ATD 2017 Draft Thread II

[Iceman]

How would an ideal ATD first line look like with Fedorov centering it?

 

[tinyzombies]

I was considering him to play with Taylor, seventies said it wouldn't be wise but Sturminator had said he'd be fine in that position. So it's really your call, I personally think it would be okay since he had literally the best season of his career at that position. But some will argue against it

If that's the reason he fell so far I will move him back to C. But he scored 44 as a LW, as you said.

 

[VanIslander]

But even if it's 9, he would be very unlikely to get even to 140, wouldn't he?

If you expect 10 of the next 40 picks to be centers, then yeah. There are some really good centers that go later than that. Anyways,... looking forward to re-visiting this later.

I'm just glad he DROPPED this year to at least the end of the top-100 picks, even though not out of it.

 

[ResilientBeast]

How would an ideal ATD first line look like with Fedorov centering it?

I'd slap him next to someone who couldn't be bothered to play D

 

[Iceman]

I'd slap him next to someone who couldn't be bothered to play D

Like a certain drafted winger who is still playing today?

 

[VanIslander]

How would an ideal ATD first line look like with Fedorov centering it?

I actually love the fact that he is on the 2nd line - as one of the ideal 2nd line pivots - playing behind Yzerman on the Borg Collective.

 

[Iceman]

I actually love the fact that he is on the 2nd line - as one of the ideal 2nd line pivots - playing behind Yzerman on the Borg Collective.

Ah, that's really nice.

I am not dismissing him as a first liner in the ATD. The question was more for educative purposes. Every first line needs to match certain criterias to stack up against other first lines well.

 

[seventieslord]

I was considering him to play with Taylor, seventies said it wouldn't be wise but Sturminator had said he'd be fine in that position. So it's really your call, I personally think it would be okay since he had literally the best season of his career at that position. But some will argue against it

I think 1913 and 1917 were both better seasons, and besides, if you're suddenly centered by Lalonde instead of centering far inferior players yourself, wouldn't the expectation be that you score more?

1918, if it even was his best season, should be seen as an example of what happened when two elite players in that era got together, not proof that he was at his best at LW.

 

[ResilientBeast]

I think 1913 and 1917 were both better seasons, and besides, if you're suddenly centered by Lalonde instead of centering far inferior players yourself, wouldn't the expectation be that you score more?

1918, if it even was his best season, should be seen as an example of what happened when two elite players in that era got together, not proof that he was at his best at LW.

I suppose, if I ever draft Lalonde I'd certainly put Malone on his wing if given the chance.

Malone - Messier looks to be an excellent fit and I won't have any problems with it.

 

[Hawkey Town 18]

I thought there was some info uncovered last year that showed Malone played more LW than we had previously thought? Maybe jarek can fill us in...

 

[tinyzombies]

I suppose, if I ever draft Lalonde I'd certainly put Malone on his wing if given the chance.

Malone - Messier looks to be an excellent fit and I won't have any problems with it.

Messier being the modern Lalonde. I will put him at 2C for now but might come begging later.

 

[ResilientBeast]

Messier being the modern Lalonde. I will put him at 2C for now but might come begging later.

Even then Messier is a C/LW you could certainly have them play together if you so choose

 

[tinyzombies]

Even then Messier is a C/LW you could certainly have them play together if you so choose

Then I lose my power line matchup against Mario.

 

[tony d]

91. Dreakmur - Orillia Terriers - Duncan Keith, D
92. Voight - Indiana Ice - Scott Niedermayer, D
93. Edmonton Express + Yosemite Samm - Strathcona Shadows - Anatoli Firsov, LW
94. Cyborg Yzerman + Cyborg Leclair - The Borg Collective - Sergei Fedorov, C
95. chaosrevolver - Cobalt Silver Kings - Rod Langway, D
96. JFA87-66-99 - Pittsburgh Bankers - Busher Jackson, LW
97. Markrander87 + Stoneberg - West Lafayette Lion Tamers - Guy Lapointe, D
98. tinyzombies - Montreal AAA - Joe Malone, C/LW

Some thoughts on recent picks:

Duncan Keith: Was wondering when he'd go. Brave Canadian drafted him the past 2 yrs. It's going to be interesting to see where/if he goes in the top 100 players of all time list.

Scott Niedermayer: Decent pick, will make for a good partner for Eddie Shore.

Anatoli Firsov: Probably the 3rd best Russian Left Winger ever, reads as someone who is going to be a good all around player.

Sergei Fedorov: Was wondering when he'd go. He went 65th last year, will look good behind Steve Yzerman on the Borg's 2nd line.

Rod Langway; The secretary of defense. Him and Quackenbush could make for a very good 1st pairing.

Busher Jackson: Had thoughts about picking him when I started the draft, got Kharlamov so I wouldn't of needed Jackson, still a decent pick.

Guy Lapointe: Another solid pick, was looking at him to play with Lidstrom, had I kept 93 I would have to stop and think about picking him.

Joe Malone: One of the great early players. Remember having a hockey card of his back in the early 90's. Solid player. I think he was more of a centre but he can play left wing.

In any event those are my thoughts, I know who I want at 105 and 108 so I'll be able to make those picks as soon as I get OTC.

