Player Discussion Artem Zub (D) Part 2 [Extended 4 years @ $4.6M]

[inthewings]

Nothing to complain about here. Zub brings more than 2.5M in value to the table. I know we would have liked to see more term, but that's a good d-man signed on the cheap for two years.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

I'm OK with this deal for sure. Glad he's locked up. I would have preferred 4 years but I'm sure his agent is no dummy and knows he's got a player who just needs to prove it for a season or two more.

So glad to have him back.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The Arty Party just keeps getting better

 

[GCK]

Dorion seems to think Lassi will be playing at a top 4 level in 2 years. With Zaitsev being an "elite defender" and JBD also playing at a top 4 level, it's clear the plan is to move on from Zub in 2 years.

This plan is really stupid because Zub is still young and valuable and should not be allowed to walk for zero assets just because we have a couple prospects coming through the pipeline. It's also dumb because Lassi won't ever be Zub level or probably even JBD level.

Hopefully we re-sign Zub after Lassi almost certainly proves he's not capable of replacing him, but we'll have to pay him UFA money when we'll hopefully be contending, when we could have likely gotten a discount by taking a chance and offering him term now.

I don’t understand why you are getting so worked up. If Thomson doesn’t develop a lot next year they extend Zub next summer. It’s pretty straightforward.

 

[GCK]

For me another year ends as an RFA and we get a chance to sign him and he has another show me year under his belt

Glad he signed

The 2 year deal is no different. If he is great next year extend him.

 

[playasRus]

The 2 year deal is no different. If he is great next year extend him.

Does a 1 year deal make sense? Wouldn't he just take us to arbitration after 1 year and we'd have an even bigger headache? If he's so good that people are pining for 4 years, he'll likely command a big pay raise after a year.

If he's worth 4 x 4 at UFA, he can start a bidding war. At worst, he get sa terrible career ending life altering injury and loses out on a total of 4 x 4M - 5M = 11M.
More likely he ends up signing his big UFA contract after a bidding war as a upper tier middle pairing D in his prime with someone paying him 6 x 5M, making 30 M + 5M instead of making 16M and not getting as big of a retiring contract as a 29 y.o. post prime + 4 x 4M, again.

He can hope after his 5M that in two years, he breaks out as a top end UFA that gets 6 x 6M.

It makes sense for him to try to get to UFA right away rather than the guaranteed extra 10M. Guy wasn't making nothing in the KHL as an Olympic gold medalist. He will be looking to maximize his earnings, not claw for the quickest pay out he'll get.

Not that I think a 4.5/3 year deal would be detrimental or that there will be plenty of turnover in the coming years but there's obviously cap/budget considerations here as well. We will see how the Tkachuk and Batherson contracts play out but there's just so many guys we have to sign between now and then. Norris, Formenton, Stutzle, Pinto and perhaps Connor Brown. JBD and Thomson will both be coming off their ELC 2 years from now. Maybe at that time we need to move on from Zub and give his place in the lineup to a younger and cheaper player to keep the core forwards around, maybe he signs another contract when that one is up. It's really difficult to project where this team will be in two years. At the very least this contracts allows flexibility.

It also takes bargaining power away from future young D coming off ELCs. I'd be surprised if either of JBD/Thomson demang more than a 2.5-3M x 2-3 year bridge after their ELCs, even if both stick full time with the team by end of next season. Gives us 4 years to sort out the D and even Sanderson's extension if we want to go the 8 M x 8 route or the 5 M x 3 route.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

I don’t understand why you are getting so worked up. If Thomson doesn’t develop a lot next year they extend Zub next summer. It’s pretty straightforward.

Not saying it's the hugest deal but if Zub gets 30 points and continues to play great defense for another year then he's going to be PRICY to re-sign. This was our chance to get him locked up at bargain rates for years to come.

I don't think it matters though, as I'd bet good money that Zub's camp didn't want anything more than 2 years. They saw what we saw. He's good and will get paid as such once he has more of a track record.

 

[GCK]

Not saying it's the hugest deal but if Zub gets 30 points and continues to play great defense for another year then he's going to be PRICY to re-sign. This was our chance to get him locked up at bargain rates for years to come.

I don't think it matters though, as I'd bet good money that Zub's camp didn't want anything more than 2 years. They saw what we saw. He's good and will get paid as such once he has more of a track record.

It’s obvious both sides like the deal since it got done so fast.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The 2 year deal is no different. If he is great next year extend him.

there is a difference

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

I wanted more, but I'll take it.

These words are basically a summary of my adult life.

happy about Zub signing though.

 

[guyzeur]

Dorion seems to think Lassi will be playing at a top 4 level in 2 years. With Zaitsev being an "elite defender" and JBD also playing at a top 4 level, it's clear the plan is to move on from Zub in 2 years.

This plan is really stupid because Zub is still young and valuable and should not be allowed to walk for zero assets just because we have a couple prospects coming through the pipeline. It's also dumb because Lassi won't ever be Zub level or probably even JBD level.

Hopefully we re-sign Zub after Lassi almost certainly proves he's not capable of replacing him, but we'll have to pay him UFA money when we'll hopefully be contending, when we could have likely gotten a discount by taking a chance and offering him term now.

About Lassi: GMs will never say the truth about their prospects. Long shots don't always pan out.

About Zub: We could extend him in one year or trade him and get a good return or pay his value as a UFA.

Your right to be upset, Zub has been a nice pick up.

 

[GCK]

there is a difference

In all practicality it is the same. 1 year deal for Zub takes him to Arb next summer which takes him to UFA in 2 years.

 

[Cosmix]

Thanks for update that’s awesome! Anyone have realistic list of FA available ?

