ATD 2017 Draft Thread IV

[Sprague Cleghorn]

I'll take a physical, right-shooting defensive midfielder for the 60s Russian team, Eduard Ivanov. Ivanov has fallen over 100 spots over the past few drafts, largely due to an incomplete picture of how he actually stacked up against the world's best at the time. I hope to take a stab at clarifying that somewhat, and I needed a boisterous presence on the right side to step in, in the event of a suspension to Cleghorn or something worse.

I thought about him, but then I read about his feud with Tarasov, and he was a quick no-no.

 

[Voight]

The Miami Screaming Eagles select 2 time Vezina award winner Tim Thomas, G

Solid pick, debated between him and Beezer but I went with longevity.

Quite the run of goalies we're having this round.

 

[Voight]

The Cobalt Silver Kings select G - Curtis Joseph

A cousin of mine played minor hockey with his kid a few years back, saddest thing was CuJo coming home and catching his wife and former agent in bed together. His son hasn't spoken to his mom since.

 

[King Forsberg]

I'll take a rugged customer who can add some scoring and most importantly, some toughness to my 4th line.

Welcome Wilf Paiement, RW

 

[seventieslord]

In PMs. I asked you how you put together the calculations and you said you didn't want to share it because it was still a WIP.

You're conflating two things. The methodology for calculating any kind of VsX (regular, ES, D...) is going to be the same anywhere, give or take adjustments for outliers or gaps at the top. I would never obfuscate such a thing, and why would I when it is "public" knowledge by now? The sheet I use is indeed a work in progress (not because of VsXD, but VsXD is on it), and I look forward to getting it out there after it's tweaked/refined/fudged to the point where everything looks smooth.

There's also that a substantial amount of his points come on the PP.

Him being soft is a big reason why I shied away from him when I chose Parise.

I was actually really surprised to find how non-physical he is.

I like him as a spare. Not an ideal or perfect spare, but has attributes that make him very spare-like.

Amarillo's makeup picks will be Fast Eddie Giacomin and two-way center Brad Richards.

two-way? ugh

Better choice for you, anyway.

Just to hammer this home... Better choice, period. Not just for broad.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Selecting Alexander Tanguay, LW, to close out the starting lineup.

 

[BenchBrawl]

Selecting Alexander Tanguay, LW, to close out the starting lineup.

Alexander lol

I don't even think his name is Alexandre, only Alex.Could be wrong.

A good playmaker for a winger.

 

[monster_bertuzzi]

Alexander lol

I don't even think his name is Alexandre, only Alex.Could be wrong.

A good playmaker for a winger.

I'm silly like that.

Tangs also has some two-way ability to his game.

 

[Iceman]

Stockholm selects Mike Liut, G

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

We're going to take a guy who will center our 4th line, a good ES scorer and penalty killer, who will be featured on our 2nd PK unit with Kopitar...these two should be a decent threat the other way.


The Chicago Shamrocks select Murray Oliver, C/LW


Below from seventieslord's bio...

- 5'10", 170 lbs
- Top-20 in Goals 4 Times (9th, 15th, 17th, 19th)
- Top-20 in Assists 3 Times (6th, 6th, 8th)
- Top-20 in Points 3 Times (7th, 9th, 10th)
- Top-20 in ESP 5 Times (3rd, 7th, 7th, 18th, 19th)
- 8th in Playoff Goals (1971)
- Killed 41% of his team's penalties post-expansion
- Played in NHL All-Star Game (1963, 1964, 1965, 1967, 1968)
- Retired 21st all-time in career points

Murray Oliver was a slick playmaking centre who could kill penalties and create chances on the power play. He was blessed with excellent hockey sense and scored over 700 career points on four different teams. The tricky forward was considered one of the best in the league at pulling off the fake pass.

...Oliver recorded three straight 20-goal seasons for the Bruins playing with such wingers as Johnny Bucyk and Tommy Williams. He was a fine playmaker and defensive forward on the improved team that was being built around sensational youngster Bobby Orr. On May, 15, 1967 Oliver was traded to the Toronto Maple Leafs for Eddie Shack. The veteran pivot was solid for three years and worked well on the same line with Bob Pulford and Ron Ellis.