 

[jarek]

I thought there was some info uncovered last year that showed Malone played more LW than we had previously thought? Maybe jarek can fill us in...

You'll have to ask King Forsberg because I passed the info on to him after I traded Malone to him last year. However, what I did was go through every single game Malone ever played that I could find to see where he lined up. The game summaries listed the players and lineups at the end of the reports.

I don't remember the exact distribution I discovered but he definitely played more LW than just that one season.

 

[tinyzombies]

You'll have to ask King Forsberg because I passed the info on to him after I traded Malone to him last year. However, what I did was go through every single game Malone ever played that I could find to see where he lined up. The game summaries listed the players and lineups at the end of the reports.

I don't remember the exact distribution I discovered but he definitely played more LW than just that one season.

Will do. Thanks to you both. 5-10, 150 should translate decently well in size too. Kinda makes me think of Brett Hull in how he could disappear and be open for scoring chances. Without the big shot, I have a feeling Phantom Joe was a similar cerebral player. Which meshes well with Mess who was a very good playmaker, which he isn't often given credit for.

 

[seventieslord]

Will do. Thanks to you both. 5-10, 150 should translate decently well in size too. Kinda makes me think of Brett Hull in how he could disappear and be open for scoring chances. Without the big shot, I have a feeling Phantom Joe was a similar cerebral player. Which meshes well with Mess who was a very good playmaker, which he isn't often given credit for.

Here in the ATD most of us would call that about 6'3" 200 in a modern context. Which sounds about right... tall and lanky for the era.

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

Well, that sucks. Jackson is gone, and then option 2 in Lapointe is also now gone.

 

[895]

Here in the ATD most of us would call that about 6'3" 200 in a modern context. Which sounds about right... tall and lanky for the era.

I get era adjusted scoring...but era adjusted height and weight?

With goalies getting bigger and bigger, are we going to retroactively make Dominik Hasek a 6'4" monster?

Does Martin St. Louis get adjusted down?

 

[JFA87-66-99]

I will take the great Joe Malone.[/QUOTE

Joe Malone, Guy Lapointe, and Busher Jackson were 3 of the guys I was thinking about. I was wondering the same thing about Malone would he be a better winger in the ATD? Definately one of the best early players especially offensively.

 

[seventieslord]

I get era adjusted scoring...but era adjusted height and weight?

With goalies getting bigger and bigger, are we going to retroactively make Dominik Hasek a 6'4" monster?

Does Martin St. Louis get adjusted down?

No, it’s pretty simple really. MSL is a modern player and since everyone gets adjusted to modern type standards, he stays put. Hasek is one generation behind and would get a modest boost up by an inch and ten pounds to reflect that he was actually average sized for a goalie in his time.

DOB range – adjustment

1 A.D.-1889 - +5”, 50 lbs
1890-1909 - +4”, 40 lbs
1910-1929 - +3”, 30 lbs
1930-1949 - +2”, 20 lbs
1950-1969- +1”, 10 lbs
1970-2017- NIL

It’s something I came up with about 8 years ago and though I’m not really attached to it, it keeps getting used here, and it’s not hard to see why. I’ve never seen a case of a player after adjustment looking out of whack; it does a really good job of accounting for how tall/short, heavy/light a player was for their era and puts it into a context anyone can understand. What does 5’9, 165 in a forward who peaked in 1919 mean? Is it big or small? 6’1”, 205? Oh, ok, so about average.

If you check the last MLD's lineup assassination thread I had some fun with adjusted size and showed the tallest, shortest, lightest and heaviest players in the draft. The results were from all eras, specifically because this formula (if you can even call it a formula) does not appear to overly advantage or disadvantage any era.

 

[ck26]

Amarillo picks a big, fast, two-way, right shot defenseman to pair with Stampy The Leg Slicer.

Rob Blake

 

[tony d]

Blake's a wonderful pick, he was certainly a name I was looking at for pick 105/108. I've let leaf know he's up on Facebook.

 

[Sturminator]

I was SO close to picking Firsov over Gerard.. the only real reason I didn't do it is because I knew that no matter which configuration I used, I would have gotten major push back regarding chemistry issues between him and Bathgate/Richard.

I can sorta see not wanting to pair Firsov with Bathgate, but I see no issues pairing him with Richard, who did fine with other puck dominant players (such as Elmer Lach) on his line. Firsov did often dominate the puck carrying duties on his line, but showed later in his career when he was deployed as a midfielder that he could adjust to his role within a team concept and remain highly productive. He's a fairly flexible player in my mind, and was a very strong pick where he was taken this year.

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

I thought the book was closed on Lalonde vs. Taylor offensively years ago.

Defensively, I don't see any reason to believe Taylor was anything special, but I'm pretty sure I've read Lalonde was not a great skater and therefore loafed defensively.

It was mentioned Lalonde was like Messier. He was a good goal scorer, tough and dirty and a fiery leader, yes. But Messier won an inordinate amount of championships for his era, and Lalonde did the opposite. Messier also had the speed, defense and slightly better playmaking.

Im reading Lalonde's 2015 bio and Im seeing: "complete package... could skate", "my forte was... my stride deceptively fast", "his work stands out... not only for stickhandling and speed", "he opened up a burst of speed".

He was probably not in the top percentile during his time, but these quotes lead me to believe he was at worst average.