ATD 2017 Draft Thread IV

TheDevilMadeMe

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Aug 28, 2006
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Could it be that the issue is actually a result of the changes implemented this year? In a draft of this size (4 divisions of 6 teams) the 1st seeds used to get a bye and the 2nd seed wasn't as likely to get a high-quality opponent in the first round. This year however there are hidden seedings and no byes, which means that only the top 4 make the playoffs and it's much more likely for the top teams to get dangerously good opponents right away.

A part of it, I would think.

I recall one previous draft in particular (edit: 2010) when 4 of the top 5 teams were all in the same division. The eventual champ of the entire draft (me :yo:) had to go to game 7 twice (including at least one OT) to get our of his (my) own division.

But first round was a cakewalk against a rookie 8th seed.

(And having unbalanced Conferences seems to happen more often than not).

Basically, the "first round" matchups you see this year are the types of matchups you'd normally see in the second round.... and if you're in the division of death, sucks to be you.
 

BenchBrawl

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Jul 26, 2010
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Just for the record, my comment wasn't meant to start a huge controversy on the issue or a criticism towards anyone.It was meant as a compliment to the GM I'm facing.We knew it was going to be a tough division to win as soon as we saw the draw and we all commented on it early on in the draft.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
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Why does no one make these concerns known at the beginning of the draft when I asked for suggestions?

sorry, I hope you don't take this as an attack on you in any way, but it feels like you take it a tad personally as commish. Divisions haven't been assigned like this forever, but since at least before you got here, I think. You're right that concerns like these should be brought up in advance.
 

seventieslord

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Mar 16, 2006
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I think the only potential way to avoid something like this (other than randomly moving GMs from one division to another) would be a system seeding the GMs by their past performance in the ATD.

Agree, and I would be for that. It would not be particularly hard to do it. You can never ensure divisions are perfectly even, but this would at least ensure an effort is made to avoid this kind of thing.

It doesn't have to be out in the open, either. A TDMM, Sturm, Theo, HO, or myself (if I'm not participating) can do this kind of thing fairly easily, or even a few of us to get the best results.
 

Theokritos

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Apr 6, 2010
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It doesn't have to be out in the open, either. A TDMM, Sturm, Theo, HO, or myself (if I'm not participating) can do this kind of thing fairly easily, or even a few of us to get the best results.

I think it can and should be out in the open. It just has to be a rather basic system with crude tiers, not a grandiose system with awe-inspiring (and possibly reputation enhancing & voter influencing) point accumulations on part of the most successfull veteran GMs.
 

seventieslord

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I think it can and should be out in the open. It just has to be a rather basic system with crude tiers, not a grandiose system with awe-inspiring (and possibly reputation enhancing & voter influencing) point accumulations on part of the most successfull veteran GMs.

the potential for voter influencing is exactly why I'd probably prefer it's done behind the scenes.
 

Theokritos

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Apr 6, 2010
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the potential for voter influencing is exactly why I'd probably prefer it's done behind the scenes.

Understood, but a system that remains intransparent and a secret to the participants isn't really better than randomly moving GMs from one group to the other until the groups look somewhat balanced.
 

seventieslord

Student Of The Game
Mar 16, 2006
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Understood, but a system that remains intransparent and a secret to the participants isn't really better than randomly moving GMs from one group to the other until the groups look somewhat balanced.

I wouldn't call it "randomly moving" at all. The entire process would be controlled and everything would be done with a purpose.

besides making the divisions as balanced as possible, an added benefit would be to ensure no GMs are in the same division two years in a row. I think we actually did that once.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

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Aug 28, 2006
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If you're going to do divisions based on the GMs in them, just base it off past performance, something like the GM's finishes in the last 3 drafts, maybe with higher weights to more recent ones. Like real sports do with rankings. Use an objective standard. I know that I, for one, don't want to have to be responsible for deciding who constitutes a "good GM."
 

seventieslord

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Mar 16, 2006
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If you're going to do divisions based on the GMs in them, just base it off past performance, something like the GM's finishes in the last 3 drafts, maybe with higher weights to more recent ones. Like real sports do with rankings. Use an objective standard. I know that I, for one, don't want to have to be responsible for deciding who constitutes a "good GM."

That's also what I'd suggest.
 

TheDevilMadeMe

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Aug 28, 2006
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With Brodeur as my starter, I wanted to have a back-up that could also handle the puck well. This way, it doesn't matter who's in net - my defensemen don't have to change the way they come back for dumped pucks.

Month old bump FTW....

