Player Discussion Artem Zub (D) Part 2 [Extended 4 years @ $4.6M]

scallionjj11

FOREVERALFIE
Jun 10, 2009
2,333
722
East Coast
Well his first deal had to be a one year deal. The second one took him to UFA. I suspect he doesn't want to stick around or he knows going to UFA maximizes his income.

It might just be the Russian thing but when you see the videos of the guys in the room after a win giving out the helmet and shades, he's not into it. There's a good chance he'll move on next year.

But if he does, you try and move him for a replacement. His cap hit is really good for next season so a cap strapped team might be willing to trade a good D on a longer term deal with a higher cap hit.

Assen na yo!
Just because he doesn't seem "into it" when they give out the bike helmet, doesn't mean that necessary the case. That could just be his personality and he doesn't get as hyped up in those moments.

Second hand, I do agree about maximizing his trade value this year if he wants to sign. He'll be a great trade deadline acquisition for someone.
 

SensontheRush

Never said it was Sunshine
Apr 27, 2010
5,021
2,978
Ottawa
"This hurts my preconceived perception so its trash"

Here is Chabot's stats btw

I like Zub, I want to sign him and I think he'll be a real good partner for Sanderson. I just think people are over hyping how good he is simply because next to the other 4 steaming piles on D he looks like a god

Why would you think Zub is a "real good partner for Sanderson" if his analytics are shit?
 

Sweatred

Erase me
Jan 28, 2019
13,408
3,326
If Zub doesn't want to play here this team and its management are even more clown shoes than we all thought (which is saying something).

How does Zub’s potential preference to play in NYC, Florida, LaLa Land, or wherever have anything to do with Dorion?

Could a travel agent convince you you didn’t really want to go to Hawaii and that Saskatoon would be a better destination for your trip?
 
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Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
57,092
34,851
How does Zub’s potential preference to play in NYC, Florida, LaLa Land, or wherever have anything to do with Dorion?

Could a travel agent convince you you didn’t really want to go to Hawaii and that Saskatoon would be a better destination for your trip?
Well, part of Dorion's job is convincing players that they should want to play here, and create an environment that makes this team a desirable destination, so it absolutely has something to do with Dorion. You can argue he's at a disadvantage compared to some teams on that front, and I won't disagree but part of his job is to sell Zub on playing in Ottawa.
 
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Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
57,092
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"This hurts my preconceived perception so its trash"

Here is Chabot's stats btw

I like Zub, I want to sign him and I think he'll be a real good partner for Sanderson. I just think people are over hyping how good he is simply because next to the other 4 steaming piles on D he looks like a god

How many games is the sample? Their site suggests they have 3000+ games tracked, but that's across 6 years, so maybe a dozen or so games? Role and deployment will impact this stuff too, if you're out with the 4th line and paired with Zaitsev or Holden it's different than being out with the Chuck Norris Batherson line paired with Chabot.

I also think the data presented skews towards favouring offensive players and two way players. A defensive Dman will likely always look poor relative to his teammates when many of the categories are more puck movement and offence based.
 

Nac Mac Feegle

wee & free
Jun 10, 2011
35,484
9,888
So then, what is the consensus "fair price" (and number of years) for Zub?

A couple months ago, he was almost unanimously regarded as our #2....now folks are saying anything between #2 and #5. Are we really trying to knock down the guy to get him at a good price (or trying to dull the sting if he does leave), or are we guilty of overhyping him during the last two seasons?
 

Sweatred

Erase me
Jan 28, 2019
13,408
3,326
Well, part of Dorion's job is convincing players that they should want to play here, and create an environment that makes this team a desirable destination, so it absolutely has something to do with Dorion. You can argue he's at a disadvantage compared to some teams on that front, and I won't disagree but part of his job is to sell Zub on playing in Ottawa.
Whatever… its also the job
Of someone at tourism Saskatoon and tourism Hawaii to attract visitors … one has a much more appealing destination, and more resources to accomplish their objective.
 
