divisional finals against the eventual champion (EagleBelfour). The next year, markrander was a rookie 7th seed who took out EagleBelfour in the 1st round because he vigorously pushed his team and actually was a real unfavorable matchup for EB's team.

So "underdogs" absolutely can win...if they match up well with the "favorite" and the GM actually puts forth effort.

I mean, I guess I can't blame people really... the ATD is supposed to be fun, and it can be frustrating knowing the other team is favored to win. Especially as the ATD has become more about "my line 1 is better than your line 1," etc, rather than how the teams actually match up against each other.

That's why I liked the idea of hiding seedings, it would hopefully try and get around that sort of hopelessness.

But the turnout this year meant we couldn't do it seamlessly

 

[tony d]

So, is there a timeline for voting here? The Easter holiday is over.

 

[ResilientBeast]

We'll get voting going tomorrow

 

[ResilientBeast]

Life got in the way for a second

Voting is now open. For those that are new, please list your personal 3 stars for the series, who would win in how many games.

Do not vote on your own series

 

[Namba 17]

Life got in the way for a second

Voting is now open. For those that are new, please list your personal 3 stars for the series, who would win in how many games.

Do not vote on your own series

Whom should we send our voting?

 

[ResilientBeast]

Whom should we send our voting?

Theokritos
Same as before

 

[ResilientBeast]

As HT reminded me, your votes are in a 7 game format. As in state which team wins in how many games

 

[tony d]

Just voted.

 

[King Forsberg]

Voted last night. Some of these were really tough. With such a small draft it's tough to pick a loser in each series. You look at the stars of each team and think there's no way these guys are losing in the first round but then the other team has just as much star power.

 

[ResilientBeast]

I'll be getting my votes in soon

 

[tony d]

How are we doing with voting thus far?

 

[seventieslord]

I thought voting was done yesterday, therefore, I voted last night. why are we still waiting when the deadline was made clear and people were given four days?

 

[ResilientBeast]

I thought voting was done yesterday, therefore, I voted last night. why are we still waiting when the deadline was made clear and people were given four days?

I've been bogged down with travel for work my votes will be in shortly

 

[Theokritos]

I've only received 10 ballots so far. (And I am also unaware of the deadline that has been mentioned)

 

[seventieslord]

I've only received 10 ballots so far. (And I am also unaware of the deadline that has been mentioned)

that's understandable, since you didn't receive this PM:

Voting is now open and will run till sunday

please send your votes to Theokritos

but everyone else did.

if we only have 10, then we really have no choice but to wait, and poke, prod and harrass others who have not voted. We can't go forward with 10.