ATD 2017 Draft Thread IV
- Thread starter jarek
- Start date
VanIslander
20 years of All-Time Drafts on HfBoards
We have ALWAYS waited until all skipped picks are made BEFORE add/drop begins.
Dreakmur
Registered User
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Voight
#winning
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
I have to agree.This isn't a criticism of the pick, but I always had the impression with Bouwmeester that he was basically a minute eater who had no impact on the game whatsoever.He's just... there for half the game, without purpose or effect, be it positive or negative
I'm aware this isn't really true, but it's the impression he left me throughout his career.
I don't think this is entirely untrue. He's a very "low event" player, and coaches like that. He's out of his prime now, but during his prime he was very consistently playing tough defensive zone minutes against tough competition.
Nilsson was one of the very best scorers remaining when selected, and I think he played some wing, too.
Hedman? meh... at least he's finally playing 24 minutes a game like a big boy.
West Lafayette selects Evgeni Nabokov, G.
6x Top 6 Vezina (2, 4, 4, 4, 5, 6)
7x Top 8 AS (1, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 8)
2000-01 Calder Trophy Winner
I don't think he's very far behind Kiprusoff. He was probably my 2nd choice when I made that pick.
No, not just because of that. Kilrea is not just "not an NHL coach", he's "not a men's coach" - he's spent his entire career coaching children, and that's a whole different game. They need to be managed and motivated differently than adults do, and the goal of a junior league is much different too, because it's developmental and because you only get a player for, at most, four years.
Plenty of coaches get selected whose experience is non-NHL, or mostly non-NHL (Tarasov, Chernyshev, Muldoon, Johnson) - and I don't think anyone will mind me mentioning other guys now that the draft is over - but guys like Bun Cook, Viktor Tikhonov, David Bauer, Herb Brooks, Jaroslav Pitner, Jan Starsi, Bobby Kromm, and Bill Dineen are all fairly well-received picks when they are made late in the ATD, or in the MLD/AAA.
That said, I don't think it's an outright disqualifier either, in the same way that a player who only played junior hockey would/should never be selected at any level. I think there's a right time for Kilrea, it's just not up here. (I've selected him in the AAA before; I recall VI didn't even like the pick at that level)
The Borg Collective will select their final spare, a young dynamic center who we predict will be taken much higher next year. Much like his partner in Dallas has risen in the ATD, so shall this player. While still very young in his career, he has already accomplished a great deal. The Borg Collective proudly select a player we feel could step into our lineup and replace one of our All time great players and not miss a beat. We select Tyler Seguin .
AS finishes: 5, 5, 12
Hart finish: 6
Top 10 goals: 5, 5, 10
Top 10 assists: currently 4th
Top 10 points: 4, 7, currently 8th
Top 10 plus/minus: 2, 7
Top 10 even strength goals: 6, 6
Top 10 PPG: 2, 5, 6, currently 10th
Recently led the World Championships in goals
A.K.A Tyler Borguin
...not ready yet.
Indiana Ice will select D Bryan McCabe!
Should bring a steadying presence & great leadership to our team.
McCabe has risen six straight drafts. He finally seems to be selected in a range of other defensemen where he belongs. Keith Yandle was seriously taken before him. Keith Yandle!!
It's funny, he hasn't done anything for six years but he keeps rising slowly as appreciation for him builds (or hate dissipates). Phaneuf is still active and adding career value, an keeps dropping (though not steadily, more erratically). I think McCabe is clearly a better all-time player than Phaneuf and it's good to see, finally, that he's being selected before him for two drafts now (after 11 drafts of being selected after him, going back to ATD8, when Phaneuf was in the first half of his 3rd NHL season
:
Along with Arbour, good to see the very best defensive guys get taken before they fall to the MLD (Mitchell, Macoun, Dupont, Bouwmeester)
Definitely against it. We haven't picked that way in the AAA for a few years now (and never did it that way in the MLD). It puts certain guys at a disadvantage and there's no real benefit to it.
I would also be in favour.
The Invincibles select the coach of the last Leafs dynasty, Punch Imlach. Bio to come. There is no ATD bio for him, and that is part of the travesty of him dropping to the MLD last year. One is sorely needed to demonstrate why he is one of the greatest coaches of all time. Of 30 coaches drafted this year, he should be no lower than 10th-15th in anyone's books.