After he was traded to the Minnesota North Stars in 1970, Oliver played five years with the young club before retiring. A highlight for him was scoring seven playoff goals in 1971 when the spunky North Stars extended the Montreal Canadiens to six games in the semi-finals. Oliver also scored a career-high 27 goals in 1971-72 centring Dean Prentice and Lou Nanne.

Fed up with a bitter contract dispute with the Stars, he hung up his skates in 1975 after playing over 1,100 NHL contests.

Murray Oliver was a natural athlete. Murray actually turned down an opportunity to play professional baseball in the Cleveland Indians system, instead opting to further his development in the other sport he loved - hockey. Playing with his home-town Hamilton Tiger Cubs of the OHA, Oliver was named the Red Tilson Memorial Trophy winner as the OHA's Most Valuable Player in 1957-58. He later went on to the Edmonton Flyers of the WHL for a year and a half before being promoted to the National Hockey League with the Detroit Red Wings.

Murray's stay in Detroit was relatively brief. He appeared in parts of two seasons, scoring 31 goals and 31 assists for 62 points in 103 games. While it was short it was definitely sweet for Murray as he often got to center a line with his boyhood idol on right wing - Gordie Howe!

In January 1961 Oliver, Gary Aldcorn and Tom McCarthy were sent packing to Boston in exchange for Vic Stasiuk and Leo Labine. It was in Boston that Oliver became a league star. Using his quick feet and smart playmaking skills, the small center was a consistent scorer and hustling worker who fit in nicely in Beantown.

He topped the 20 goal plateau and 40 assist mark on three occasions with the Bruins, who were a weak team in the 1960s until the arrival of Bobby Orr late in the decade. Playing on the B-O-W line with Johnny Bucyk and Tommy Williams, Oliver's 1963-64 season saw him scored 24 goals and a career high 68 points, good enough to finish 7th overall in scoring. "Muzz" was the Bruins leading scorer in the 1965-66 season with 60 points (18 goals, 42 assists) as well.

Oliver's production slipped to just 9 goals and 35 points in 1966-67. The Bruins, who were looking to get bigger and stronger, traded him to Toronto for Eddie Shack. Muzz played 2 years in Toronto before he was traded to the Minnesota North Stars in exchange for Brian Conacher and Terry O'Malley.

Murray played 5 more years with the North Stars before he found himself out of a job. At the time agents negotiating contracts on behalf of players was a pretty primitive and new practice, one that wasn't warmly welcomed by the NHL teams. Having brought in an agent to negotiate a contract for the first time in his career, the Stars balked at Oliver's request for a 2 year contract and upped and left the negotiating table, leaving Oliver looking for a real job.

...A good penalty killer, Murray was one of the few bright spots in Boston immediately prior to the arrival of Bobby Orr. He also was a bright spot in the early days of NHL hockey in Minnesota.

 

[895]

No all star teams and never picked for team Canada .

Yet he's now been the number one defenseman on two cup winning teams.

Kris Letang

 

[Iceman]

No all star teams and never picked for team Canada .

Yet he's now been the number one defenseman on two cup winning teams.

Kris Letang

Gonchar was on the first cup team of those two so I would not call Letang "the number one" on that one.

Other than that, he was the guy who I was referring to in the conversation about Burns and Subban. Has a better playoff record that both of them.

 

[Johnny Engine]

No all star teams and never picked for team Canada .

Yet he's now been the number one defenseman on two cup winning teams.

Kris Letang

Through the 2008-09 regular season, he was #3 in overall TOI and #4 at even strength.
In the playoffs, he was #5 in overall TOI and #6 at even strength.

No doubt his contributions on that team were valuable, but he's been #1 on a cup winner once.
(it should be noted that on last year's cup team, he was #1 by a mile. Six minute more than the next guy overall and 4 minutes more than his own partner at even strength.)

 

[jarek]

We're going to take a guy who will center our 4th line, a good ES scorer and penalty killer, who will be featured on our 2nd PK unit with Kopitar...these two should be a decent threat the other way.


The Chicago Shamrocks select Murray Oliver, C/LW


Below from seventieslord's bio...