But as someone who saw the confusion and struggles that the Devils skaters had in transitioning out of the Martin Brodeur era, this was a very wise move. It wasn't just bad luck that the team played worse in front of the new hotshot.
 

Leaf Lander

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  • First Round:
Bob Cole Preliminary: Indiana Ice vs. Montreal AAA

  • Second Round:
Bob Cole Consolation Round: Toronto Maple Leafs vs. Winner of Bob Cole Preliminary
Rene Lecavalier Consolation Round: Stockholm Full Throttle vs. Toronto Maple Austons
Foster Hewitt Consolation Round: Borussia Red Bull 04 vs. Miami Screaming Eagles
Jim Robson Consolation Round: Borg Collective vs. Strathcona Shadows

  • Third Round:
Jim Coleman Consolation Round: Winner of Bob Cole Consolation Round vs. Winner of Rene Lecavalier Consolation Round
Red Fisher Consolation Round: Winner of Foster Hewitt Consolation Round vs. Winner of Jim Robson Consolation Round

  • Fourth Round:
2017 ATD Consolation Final: Winner of Jim Coleman Consolation Round vs. Winner of Red Fisher Consolation Round

Been working 60 hrs a week so I have been out of the loop.
So what are the standings based on the votes. Not familiar with this new format
 

Hawkey Town 18

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Jun 29, 2009
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Been working 60 hrs a week so I have been out of the loop.
So what are the standings based on the votes. Not familiar with this new format

We aren't releasing the full regular season standings because of the decision to have no seeds for the playoffs. However, due to the fact that you are in the 7 team division and are playing the winner of the preliminary series in the consolation bracket, you are the only team in the entire draft who can know for sure where they finished, and that is 5th place in your division.
 

Leaf Lander

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We aren't releasing the full regular season standings because of the decision to have no seeds for the playoffs. However, due to the fact that you are in the 7 team division and are playing the winner of the preliminary series in the consolation bracket, you are the only team in the entire draft who can know for sure where they finished, and that is 5th place in your division.

I assumed I was first place.
 

seventieslord

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Mar 16, 2006
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Bio updates:

I'm finished.... I'm actually finished. Definitely the most extensive set of bios I've ever done. that was 1,255 photos of pages of books and magazines turned into text for your future research. A few notes:

Brian Rolston. - one of the most successful penalty killing wingers of all-time, and has a legit case to be on an ATD powerplay (I might still put him there myself). I knew about his speed and his big shot and his defensive skill, but I wasn't aware he was considered such an enigma in New Jersey. At the ATD level, he's a specialist. There were guys I wanted over him to play the "two-way LW on the 4th line, center on PK2" role, but in the end I am very pleased I got him.

Bernie Nicholls. Mainly a scorer, but far from one-dimensional. Developed quite the defensive game later in his career. Was very Patrick Kane-like until around 1990, just with the personality, the clutch reputation, the flash and the enthusiasm. I often bristle at the notion that Turgeon and Nicholls are on the same tier, because Turgeon's offense was a clear cut above, but Nicholls did have a lot more substance to his game. You could call him a poor man's Jeremy Roenick.

Miikka Kiprusoff. He went from having an excellent 2012 to a brutal 2013 and was promptly ditched, but just about the entire time from 2004 to 2012 he was considered a high end, often elite, starting goaltender. For whatever reason he had faded from my radar the last few years and it was nice to get a reminder of what he meant to the Flames and how highly regarded he was, particularly from 2004 (when THN picked him for the vezina) to 2006 (when they named him the NHL's top player).

Brian Bellows. This one was extremely eye opening to me for a few reasons. First, as I took photos for my bios, a few passages caught my eye about him having defensive issues around 1990-1992. That stuck in my head and caused me to rate him very low on that defensive hierarchy I did a couple pages ago. But that was actually just a small part of his career. He matured defensively under Demers in Montreal and his greater attention to backchecking helped him remain in the NHL longer. But the biggest surprise was that from the time he was drafted, through around 1987, Bellows was like Jonathan Toews version 1.0. He was extremely highly regarded for his maturity, leadership, and all-around game. I didn't know this at all, because it was before my time, so it was really entertaining to get this all typed out. by 1987 though, he had clashed with a coach, been criticized for selfishness and poor defense, and suddenly all that goodwill from early in his career was forgotten. He got over it, and by the time I saw him win the cup in 1993 he was in the middle - neither a respected leader nor a headcase, neither great nor poor defensively, just a solid, gritty veteran who could score and muck. Seriously though, read what players, coaches and pundits thought of Brian Bellows for the first 5 years of his career. Who knew?