- I'll be citing how Conn Smythe thought him to be a better coach than Hap Day; how Conn used to send a messenger down to Day during games to tell him which players need benching for underperforming and which ones needed more ice time on a given night, but that with Punch he didn't need to do that because Punch already sensed what to do and would do it before a messenger could be sent. Conn thought Punch had an "uncanny" ability to assess players and outright called him the greatest Leaf coach ever.
- Also, when he took over coaching during the 1958-59 season, the Leafs were in the basement and Punch refused to give up on the season, saying his team will make it to the playoffs and engineered an epic run, ridiculed by the Rangers coach whose team was in the last playoff position. Punch did several key things to get the team into the playoffs, and in fact the Stanley Cup finals.
- Veteran players were fiercely loyal to Punch, with two of them (Horton included), threatening to retire when there was some talk of firing Punch.
- Punch's relationship with Brewer was mostly over money (as Punch also wore the hat of GM) and twice Brewer's agent, lawyer Alan Eagleson convinced his client to quit hockey and go to university as a negotiating tactic.
- Mahovlich was booed by fans for underperforming and he simply was a bad fit for the team. Many of the best coaches have strong convictions and demands and some players don't thrive under it. (Bowman was said to be widely hated in Montreal by the players every day of the year except the day they won the cup.) If the Big M didn't want to practice very hard, he got his wish hen he played elsewhere later.
- Punch's hard-working practices translated into Game 6 and Game 7 victories for the more fit Leafs against exhausted opponents, as documented at the time.
- The Invincibles is a hard-working two-way responsible squad ideally fitted for Punch.
(Now excuse me, I'm at work, as it's after 1PM Mondy afternoon here. I've got five books lined up with details on Punch, and am looking forward to assembling a bio this week. If anyone has sources to add, please PM me)
If I get a chance, I'll send his mini-entries from the Complete Handbook Of Pro Hockey (assuming he's in the 1972 or 1980 editions)
"as per tradition" is an absolutely terrible reason to do anything, even if I agree with the subject matter.
We should always challenge tradition and evolve.
...Much better.
tinyzombies
Registered User
Dreakmur
Registered User
Wow, I specifically remember Henderson getting drafted and discussed.... but apparently I imagined it!
I would have taken him instead of Lynn Patrick, and left Demitra on my 2nd line.
tinyzombies
Registered User
I was surprised he was there also. Completes my checking line nicely. I have Terry O'Reilly up for grabs if anyone wants to make an offer.
How many drops/adds can you make?
If you make more than 25, there will be serious doubts about your strategy. Until then, rage on.I was surprised he was there also. Completes my checking line nicely. I have Terry O'Reilly up for grabs if anyone wants to make an offer.
How many drops/adds can you make?
Shoot me a PM if you decide to drop Potvin or Messier so that I can claim them off waivers first!
tinyzombies
Registered User
Well I'm a gonna drop Normie Smith for VladimÃr Dzurilla.
[EDIT: Nevermind, I'll keep Smith]
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Sturminator
Love is a duel
Out of curiosity, I did a quick study of a few of the top wingers from seventies' ESVsX project and how their even-strength scoring compares to the centers with whom they mostly played during the period of their overlapping primes. Here you go:
Anderson ends up much closer to Messier than I had expected, and much, much closer than their raw VsX would suggest. Drilling down into the data a bit, Mess misses a few more games than Anderson over the course of their time as linemates together, but I don't think this changes much, as it likely means that there were times when Anderson had to fend for himself without Messier. Also of note is that Anderson got tons of PP icetime in Edmonton, and simply didn't do much with it. He seems to have been a real even-strength specialist - nearly an equal partner with Messier at five-a-side, but a poor performer on the power play.
Worth noting about Tanguay is that his single highest ESP total is actually not here, as it occurred in his first season in Calgary. I checked, and he and Iginla are tied at 60 ESP in 2006-07, so Tanguay wasn't riding anybody's coattails at even-strength at least in that season. Tanguay was obviously the junior partner on his lines in Colorado (this would be true when he skated with Forsberg, as well), but he still ends up being a better even-strength scorer than I had thought. Like Anderson, Tanguay got lots of PP time, and simply wasn't very productive.
Nothing shocking here. Shutt was largely a passenger on the Lafleur line. His ES production is still surprisingly high, all things considered, but playing with Lafleur was certainly a big part of the reason why he scored the way he did. Shutt didn't actually spend that much time on the Habs' top unit powerplay, only breaking 50% PP icetime in four seasons.
