ATD 2017 Draft Thread II

[jarek]

I was SO close to picking Firsov over Gerard.. the only real reason I didn't do it is because I knew that no matter which configuration I used, I would have gotten major push back regarding chemistry issues between him and Bathgate/Richard.

As far as using Gerard at LW, I *may* use him as a forward on the PK depending on how things go.

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

I was SO close to picking Firsov over Gerard.. the only real reason I didn't do it is because I knew that no matter which configuration I used, I would have gotten major push back regarding chemistry issues between him and Bathgate/Richard.

What's the issue with him and those two?

 

[Dreakmur]

What's the issue with him and those two?

none that I can see

 

[jarek]

What's the issue with him and those two?

Firsov would probably be seen as a puck dominant player - a player who needs the puck on his stick to be most effective. I would agree with this, if you read just about any profile on him, one of the things that is mentioned most prominently is his stickhandling ability, though I think he is rather versatile because he seemed to do very well when asked to simply be a distributor. He is best served however as the offensive focal point of his line, I think.

Richard (unless I'm mistaken) and especially Bathgate are the same way.

Additionally, while a decent amount of new information on his all around game has been revealed, it is nowhere near as fleshed out as it is for Joliat. Picking Joliat allowed me much greater flexibility in terms of who I can take to complete that line.

To be honest, I'm very surprised seventies didn't take Firsov - he was pretty clearly the BPA when he was taken in my mind. Not by a whole lot, but clearly ahead of the next best.

 

[Sprague Cleghorn]

Firsov would probably be seen as a puck dominant player - a player who needs the puck on his stick to be most effective. I would agree with this, if you read just about any profile on him, one of the things that is mentioned most prominently is his stickhandling ability, though I think he is rather versatile because he seemed to do very well when asked to simply be a distributor. He is best served however as the offensive focal point of his line, I think.

Richard (unless I'm mistaken) and especially Bathgate are the same way.

Additionally, while a decent amount of new information on his all around game has been revealed, it is nowhere near as fleshed out as it is for Joliat. Picking Joliat allowed me much greater flexibility in terms of who I can take to complete that line.

To be honest, I'm very surprised seventies didn't take Firsov - he was pretty clearly the BPA when he was taken in my mind. Not by a whole lot, but clearly ahead of the next best.

His bio, to me, reads like a guy who can do it all offensively, not hugely biased towards one aspect or the other. Also, there's a quote by xxx in the bio saying that Hull's individual skills and shot could be countered by Firsov's passing, playmaking and the biggest one, teamwork. Firsov countering Hull is probably an exagerration, but the point with this quote is that xxx thought Firsov could also play a supporting role, instead of having to be THE man.

Firsov was the supernova you were referring to? I thought you were talking about this other guy who could also play LW, but played primarily at another position.

 

[jarek]

His bio, to me, reads like a guy who can do it all offensively, not hugely biased towards one aspect or the other. Also, there's a quote by xxx in the bio saying that Hull's individual skills and shot could be countered by Firsov's passing, playmaking and the biggest one, teamwork. Firsov countering Hull is probably an exagerration, but the point with this quote is that xxx thought Firsov could also play a supporting role, instead of having to be THE man.

Firsov was the supernova you were referring to? I thought you were talking about this other guy who could also play LW, but played primarily at another position.

Yes, Firsov was who I was referring to.

If you're not allowing Firsov to have the puck the majority of the time on the offense, I feel like you're taking away a substantial part of his toolbox. His ability to beat defenders was among the best in Russian hockey history.

 

[Dreakmur]

If you're not allowing Firsov to have the puck the majority of the time on the offense, I feel like you're taking away a substantial part of his toolbox. His ability to beat defenders was among the best in Russian hockey history.

In the ATD, nobody is going to have the puck as much as they did when they played. I think we go way too far with the whole pigeon-holing around here.

 

[jarek]

In the ATD, nobody is going to have the puck as much as they did when they played. I think we go way too far with the whole pigeon-holing around here.

That's possible, but I do believe it is best to try and re-create the environment a player had the most success in in real life. This leaves the least room for subjectivity. This may be the most prominent argument for the re-creation of certain real life lines.

