Player Discussion Artem Zub (D) Part 2 [Extended 4 years @ $4.6M]

[playasRus]

I would have preferred the 1 year deal as well so he's still RFA but do we even know if he would accept that? Zub has good leverage for an RFA, he's a fairly young KHL vet and just had a good season in the NHL. There's no doubt a decent multi-year contract was waiting for him in the KHL if he wanted it.

I'm under the impression that a 1 year contract e.g. at 2.5 M gives Zub arbitration rights. So if he impresses as much as y'all make him out to be, what would arbitrators give him? Sounds like many of you think it's already worth 4.0-4.5M so he'd be at least that for what is currently year 2/2 of a 2.5 M yearly average.

1 year sounds like the worst option to me.

The ideal length remains 3 years which would be a compromise from both parties, he gives a little by 1 "cheap" UFA year at 3-3.5 M, we give him an insurance year "in case he Zaitsevs."

2 years was the next best option imo, and possibly the best option tabled by the Zub party.

Dorion got the right contract (not the perfect contract), he only edged up the presser.

 

[Wondercarrot]

I think it’s weird. PD sounds pretty much like every single other GM on the planet when he talks to the media.

He is never going to divulge things to the press that he doesn’t want to. Someone else speaking for the org may sound more polished, but they will say the same things. Media will still eventually want to speak to the man who makes the decisions, not a mouth piece.

Some people in here don’t like the man and it clouds their opinions.

Of course he’s going to say the timing works great for the organization. It’s the right thing to say for the fans, and it’s the right thing to say to Zub and his reps. He’s putting it out there that the team is good regardless of what happens, and that’s just if Zub’s camp was the one that insisted on two.

You want transparency from a person and a job that has never ever happened and never ever will. That sounds like a problem with expectations, and making things personal.

Also, there is nothing idiotic about the potential of either young defence man in two years.

lol
So I hate Pierre and he sounds like every other GM. False on both counts but it’s your opinion I guess so you’re welcome to it.
Also pretty sure I don’t put words in your mouth so how about not stuffing them into mine.
You’re part of a contingent on here that chooses not to acknowledge or see it - as is your choice - I just think it’s absurd.

Me personally I’ve said this season was a big success, that DJ turned things around, and Pierre deserves credit for finding Zub along with drafting and scouting.
However because I think this deal is silly & he doesn’t know how to communicate and makes him sound like an idiot to a fan base looking for non stupid things said - it clearly means I hate him.
or you know, just calling it what it is...

 

[Ice-Tray]

lol
So I hate Pierre and he sounds like every other GM. False on both counts but it’s your opinion I guess so you’re welcome to it.
Also pretty sure I don’t put words in your mouth so how about not stuffing them into mine.
You’re part of a contingent on here that chooses not to acknowledge or see it - as is your choice - I just think it’s absurd.

Me personally I’ve said this season was a big success, that DJ turned things around, and Pierre deserves credit for finding Zub along with drafting and scouting.
However because I think this deal is silly & he doesn’t know how to communicate and makes him sound like an idiot to a fan base looking for non stupid things said - it clearly means I hate him.
or you know, just calling it what it is...

Yeah, I mean, you seem all fired up.

I think some people don’t like the way he communicates, it makes them angry and drives them to insult the guy. That is what it is, very true. I think it’s pointless and petty, and speaks so much more about the people doing the insulting, but that’s for a different discussion.

The message he conveys is pretty much what every GM of every team does, which is to say doesn’t give much away about what’s actually going on, and paints as rosie a picture as possible of most things. Trying to extrapolate exact truths from the words of a coach or GM should be taken with a massive grain of salt, and be accompanied by a healthy portion of common sense and context. Both the later are seemingly rare in here as they get in the way.

Personally I think JBD will be a top 4 defender in two years, and given what both coaches have said about Tompson, I’m happy to see how he ends up after 2 years as well. I also believe that if we want Zub to stay in 2 years, and he wants to stay, then a deal will be easy enough to come to.

