As of TODAY, where is McDavid on the all time list in your opinion?

[Fourier]

At this rate he will be right beside Lemieux. But in order to achieve that status he has to win a couple cups. It's a big ask for the inept organization he plays for.

Setting aside whether or not the Oilers are as inept as you say do you not see the obvious clash between your two bolded sentences?

 

[bleedgreen]

He’s in my top ten. Hopefully he stays healthy enough to be an obvious top ten with or without a cup. To me he’s a top five contender and things have to go wrong for him to not achieve it. He’s the best player since Lemieux imo. I don’t know that I would ever put him higher than Mario but his path currently takes him into the highest group possible. If he gets a cup and maintains this level he’s in the top five.

Today? I think he’s legit for top ten. Which is pretty amazing.

 

[Hockey Outsider]

Thats still completely ignoring any postseason success, which most here will agree is insanely important for a players legacy.

If you're counting the number of Stanley Cups won? Yes, agreed.

But McDavid has already led the playoffs in scoring twice. A few of the players on that list never even did it once (Clarke, Jagr, Ovechkin). Several more did that only one time (Beliveau, Hull, Mikita, Messier, Crosby). A few match McDavid (Richard, Lemieux). Only a small handful have exceeded what McDavid did (Gretzky, Howe, Lafleur, Esposito). By this method, McDavid is already tied for #4 on the list. Plus he has a Conn Smythe. Only three players on the list (Gretzky, Lemieux and Crosby) have more (though some of them - like Beliveau - probably would have won multiple Conn Smythe's, had that trophy been around for their entire careers). The only player ahead of McDavid on both lists is Gretzky.

Ultimately, I think you and I are in agreement. McDavid has only played in 74 playoff games, and I want to see more longevity from him. But if he maintains this level of performance, I don't particularly care if he wins a Stanley Cup.

 

[amnesiac]

Did anyone read the OP?

TODAY

So a player 99th in scoring with 0 Cups is top 10 to ever play the game? Assuming you take the name away and simply list stats, no one would say that. This is insulting to the real greats.

He will get there, I have zero doubt barring a career ending injury, but he isnt yet. Take the goggles off.

3 Harts, 4 Art Rosses, 1 Conn Smythe in 9 seasons

already 3rd all-time in PPG so far, playing in a lower scoring era (than the 80s and early 90s). Of course we're yet to see what he can being in his 30s, so time will tell. But then we still consider say, Mike Bossy top 20 or 30 despite his short career. McDavid is undoubtedly ahead of Bossy at this point. Say what you want.

The "necessity" for winning the Cup to considered top 10 has become overrated now in a post cap 32 team era. It absolutely changes everything. Gretzky couldnt even win it after being traded. Bourque and Hasel only won when they were traded to a contender. Not Dionne's fault he was on a shit Kings team most of his career... Park, Iginla, Thronton, Stastny, etc etc

 

[Daximus]

While I agree it’s harder than ever, a lot of the old greats also won multiple. I still think the transcendent talents will usually find a way in part because teams will always keep trying to win with them and they’ll be elite for a long time. I’d be surprised if McDavid ended up never winning. Though I wouldn’t expect more than one at this point (though he might).

But they also won multiple in a league with far fewer teams, far lower salaries and no salary cap. There is a good argument to be maid that most of the teams these players played on would be nearly impossible to construct and keep in a modern cap world. And despite what many think absoutely none of them did it entirely by themselves. Even Gretzky as evidenced by his lack of Cups post Edmonton and Edmontons cup win without him.

 

[Regal]

But they also won multiple in a league with far fewer teams, far lower salaries and no salary cap. There is a good argument to be maid that most of the teams these players played on would be nearly impossible to construct and keep in a modern cap world. And despite what many think absoutely none of them did it entirely by themselves. Even Gretzky as evidenced by his lack of Cups post Edmonton and Edmontons cup win without him.

I’m not dismissing those advantages. My point is that those advantages often led to multiple cups. I think we’re still in a league where the best of the best should be able to win at least 1 in their career unless it’s significantly shortened. The cap’s lack of super teams also means it’s easier for a team to turn into a winner as they don’t have to face those super teams either. I think we’ll see a lot more Thornton/Iginla types without a cup. But we’ll still see the McDavid/Crosby/Ovechkin types win at least 1 unless the league adds a ton more teams.

 

[Daximus]

I’m not dismissing those advantages. My point is that those advantages often led to multiple cups. I think we’re still in a league where the best of the best should be able to win at least 1 in their career unless it’s significantly shortened. The cap’s lack of super teams also means it’s easier for a team to turn into a winner as they don’t have to face those super teams either. I think we’ll see a lot more Thornton/Iginla types without a cup. But we’ll still see the McDavid/Crosby/Ovechkin types win at least 1 unless the league adds a ton more teams.

Everything came together for Ovis win. If not for that one season good chance he retires cupless at this point. The cap enforces that some teams are just going to make bad decisions more often and in doing so limit their teams chances at winning a Cup. Of course McDavid has the power now to put himself in a better situation to achieve that goal. We'll see if he takes it or chooses to ride with the Oilers until the end. Balls in his court.

 

[rickthegoon]

For the longest time I felt Mario Lemieux was the best offensive talent I have ever seen. I started watching NHL hockey in 1990.

I'm not so sure anymore.

Lemieux in this new ‘ no holding by defenders allowed would probably get 300 pts/year.

 

[Voight]

He's a top-10 player and it's really not questionable. He's done things with a consistency that very, very few players have ever matched.

Or to put another way, he is at LEAST wherever Jagr is.

Example - last season was the first time in his career he did not finish 1st or 2nd in points.

(excluding his rookie year obviously)