Al Arbour. I had seen some passages in the photos I took a month ago, so I was extremely excited to do this bio, more than any other one, even though he's just a spare. The language used to describe Al Arbour's defensive ability is perhaps more superlative than any other defenseman I've ever profiled. The dude was a pure stud defensively. Like Tom Johnson, this is a really good example of a bio bringing a guy's game to life. I hope this one gets some eyeballs. There's so much about the way he played, and how he was regarded, both within the AHL, and by experts in the NHL who wondered why the heck he wasn't there.

Mike Ridley. Ridley filled a need for my squad - If I lost a defensive or penalty killing center I wanted one who could fill in there, while also being a good ES scorer. Ridley fit the bill. He was pretty much a flawless player who, on the downside, was also not exceptional in any one area.
 

Iceman

Registered User
Jun 9, 2014
10,648
2,045
Bio updates:

I'm finished.... I'm actually finished. Definitely the most extensive set of bios I've ever done. that was 1,255 photos of pages of books and magazines turned into text for your future research. A few notes:

Brian Rolston. - one of the most successful penalty killing wingers of all-time, and has a legit case to be on an ATD powerplay (I might still put him there myself). I knew about his speed and his big shot and his defensive skill, but I wasn't aware he was considered such an enigma in New Jersey. At the ATD level, he's a specialist. There were guys I wanted over him to play the "two-way LW on the 4th line, center on PK2" role, but in the end I am very pleased I got him.

Bernie Nicholls. Mainly a scorer, but far from one-dimensional. Developed quite the defensive game later in his career. Was very Patrick Kane-like until around 1990, just with the personality, the clutch reputation, the flash and the enthusiasm. I often bristle at the notion that Turgeon and Nicholls are on the same tier, because Turgeon's offense was a clear cut above, but Nicholls did have a lot more substance to his game. You could call him a poor man's Jeremy Roenick.

Miikka Kiprusoff. He went from having an excellent 2012 to a brutal 2013 and was promptly ditched, but just about the entire time from 2004 to 2012 he was considered a high end, often elite, starting goaltender. For whatever reason he had faded from my radar the last few years and it was nice to get a reminder of what he meant to the Flames and how highly regarded he was, particularly from 2004 (when THN picked him for the vezina) to 2006 (when they named him the NHL's top player).

Brian Bellows. This one was extremely eye opening to me for a few reasons. First, as I took photos for my bios, a few passages caught my eye about him having defensive issues around 1990-1992. That stuck in my head and caused me to rate him very low on that defensive hierarchy I did a couple pages ago. But that was actually just a small part of his career. He matured defensively under Demers in Montreal and his greater attention to backchecking helped him remain in the NHL longer. But the biggest surprise was that from the time he was drafted, through around 1987, Bellows was like Jonathan Toews version 1.0. He was extremely highly regarded for his maturity, leadership, and all-around game. I didn't know this at all, because it was before my time, so it was really entertaining to get this all typed out. by 1987 though, he had clashed with a coach, been criticized for selfishness and poor defense, and suddenly all that goodwill from early in his career was forgotten. He got over it, and by the time I saw him win the cup in 1993 he was in the middle - neither a respected leader nor a headcase, neither great nor poor defensively, just a solid, gritty veteran who could score and muck. Seriously though, read what players, coaches and pundits thought of Brian Bellows for the first 5 years of his career. Who knew?

Al Arbour. I had seen some passages in the photos I took a month ago, so I was extremely excited to do this bio, more than any other one, even though he's just a spare. The language used to describe Al Arbour's defensive ability is perhaps more superlative than any other defenseman I've ever profiled. The dude was a pure stud defensively. Like Tom Johnson, this is a really good example of a bio bringing a guy's game to life. I hope this one gets some eyeballs. There's so much about the way he played, and how he was regarded, both within the AHL, and by experts in the NHL who wondered why the heck he wasn't there.

Mike Ridley. Ridley filled a need for my squad - If I lost a defensive or penalty killing center I wanted one who could fill in there, while also being a good ES scorer. Ridley fit the bill. He was pretty much a flawless player who, on the downside, was also not exceptional in any one area.


Good job!

At first I thought... wait... you didn't have Arbour. I guess you can make a BIO for any player but I forgot he was a defensman once upon a time. :naughty:
 

jarek

Registered User
Aug 15, 2009
10,006
240
I think I'm already against the idea of teams missing the playoffs. There's just no incentive whatsoever for said people to continue investing energy in this thing. It feels like you've already been eliminated without participating in a single series.
 

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