Not really seeing the need to call people idiots and get riled up. Just callin’ it as I see it.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

He would be a UFA at exactly the same time if he signed a 1 year deal instead of 2.

Walk me through that.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Yeah, I mean, you seem all fired up.

I think some people don’t like the way he communicates, it makes them angry and drives them to insult the guy. That is what it is, very true. I think it’s pointless and petty, and speaks so much more about the people doing the insulting, but that’s for a different discussion.

The message he conveys is pretty much what every GM of every team does, which is to say doesn’t give much away about what’s actually going on, and paints as rosie a picture as possible of most things. Trying to extrapolate exact truths from the words of a coach or GM should be taken with a massive grain of salt, and be accompanied by a healthy portion of common sense and context. Both the later are seemingly rare in here as they get in the way.

Personally I think JBD will be a top 4 defender in two years, and given what both coaches have said about Tompson, I’m happy to see how he ends up after 2 years as well. I also believe that if we want Zub to stay in 2 years, and he wants to stay, then a deal will be easy enough to come to.

Not really seeing the need to call people idiots and get riled up. Just callin’ it as I see it.

Im hardly angry, it’s a message board for pretty hard core fans. I’m certainly not basing his ability to communicate effectively on this issue, it’s just another in a long line. You don’t care, good for you - there is a good bunch of cheerleaders here who also don’t care and will apologize for anything the org says or does - I’m tired of the org looking like fools unless we win lots of games so people overlook it.

This has run its course. We disagree.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Im hardly angry, it’s a message board for pretty hard core fans. I’m certainly not basing his ability to communicate effectively on this issue, it’s just another in a long line. You don’t care, good for you - there is a good bunch of cheerleaders here who also don’t care and will apologize for anything the org says or does - I’m tired of the org looking like fools unless we win lots of games so people overlook it.

This has run its course. We disagree.

Agreed, though I do see where you are coming from for what it’s worth.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Agreed, though I do see where you are coming from for what it’s worth.

Same, though also I hope it sort of goes without saying after all this time lol

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

 

[PatrickEaves]

I understand and accept it being a mistake not starting the season with him. But they didn't think throughout the ENTIRE GIANT LOSING STREAK to change it up and let him play? 3 games of terrible play by our defense not enough? 5? 7?

 

[Sens Vader]

When Zub drives a car off a lot, it increases in value.

He once had an awkward moment, just to see how it feels.

Men want to be him, Ladies want to be with him.

 

[Xspyrit]

This should be in the grade last off-season thread

What a breath of fresh air, DJ admitting openly that they made mistakes. And there’s still fans “defending” them even if they don’t think they should be defended themselves. Would be good to hear Dorion do the same. DJ just scored a few points in my book

I understand and accept it being a mistake not starting the season with him. But they didn't think throughout the ENTIRE GIANT LOSING STREAK to change it up and let him play? 3 games of terrible play by our defense not enough? 5? 7?

He first played in game #10 IIRC

 

[swiftwin]

I understand and accept it being a mistake not starting the season with him. But they didn't think throughout the ENTIRE GIANT LOSING STREAK to change it up and let him play? 3 games of terrible play by our defense not enough? 5? 7?

They couldn't mid-road trip because of covid restrictions.

 

[SpezDispenser]

I love this player.

 

[JD1]

This should be in the grade last off-season thread

What a breath of fresh air, DJ admitting openly that they made mistakes. And there’s still fans “defending” them even if they don’t think they should be defended themselves. Would be good to hear Dorion do the same. DJ just scored a few points in my book



He first played in game #10 IIRC

I think in Zub's case what I've seen written is

No camp to speak of
No exhibition games
No ability to converse with him

Apart from the goal, Zub's strength isn't that he's spectacular or makes spectacular plays, it's that he makes simple plays consistently and doesn't mess up.

Without a lot of knowing of his game it's not hard to see how he wouldn't stand out in last season's abbreviated preparation

Smith called it a mistake on himself. He was there. He was on the ice for those prep sessions. He didn't see it without game conditions. Kinda says it wasn't easy to see

It is what it is. A shifty set of circumstances to start last year.