I shall believe Pierre when I see him do as he just said. Until then, I will not.

 

[Cosmix]

You yourself suggested $4-5M I believe. Even if not, $4M still means you're overpaying by $1.5M the next 2 years. If he's worth $4-5M in a couple years than give it to him. But oh wait maybe another team will give him that. Then offer him more than the competitor. If you're okay with overpaying now, then you should be in a couple of years.

But do it now because you are "hoping he continues to develop and play" at a high level. Just like they did with Chabot. Except Chabot was a highly touted player since he was drafted. He has been expected to be good for a while and the early performance in the NHL indicated he could be better than expected. That was after two seasons in the league. Zub is a 25 (26 when next season starts) year old undrafted player that took some time to reach where he is now. He has played approximately 40 games total. He is far less likely to improve a huge amount.

Listen, I don't like feeling like I am arguing against Zub. I just find the negativity on this signing confusing. The biggest reason for that is my belief that Zub wasn't signing anything longer than a 2 year deal. As much as the Senators would have possibly liked to have him longer. He was either going to sign two consecutive one year deals or the two year deal he did sign.

After the criticism for White and Murray's deal I am surprised there are people advocating Dorion should have signed him for more years and more AAV.

I would have liked to see a 3 year deal: 2.5, 2.5, 3.0-3.5. I don't see Zub becoming a $4 or $5M defenseman.

 

[Cosmix]

The Arty Party just keeps getting better

I'm confused. But that is my near-normal state.

 

[Agent Zub]

Already one of my fave Senators ever.

 

[DrEasy]

Smart deal for Zub. He's betting on himself. He probably wanted no part of a longer deal. I guess we'll enjoy him while we still have him.

PS: the argument that it's ok to let him go in two years because our right side will be fine in two years is very stupid.

 

[Ice-Tray]

PD said in his presser that it was 1.8 and then 3.2 I believe.

Good deal for everyone involved, the hot takes in here would have flip-flopped had PD gone for more term. Opposite Day in elementary school.

That is the way of HF Sens.

 

[playasRus]

PD said in his presser that it was 1.8 and then 3.2 I believe.

Good deal for everyone involved, the hot takes in here would have flip-flopped had PD gone for more term. Opposite Day in elementary school.

That is the way of HF Sens.

Queue the "back loaded contract to be traded" crowd

 

[Cosmix]

I see Zub as similar to DeMelo who got a 3 year deal at $3M per:
Dylan DeMelo - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

I see Zub as similar to DeMelo who got a 3 year deal at $3M per:
Dylan DeMelo - CapFriendly - NHL Salary Caps

Might want to check your numbers again

 

[SENATOR]

RHD is an absolute rare commodity in NHL.
You keep what you got, until you die. Would like Anaheim Ducks to have a nice upgrade on Kevin Shattenkirk cap hit $4 million for their rebuild?
John Carlson is just finished a season with 44 points but -5 and 8 million cup hit
Ryan Ellis finished the season with 18 points +10 cup hit 6 million.
Alex Pietrangelo has 23 points +16 cup hit 9 million dollars. I think Zub can easy outperform those stats on improving Sens team.
Shea Weber looks like he is almost done. 19 points tons of PP time and -4 at the age of 35. 8 million dollars.
Keith Yandle 27 points not so great defensively -8 on a very good team. 34 years old. 6.5 million dollars.
Those are the best RHD in the league right now. And they are all much older then Zub and slowing down.
Montreal would kill to have Zub as any other team in this league. Zub if he plays the same next year or even better, can command a number one pick if he traded.
And Dorion just walked him down on a red carpet to the free agency at the age of 27.
You out of your mind, if you think you can develop RHD in one year, because to maximize the return you have to trade Zub then.
Or you have to sign him for at least 6 million a year and give him free agency money for at least 8 years. Because it is the market right now. I do not understand Dorion's logic.
The worst GM in the Sens history, Zub's agent just outplayed him in 3 D chess, as soon as Zub signed on a dotted line.

 

[SENATOR]

And with all due respect to Vladislav Gavrikov he is not in the same universe as Zub. Not even close. He is bigger, slower, not that agile and not that great defensively, with less hockey IQ, finished the season with -13.

 

[FormentonTheFuture]

RHD is an absolute rare commodity in NHL.
You keep what you got, until you die. Would like Anaheim Ducks to have a nice upgrade on Kevin Shattenkirk cap hit $4 million for their rebuild?
John Carlson is just finished a season with 44 points but -5 and 8 million cup hit
Ryan Ellis finished the season with 18 points +10 cup hit 6 million.
Alex Pietrangelo has 23 points +16 cup hit 9 million dollars. I think Zub can easy outperform those stats on improving Sens team.
Shea Weber looks like he is almost done. 19 points tons of PP time and -4 at the age of 35. 8 million dollars.
Keith Yandle 27 points not so great defensively -8 on a very good team. 34 years old. 6.5 million dollars.
Those are the best RHD in the league right now. And they are all much older then Zub and slowing down.
Montreal would kill to have Zub as any other team in this league. Zub if he plays the same next year or even better, can command a number one pick if he traded.
And Dorion just walked him down on a red carpet to the free agency at the age of 27.
You out of your mind, if you think you can develop RHD in one year, because to maximize the return you have to trade Zub then.
Or you have to sign him for at least 6 million a year and give him free agency money for at least 8 years. Because it is the market right now. I do not understand Dorion's logic.
The worst GM in the Sens history, Zub's agent just outplayed him in 3 D chess, as soon as Zub signed on a dotted line.

Literally all of those players are much more offensive than Zub and it’s not close