Take Bathgate, for example. I don't think he would be nearly as effective if he were playing with another very puck dominant player. Or perhaps the other puck dominant player would be the one to suffer.

You of all people should appreciate this, considering you were one of the main opponents of my top defense pair last ATD, specifically citing how one of the two defensemen I had would suffer offensively.

 

[Dreakmur]

That's possible, but I do believe it is best to try and re-create the environment a player had the most success in in real life. This leaves the least room for subjectivity. This may be the most prominent argument for the re-creation of certain real life lines.

There's a difference between creating a similar situation and the exact same one. You're never going to recreate the exact same situation, so there's no point trying.

Take Bathgate, for example. I don't think he would be nearly as effective if he were playing with another very puck dominant player. Or perhaps the other puck dominant player would be the one to suffer.

Bathgate, as an example, was "puck dominant" on a terrible team. That's probably why he had the puck, and not because he had to have it regardless of linemates.

You of all people should appreciate this, considering you were one of the main opponents of my top defense pair last ATD, specifically citing how one of the two defensemen I had would suffer offensively.

There's a difference between a rushing defenseman and a puck dominant forward. One has a lot more room to work around his team without losing an impact.

 

[chaosrevolver]

Well...I wanted Stewart so I'll just go for someone in a similar mold..a man who won 2 Norris Trophies as a defensive defenseman against the likes of Ray Bourque, Denis Potvin and Paul Coffey..a fearless leader, physical presence and a defensive stalwart..

The Cobalt Silver Kings select "The Secretary of Defense" D - Rod Langway.

6'3", 218lbs.
2x Norris Trophy Winner
Washington Capitals Captain(82-93)
6x NHL All Star Game Participant
Hockey Hall of Fame Member
2x 1st-Team All NHL
1x 2nd-Team All NHL
1x Stanley Cup Champion
1x Canada Cup 1st-Team All Star
5x Top 11 Norris Trophy Voting (3, 5, 5, 9, 11)
3x Top 4 Hart Trophy Voting (2, 4, 4)
2x 5th in All Star Voting Among Defensemen ("3rd team")

 

[Namba 17]

Yes, Firsov was who I was referring to.

If you're not allowing Firsov to have the puck the majority of the time on the offense, I feel like you're taking away a substantial part of his toolbox. His ability to beat defenders was among the best in Russian hockey history.

Firsov was definitely on of the best stickhandlers in hockey. Famous trick "stick-skate-stick" was his trademark. Also his shot was legendary, they say, that he had the most powerful shot in Europe. He also played as so-called "half-back", which means, that, basically, he was some kind of center for his partners - Kharlamov and non-drafted yet player. So, he definitely can distribute a puck.

 

[jarek]

Bathgate, as an example, was "puck dominant" on a terrible team. That's probably why he had the puck, and not because he had to have it regardless of linemates.

Fair point.

There's a difference between a rushing defenseman and a puck dominant forward. One has a lot more room to work around his team without losing an impact.

Only if that player can contribute in other ways besides offense.

 

[JFA87-66-99]

This was a very hard selection for me, there's about 8 players I have been considering. The player I'm going to draft now was one I almost took with my last pick at #78, but I grabbed Frank Mahovlich instead, plus he's one of the pure Best player available left, so I'm just gonna select him this time. This gives my top 6 some more flexibility and it gives Mario another weapon on his wing. The Pittsburgh Bankers are pleased to select- LW Busher Jackson Here's a decent bio

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=62721081&postcount=245

 

[Stoneberg]

The Lion Tamers are pleased to select Guy Lapointe, D.

We believe he's a great fit next to Stevens with his skating and puck handling abilities.

West Lafayette is also looking to move down from their next pick, #104.

 

[JFA87-66-99]

The Lion Tamers are pleased to select Guy Lapointe, D.

We believe he's a great fit next to Stevens with his skating and puck handling abilities.

West Lafayette is also looking to move down from their next pick, #104.