- 5'10", 170 lbs
- Top-20 in Goals 4 Times (9th, 15th, 17th, 19th)
- Top-20 in Assists 3 Times (6th, 6th, 8th)
- Top-20 in Points 3 Times (7th, 9th, 10th)
- Top-20 in ESP 5 Times (3rd, 7th, 7th, 18th, 19th)
- 8th in Playoff Goals (1971)
- Killed 41% of his team's penalties post-expansion
- Played in NHL All-Star Game (1963, 1964, 1965, 1967, 1968)
- Retired 21st all-time in career points

Nice late PK pickup.

 

[BenchBrawl]

No all star teams and never picked for team Canada .

Yet he's now been the number one defenseman on two cup winning teams.

Kris Letang

Letang is a decent pick here.Was wondering where he'd go, if I needed a puck-moving defenseman I would have seriously considered him.His Conn Smythe worthy run last year elevates his all-time value quite a bit.His Norris record is also strong for this range.Injuries and longevity are issues.

 

[Sturminator]

Nice late PK pickup.

Ehh...I remember looking him over in a past draft, and if I recall correctly, Oliver's post-expansion track record as a penalty-killer is largely fool's gold. I'm also not sure he's really a wing; think he's a LW/C sort of like Don McKenney is, and is in many ways a lesser version of McKenney. If memory serves, he didn't top 30% on any PK until he ended up on an expansion team, and while he killed a bunch of penalties for that team (forget which one it was), the team's PK was terrible when Oliver was one of their top guys and actually better in the season or two when he didn't have a big role.

He clearly could kill penalties, but I don't think he's good at the ATD level, even on a second unit. More of a third unit PKer, imo. Still one of the most talented all-around forwards available when he was picked, but not really much of a PK ringer.

 

[jarek]

Ehh...I remember looking him over in a past draft, and if I recall correctly, Oliver's post-expansion track record as a penalty-killer is largely fool's gold. I'm also not sure he's really a wing; think he's a LW/C sort of like Don McKenney is, and is in many ways a lesser version of McKenney. If memory serves, he didn't top 30% on any PK until he ended up on an expansion team, and while he killed a bunch of penalties for that team (forget which one it was), the team's PK was terrible when Oliver was one of their top guys and actually better in the season or two when he didn't have a big role.

He clearly could kill penalties, but I don't think he's good at the ATD level, even on a second unit. More of a third unit PKer, imo. Still one of the most talented all-around forwards available when he was picked, but not really much of a PK ringer.

I was wondering how to separate all these guys with similar career PK usage. Looks like HT18's profile left out the part where his teams were 14% below average on the PK.

 

[Dreakmur]

Orillia Terries select Doug Weight

 

[Iceman]

Letang is a decent pick here.Was wondering where he'd go, if I needed a puck-moving defenseman I would have seriously considered him.His Conn Smythe worthy run last year elevates his all-time value quite a bit.His Norris record is also strong for this range.Injuries and longevity are issues.

How much time has he actually missed, excluding the stroke?

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

LW, Dave Trottier

 

[BenchBrawl]

How much time has he actually missed, excluding the stroke?

Well not that much, but given his "short" career, the time he missed stands out a bit more.

 

[Dreakmur]

Orillia Terries select Doug Weight

With a couple significant injuries during Bill Cowley's career, I wanted to make sure I had a strong replacement for him. I almost picked him when I selected Staal, but I feel Weight has to get PP time to be an impact offensively.

 

[jarek]

Might as well ask.. anyone here aside from Parise who is an injury concern?

Aurele Joliat - Joe Thornton - Maurice Richard
Zach Parise - Norm Ullman - Andy Bathgate
Boris Mayorov - Vyacheslav Starshinov - Bob Nevin
Joe Klukay - Doug Jarvis - RW

Art Ross - Eddie Gerard
Ryan Suter - Drew Doughty
Ted Harris - Doug Mohns

 

[Dreakmur]

Might as well ask.. anyone here aside from Parise who is an injury concern?

Aurele Joliat - Joe Thornton - Maurice Richard
Zach Parise - Norm Ullman - Andy Bathgate
Boris Mayorov - Vyacheslav Starshinov - Bob Nevin
Joe Klukay - Doug Jarvis - RW

Art Ross - Eddie Gerard
Ryan Suter - Drew Doughty
Ted Harris - Doug Mohns

If you play against my team, your whole right side will be injury concerns.

 

[Dreakmur]

Only Parise that I know of.

There's your answer then.

Though, keep I mind that anyone can get injured, so you should have spares for all possible