 

[Ouroboros]

DJ is taking the hit for mis-evaluating the player, and I'm sure that played a role, but the truth is he didn't have any access to Zub even if he wanted to play him.

The Senators started the season with a full 23-man roster which means they couldn't activate anybody from the taxi squad barring injury, illness, or first waiving a player to make room.

Zub finally got into his first game due to injuries to Wolanin and Chabot. He took the ball and ran with it and a few days later Coburn was waived so they could keep him on the roster and also activate Brannstrom.

Had there been a full camp he'd have probably just made the roster then and there, likely at Christian Wolanin's expense.

In the end it all worked out - Zub became a player, Wolanin went on the trash pile and the Sens squeezed a draft pick out of Coburn.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

this is such a big L. He's in practice every day and as a coach you can't tell he's good while the team is icing the worst defensive corps in recent memory?

I was willing to cut him some slack because some people mentioned that they wanted to ease in Zub. Doesn't seem like that was the case.

We play Zub and Bran from the beginning and we're in the playoffs. Instead its the 10 pick and Tyler Boucher.

Good on him for admitting it though will make him a better coach.

 

[PlayersLtd]

this is such a big L. He's in practice every day and as a coach you can't tell he's good while the team is icing the worst defensive corps in recent memory?

I was willing to cut him some slack because some people mentioned that they wanted to ease in Zub. Doesn't seem like that was the case.

We play Zub and Bran from the beginning and we're in the playoffs. Instead its the 10 pick and Tyler Boucher.

Good on him for admitting it though will make him a better coach.

Very unlikely that properly utilizing Zub through that first road trip would have resulted in 9 more points gained and a playoff spot. Had we thrown 3 games to MTL sure, but that wasn't the case.

Also, Bran was in COVID protocol early and throwing him to the wolves was unlikely to yield a better result. He needed to be eased in, maybe that allowed him to play better late. I'm convinced that for better or worse we had a program for that road trip and we were sticking to it no matter what in order to insulate a young and potentially fragile team.

The whole situation was a gong show to begin last year and our team was bound to handle it worse than others. Let's be thankful we were as bad as we were (yet saw many positives, Zub being one) and ended up with a high(ish) pick. Nothing worse than picking + - 20th after a write off season.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

He's played 40 some games against only six teams in the league. There just isn't enough sample size to suggest he should have earned a long contract. Three would have been decent, but two is perfect for the risk/reward.

This guy cracked the russian National team as 21 year old and been a fixture since. He was arguably his NHL teams best defenceman last year.

You don't do these things by accidents and you certainly don't play like Zub does by accident.
If we were shrewd we would have extended him for 3.5 -4.3/.5 mill for 4 years. Would have been perfect.

Now our best #3 since in 10 + years is gonna walk or cost much more to retain.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

This guy cracked the russian National team as 21 year old and been a fixture since. He was arguably his NHL teams best defenceman last year.

You don't do these things by accidents and you certainly don't play like Zub does by accident.
If we were shrewd we would have extended him for 3.5 -4.3/.5 mill for 4 years. Would have been perfect.

Now our best #3 since in 10 + years is gonna walk or cost much more to retain.

Is this Hale’a alt account?

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

Very unlikely that properly utilizing Zub through that first road trip would have resulted in 9 more points gained and a playoff spot. Had we thrown 3 games to MTL sure, but that wasn't the case.

Also, Bran was in COVID protocol early and throwing him to the wolves was unlikely to yield a better result. He needed to be eased in, maybe that allowed him to play better late. I'm convinced that for better or worse we had a program for that road trip and we were sticking to it no matter what in order to insulate a young and potentially fragile team.

The whole situation was a gong show to begin last year and our team was bound to handle it worse than others. Let's be thankful we were as bad as we were (yet saw many positives, Zub being one) and ended up with a high(ish) pick. Nothing worse than picking + - 20th after a write off season.