Almost took him great pick

 

[markrander87]

This was a very hard selection for me, there's about 8 players I have been considering. The player I'm going to draft now was one I almost took with my last pick at #78, but I grabbed Frank Mahovlich instead, plus he's one of the pure Best player available left, so I'm just gonna select him this time. This gives my top 6 some more flexibility and it gives Mario another weapon on his wing. The Pittsburgh Bankers are pleased to select- LW Busher Jackson Here's a decent bio

http://hfboards.mandatory.com/showpost.php?p=62721081&postcount=245

It was between Jackson and Lapointe for us, great pick as well.

 

[tinyzombies]

I will take the great Joe Malone.

 

[seventieslord]

Great pick with Malone. I think I would have taken him on my next pick if he lasted that long. I sure didn't like him in the 44-65 range, where he went for a few years, but 98th looks great and he'd have been dynamite at 110th.

He's the best offensive center on the board, and although some other guys are arguably more valuable, they bring other skills that are mostly replaceable from other players, and Malone's offense really isn't.

 

[tinyzombies]

Great pick with Malone. I think I would have taken him on my next pick if he lasted that long. I sure didn't like him in the 44-65 range, where he went for a few years, but 98th looks great and he'd have been dynamite at 110th.

He's the best offensive center on the board, and although some other guys are arguably more valuable, they bring other skills that are mostly replaceable from other players, and Malone's offense really isn't.

Sets me up for problems down the road but I couldn't avoid taking him. Also I seem to recall him moving over to LW with Lalonde one year. So with permission I might sneak him in over there?

Fedorov would have been nice vs Mario though..

Yep: "Playing on what was one of the most powerful forward lines of all time with Newsy Lalonde and Xxx, Malone shifted to left wing to accommodate the great Lalonde, and was the NHL's first scoring leader, registering 44 goals in 20 games..."

 

[VanIslander]

I was hoping this would be the year that Fedorov fell back to the 140-160 range, which is the earliest that he should go imo relative to other options at center (I'd consider drafting him someday when he's available around 200th).

 

[ResilientBeast]

I was hoping this would be the year that Fedorov fell back to the 140-160 range, which is the earliest that he should go imo relative to other options at center (I'd consider drafting him someday when he's available around 200th).

200? That's a little extreme no? The HOH list has him at 29, this year he was the 27th taken.

 

[VanIslander]

200? That's a little extreme no? The HOH list has him at 29, this year he was the 27th taken.

Does it?

(Clicks away to check the HOH list.)

Return: Hmm. I see at least 6 centers ranked lower than him that I thought should be drafted before him (up to 9 arguably).

I guess we'll have to re-visit this afterwards.

 

[seventieslord]

Sets me up for problems down the road but I couldn't avoid taking him. Also I seem to recall him moving over to LW with Lalonde one year. So with permission I might sneak him in over there?

Fedorov would have been nice vs Mario though..

Yep: "Playing on what was one of the most powerful forward lines of all time with Newsy Lalonde and Xxx, Malone shifted to left wing to accommodate the great Lalonde, and was the NHL's first scoring leader, registering 44 goals in 20 games..."

One season doesn't make a player a LW in the ATD; I would not recommend this.

I know the temptation exists to make any legitimate C/LW or C/RW player a winger to be able to stack our rosters with more quality, and in some cases that works, but I don't think one season even makes Malone a C/LW.

200? That's a little extreme no? The HOH list has him at 29, this year he was the 27th taken.

....uhh yeah, that's really extreme.

 

[seventieslord]

Does it?

(Clicks away to check the HOH list.)

Return: Hmm. I see at least 6 centers ranked lower than him that I thought should be drafted before him (up to 9 arguably).

I guess we'll have to re-visit this afterwards.

But even if it's 9, he would be very unlikely to get even to 140, wouldn't he?

 

[ResilientBeast]

Sets me up for problems down the road but I couldn't avoid taking him. Also I seem to recall him moving over to LW with Lalonde one year. So with permission I might sneak him in over there?

Fedorov would have been nice vs Mario though..

Yep: "Playing on what was one of the most powerful forward lines of all time with Newsy Lalonde and Xxx, Malone shifted to left wing to accommodate the great Lalonde, and was the NHL's first scoring leader, registering 44 goals in 20 games..."

I was considering him to play with Taylor, seventies said it wouldn't be wise but Sturminator had said he'd be fine in that position. So it's really your call, I personally think it would be okay since he had literally the best season of his career at that position. But some will argue against it