Anderson ends up much closer to Messier than I had expected, and much, much closer than their raw VsX would suggest. Drilling down into the data a bit, Mess misses a few more games than Anderson over the course of their time as linemates together, but I don't think this changes much, as it likely means that there were times when Anderson had to fend for himself without Messier. Also of note is that Anderson got tons of PP icetime in Edmonton, and simply didn't do much with it. He seems to have been a real even-strength specialist - nearly an equal partner with Messier at five-a-side, but a poor performer on the power play.
Worth noting about Tanguay is that his single highest ESP total is actually not here, as it occurred in his first season in Calgary. I checked, and he and Iginla are tied at 60 ESP in 2006-07, so Tanguay wasn't riding anybody's coattails at even-strength at least in that season. Tanguay was obviously the junior partner on his lines in Colorado (this would be true when he skated with Forsberg, as well), but he still ends up being a better even-strength scorer than I had thought. Like Anderson, Tanguay got lots of PP time, and simply wasn't very productive.
Nothing shocking here. Shutt was largely a passenger on the Lafleur line. His ES production is still surprisingly high, all things considered, but playing with Lafleur was certainly a big part of the reason why he scored the way he did. Shutt didn't actually spend that much time on the Habs' top unit powerplay, only breaking 50% PP icetime in four seasons.
Hawkey Town 18
Registered User
A while ago, I tried to account for all of Gretzky's points in certain select seasons. The conclusion is that Anderson played with Gretzky quite a bit at EVS, while Messier barely played with Gretzky. Playing with Gretzky is obviously going to boost your point totals at EVS, PP, or SH. I've got data for 1981-82 and 1985-86, Gretzky's two most famous seasons.
For Anderson:
-1981-82: Gretzky was in on 46 of Anderson's points (43.8% of Anderson's total points), 31 of them being at EVS (38.3% of Anderson's total EVS points)
-1985-86: Gretzky was in on 45 of Anderson's points (44.1% of Anderson's total points), 25 of them being at EVS (36.8% of Anderson's total EVS points)
For Messier:
-1981-82: Gretzky was in on 25 of Messier's points (28.4% of Messier's total points), 16 of them being at EVS (22.2% of Messier's total EVS points)
-1985-86: Gretzky was in on 21 of Messier's points (25.0% of Messier's total points), 25 of them being at EVS (11.1% of Messier's total EVS points)
Voight
#winning
seventieslord
Student Of The Game
Alright, thanks everyone for finishing your rosters and getting them all nicely formatted in the roster thread. The reason I wanted this done in a hurry was because TheDevilMadeMe is returning to the board very soon, and has not even peeked at this year's ATD. He's going to vote on the standings and he's going to do it with absolutely no knowledge of which GMs are in the draft or which teams they own.
This is pretty awesome for two reasons. One, we get a set of votes from a really knowledgeable voter who would not be partisan even if he knew who had which team. Two, we get to take a look (after standings are released) at whether there are any glaring differences between the results and if we can identify whether reputation/longevity plays as much a part in voting as many suspect it does.
A couple weeks ago there was a perceived hurry on this because his return to the boards was imminent - it didn't look like it would wait until everyone was done their teams. But in the end, he took his time coming back, allowing everyone to get their full rosters together. I've sent him the rosters in excel with absolutely no hint of whose is whose. He will refer to the teams by their head coach's name.
Plus, TDMM returns! That's not too bad news either, eh?
This is pretty awesome for two reasons. One, we get a set of votes from a really knowledgeable voter who would not be partisan even if he knew who had which team. Two, we get to take a look (after standings are released) at whether there are any glaring differences between the results and if we can identify whether reputation/longevity plays as much a part in voting as many suspect it does.
A couple weeks ago there was a perceived hurry on this because his return to the boards was imminent - it didn't look like it would wait until everyone was done their teams. But in the end, he took his time coming back, allowing everyone to get their full rosters together. I've sent him the rosters in excel with absolutely no hint of whose is whose. He will refer to the teams by their head coach's name.
Plus, TDMM returns! That's not too bad news either, eh?
jarek
Registered User
- Aug 15, 2009
- 10,005
- 239
Why is this being announced as if it's some kind of crazy event to celebrate? Haha.