Aside from the good vibes and experience we got from the run, the season result went as bad as you can draw it up.

Basically eliminated from playoff contention in the first month because of the GMs and coaches roster decisions, AND just missing out on three players in Eklund, Guenther, and Brandt who can be the best from the draft. Only to get a player with no upside to be the best from the draft.

And I disagree, defence is everything in the NHL and we were playing AHLers or bad 3rd pair d and insulating them with other AHLers or bad 3rd pair d. It is inevitable your team will suck when the D is so bad.

Zub is a rock and would have done much better job to stabilize that situation. Even if we still had losing record it would be a lot better than the 2(3?) wins we managed in the first 10-13 games.

Though I do see your point too. Despite the bad result of the last season it was very promising too. I haven't felt like that about a teams since 2014. A lot of our young core players had really good seasons. Norris, Brann, Stutzle, Batherson, Zub, even Pinto, all rookies to a varying degree but they all responded well to shouldering bigger burdens. Without even including Tkachuk and Chabot that is a really solid young NHL core.

 

[SlapJack]

This guy cracked the russian National team as 21 year old and been a fixture since. He was arguably his NHL teams best defenceman last year.

You don't do these things by accidents and you certainly don't play like Zub does by accident.
If we were shrewd we would have extended him for 3.5 -4.3/.5 mill for 4 years. Would have been perfect.

Now our best #3 since in 10 + years is gonna walk or cost much more to retain.

I love Zub and would agree that he was the team's most dependable defender in the role he was given. Played smart, mistake free hockey for most of the year.

Don't forget though, once he was thrust into the top pairing at the end of the season due to all the injuries, that mistake free moniker came off and he made a few plays over the last couple of games that ended up in the back of the net.

I'm still confident that he's going to be a solid 2nd pairing guy and maintain his smart play, but he's still a mystery box. Rolling out the Brinks truck on a longer term for a guy you've seen play less than 50 games is how Toronto got into the Zaitsev situation. They've got Zub locked up for 2 more years; if he keeps up his level of play over that period, they can still try to retain him and for the type of player that he is, it's not like he'll command $7M/yr next contract.

This also gives options for Ottawa when guys like JBD, Thomson, and whoever else may emerge on the right side come knocking for a job. They have 3 years left of Zaitsev and a ton of contracts on their young guns that are coming up over that time. A lot is going to change over the next 2 years and the cap will be a concern come 2023. Stuetzle, Pinto, Norris, JBD, and Formenton, will all need new contracts before 2023, and Sanderson in 2024. That's potentially $25-30M in AAV to be added, even more including Tkachuk when he eventually signs.

 

[bert]

If ya can't see Zub is a very good player and this contract was a very poor outcome for Ottawa then I think that's on the poster. The team has had no depth on d since the early 2000's. Had a ton of cap space that could have got him signed long term but chose to cheap out. I think Zub knew exactly what he was doing. He saw that other than Chabot the rest of the D core are bottom pairing. So he took less money knowing he has no internal competition for Ice and is going to get walked right into a massive pay day.

 

[JD1]

If ya can't see Zub is a very good player and this contract was a very poor outcome for Ottawa then I think that's on the poster. The team has had no depth on d since the early 2000's. Had a ton of cap space that could have got him signed long term but chose to cheap out. I think Zub knew exactly what he was doing. He saw that other than Chabot the rest of the D core are bottom pairing. So he took less money knowing he has no internal competition for Ice and is going to get walked right into a massive pay day.

I think it's a little off base calling all our guys bottom pair guys but I would have liked to see him signed longer

 

[bert]

I think it's a little off base calling all our guys bottom pair guys but I would have liked to see him signed longer

They are, which has proven to not be bottom pairing guys? It's going to be the main reason this team struggles and has been for the past three years. An awful d core. You'd argue anything I post not sure why I bothered to respond at all or in general with you. You'd rather argue even if you know you're wrong.

 

[SensFactor]

Offering Zub a 2 year deal will come and bite the Sens in the butt later...