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Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
57,092
34,851
Whatever… its also the job
Of someone at tourism Saskatoon and tourism Hawaii to attract visitors … one has a much more appealing destination, and more resources to accomplish their objective.
You asked what it has to do with Dorion, the answer is that's his job.

The reality is he already did convince Zub to come to Ottawa rather than those other locations once, Zub was an unrestricted free agent and chose Ottawa. If he no longer wants to be in Ottawa there's not much we can do now but Dorion has had time to sell Zub on Ottawa.
 
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Sweatred

Erase me
Jan 28, 2019
13,408
3,326
You asked what it has to do with Dorion, the answer is that's his job.

The reality is he already did convince Zub to come to Ottawa rather than those other locations once, Zub was an unrestricted free agent and chose Ottawa. If he no longer wants to be in Ottawa there's not much we can do now but Dorion has had time to sell Zub on Ottawa.

I'm out. have a nice day.
 

Tragedy

Registered User
Jan 10, 2013
1,422
922
Regina, SK
Why would you think Zub is a "real good partner for Sanderson" if his analytics are shit?
Because I like Zub. I think he is a good defenceman that can play a good complimentary role for Sanderson. I just don't think he's the second, third and fourth coming of Jesus. He has shit stats because he plays on a shit team, however, Chabot also plays on that same shit team and has much better underlying zone stats because he is a star. Zub is the best of a lot of bad players outside Chabot on D but he isn't Devon Toews here. People throwing around 6M salary for a player who would be a 4D on any team hoping to compete in the playoffs is absolute bananas.
 
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BonHoonLayneCornell

Registered User
Oct 16, 2006
16,999
12,058
Yukon
Haven’t we come to a consensus that it was a mistake to run Stone and Duchene unsigned up to the deadline?

No way we should take the same path again with Zub, no chance.
It's not quite the same situation though.

We now have veterans applying pressure to compete and we're not in the midst of the tear down portion of the rebuild.

how are Chabot and Chucky going to feel about us trading away our only other current top 4 D just before the season?
 

BonHoonLayneCornell

Registered User
Oct 16, 2006
16,999
12,058
Yukon
So then, what is the consensus "fair price" (and number of years) for Zub?

A couple months ago, he was almost unanimously regarded as our #2....now folks are saying anything between #2 and #5. Are we really trying to knock down the guy to get him at a good price (or trying to dull the sting if he does leave), or are we guilty of overhyping him during the last two seasons?
If we can keep it "fair" and reasonable, whatever that number and term is, I think we should just do it.

We shouldn't be allergic to signing all non core guys to term. If they're not grossly overpaid or fall off a cliff, then they can be assets you can move when necessary too. Not everyone turns in to what we saw out of say Zack Smith, Craig Anderson or Bobby Ryan after signing their contracts.
 

Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,621
8,535
Victoria
Well, part of Dorion's job is convincing players that they should want to play here, and create an environment that makes this team a desirable destination, so it absolutely has something to do with Dorion. You can argue he's at a disadvantage compared to some teams on that front, and I won't disagree but part of his job is to sell Zub on playing in Ottawa.
He’s not selling anything directly to the players at contract time. He’s talking to agents that all know the score. He has to lay out the teams direction, the players role on the team, and a contract with dollars and terms. If that’s what you mean by ‘sell’ then sure.

If the player is interested then negotiations can begin. There really isn’t any used car salesman action going on, and agents are serious gatekeepers for preferred destinations.

He’s already laid all the ground work for the rebuild, and he’s already got the leaders locked in long term. If Zub doesn’t want to be a part of it, it won’t be because Dorion didn’t sell him hard enough on the power windows and gas’s mileage.

It’s gotten pretty silly around here.
 
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Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
57,092
34,851
He’s not selling anything directly to the players at contract time. He’s talking to agents that all know the score. He has to lay out the teams direction, the players role on the team, and a contract with dollars and terms. If that’s what you mean by ‘sell’ then sure.

If the player is interested then negotiations can begin. There really isn’t any used car salesman action going on, and agents are serious gatekeepers for preferred destinations.

He’s already laid all the ground work for the rebuild, and he’s already got the leaders locked in long term. If Zub doesn’t want to be a part of it, it won’t be because Dorion didn’t sell him hard enough on the power windows and gas’s mileage.

It’s gotten pretty silly around here.
Well that opinion doesn't align with how the very public Tavares negotiations went

Heck, here's a direct quote from the man himself referencing selling the team to a player

"We can do the best sell job possible, but it’s getting players to commit. It was the same when we signed Brady, he wanted to see a certain commitment from us to be a winner.”

Players want to get the warm fuzzies from the team, that might mean convincing them that we are on the rise, that they will play a particular role, that the team will do what it takes to get to the next stage.
 

Micklebot

Moderator
Apr 27, 2010
57,092
34,851
Dude, you’re wrong it’s ok to admit it. I look fine in the mirror as usual.


Dude, you’re wrong it’s ok to admit it. I look fine in the mirror as usual.
Sure, I'm wrong because you feel like you are the arbitrator of truth regarding a GMs role in attracting free agents. We can agree to disagree here, but you should probably not resort to personal attacks as the basis for your critique.
 

OD99

Registered User
Oct 13, 2012
5,225
4,432
He has to lay out the teams direction, the players role on the team, and a contract with dollars and terms. If that’s what you mean by ‘sell’ then sure.
Of course that's what he means. What do you think it is? They would talk marketing opportunities, profile on ads...a value proposition about raising a kid in Ottawa, etc...
If Zub doesn’t want to be a part of it, it won’t be because Dorion didn’t sell him hard enough on the power windows and gas’s mileage.

It’s gotten pretty silly around here.
The used car salesman snarkiness is leading the charge for being silly.

Something seems to have set you off as all the recent posts have an edge and some condescension in them.
 
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BonHoonLayneCornell

Registered User
Oct 16, 2006
16,999
12,058
Yukon
Well that opinion doesn't align with how the very public Tavares negotiations went

Heck, here's a direct quote from the man himself referencing selling the team to a player

"We can do the best sell job possible, but it’s getting players to commit. It was the same when we signed Brady, he wanted to see a certain commitment from us to be a winner.”

Players want to get the warm fuzzies from the team, that might mean convincing them that we are on the rise, that they will play a particular role, that the team will do what it takes to get to the next stage.
Just look at a lot of other sports. Rolling out the red carpet for players is not uncommon and a big part of the sell job. I don't expect that every time, especially for what we're shopping for, but it seems crazy to imply it isn't a factor for the GM to be able to sell players on the team, location, etc.

Wasn't it the face to face with Tkachuk that finally got it done? Sounds like a bit of a sell job to me. Why couldn't that just be done via email, phone or fax otherwise?
 

SENATOR

Registered User
Feb 6, 2004
2,058
870
Ottawa
Zub spends all his vacation time in Florida. He loves the state. Plus Miami has like 300 thousands Russians there.
 

Ice-Tray

Registered User
Jan 31, 2006
16,621
8,535
Victoria
Of course that's what he means. What do you think it is? They would talk marketing opportunities, profile on ads...a value proposition about raising a kid in Ottawa, etc...

The used car salesman snarkiness is leading the charge for being silly.

Something seems to have set you off as all the recent posts have an edge and some condescension in them.
Yup, having a bad day. My apologies for brining that to the board.

You too @Micklebot, apologies.
 
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bicboi64

Registered User
Aug 13, 2020
5,439
3,528
Brampton
Weegar would probably cost the same amount as Zub would to extend. Unless Zub wants out, I'd rather just try to re-sign him. If we trade Zub for Weegar, we better not be giving up too much since they save $1 million in cap and Weegar has no extension in place and could just leave (even if he's a hometown guy).

Now, I wouldn't mind trading for Weegar AND keeping Zub ;)

Offer them Brannstrom, MDZ at half retained, an a draft pick and see if the Panthers are dumb enough to bite
 

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