Player Discussion Artem Zub (D) Part 2 [Extended 4 years @ $4.6M]

[Micklebot]

Dorion is only proactive when it's time to re-sign goaltenders

Re-signed Holden in advance.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Re-signed Holden in advance.

Overall point still holds though, I think — last time the team re-signed a guy with more than one year left before becoming UFA was 2017 — both Anderson and Borowiecki.

 

[Sun God Nika]

95% of the things we worry about never happen. I'm confident Zub will re-sign here somewhere around 5 yrs & $5 mil. I'm also confident Norris, Formenton & Joseph also re-sign, the others I care less about. The other thing that is important this off season is getting rid of a couple of albatross contracts like White, Zaitsev, Murray & MDZ to a lesser extent. How they do this or whether they do it is another matter.

Things that we were worried about that actually happened

Stone swindling Dorion to UFA.
Duchene only playing here for 1.5 seasons and a 4th overall going the other way.
Loss of a franchise player in EK. (this worked out but still something a respectable organization never does)
Zibanejad turning into a PPG #1C for the rangers and sens left with nothing comparable in value.
Lebreton falling apart.

all come to mind.

 

[SENATOR]

Zub will not resign. He took undercut for a reason and Dorion was informed. Dorion really thought he will have something in JBD and Thomson to replace him. Zub will go south for 5.5-6 million a year, after one more year to a better weather and less of a headache. Now for Dorion to sign him, he needs to offer at least 6 years for 5.5 million, to cover the salary lost of the last year. The cheap pays double at the end.

 

[Knave]

Zub will not resign. He took undercut for a reason and Dorion was informed. Dorion really thought he will have something in JBD and Thomson to replace him. Zub will go south for 5.5-6 million a year, after one more year to a better weather and less of a headache. Now for Dorion to sign him, he needs to offer at least 6 years for 5.5 million, to cover the salary lost of the last year. The cheap pays double at the end.

Yeah I'm not really seeing it either. Zub signed with us to showcase himself in the NHL and show he's worth signing. By the end of his contract he will have done that and he'll test the open market and at that point we've already lost in my opinion. Our team is too cash strapped to afford Zub and RFAs like Stuztle.

Ottawa was more of a choice in the sense of "I'll get primetime minutes".

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Zub will not resign. He took undercut for a reason and Dorion was informed. Dorion really thought he will have something in JBD and Thomson to replace him. Zub will go south for 5.5-6 million a year, after one more year to a better weather and less of a headache. Now for Dorion to sign him, he needs to offer at least 6 years for 5.5 million, to cover the salary lost of the last year. The cheap pays double at the end.

If you're saying that he won't re-sign, then I'm confident he will.

To add to this and not be fully antagonistic... Zub's a fan favourite here and I'm sure he knows it. That still carries some weight. I don't see this as a situation where we'll need to pay way above market. Just pay him a fair value. Zub's never stricken me as more cash-hungry than the next guy.

 

[Agent Zuuuub]

the smart thing would have been to "overpay" him for a 3-4-5 year contract in the first place.

 

[Ouroboros]

I'm not anticipating that he'll be extended.

 

[Tragedy]

Zub will not resign. He took undercut for a reason and Dorion was informed. Dorion really thought he will have something in JBD and Thomson to replace him. Zub will go south for 5.5-6 million a year, after one more year to a better weather and less of a headache. Now for Dorion to sign him, he needs to offer at least 6 years for 5.5 million, to cover the salary lost of the last year. The cheap pays double at the end.

These are Zub's 5v5 stats. Relative to an average 6th defender they are real bad. Now, obviously a big part of that is how terrible our team is and the fact that still puts Zub as our 2nd best defenceman behind Chabot is disgusting.

I only post this to caution putting Zub on a pedestal simply because he was able to tie his own skates which is more than can be said for most of our D men.

I like Zub, I want to re-sign him, I don't want to sign him for 6M a year or whatever craziness is being thrown around

 

[JungleBeat]

People here are acting like he's Devon Towes. Do not overpay and if he doesn't want to sign trade him at the deadline.

 

[slamigo]

Overpay and he's our next Zaitsev. He's good, but I mean he is what he is. On a very good team, he's a 5-6 guy. On Ottawa, he slots in 2-3-4 depending on who makes the club in the Fall.

Don't get me wrong, I love Zub, but Ottawa should not overpay.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Overall point still holds though, I think — last time the team re-signed a guy with more than one year left before becoming UFA was 2017 — both Anderson and Borowiecki.

Yeahhhhhh, but context matters.

We just went through a period of selling off literally everyone. We can’t really expect to be signing guys at the same time as selling them all off.

The fanbase was also terrified that we couldn’t sign our guys off their ELC, or that we wouldn’t be able to sign our guys out of college.

Yet, every year we sign them, including the massive deals for Brady and Batherson, all our college stars come over as planned, and every subsequent year the fear is alive and well with the same folks terrified and angry.

If we can hand-wring and be miserable about the prospects of something occurring, then we’ll do it with gusto, and someone will craft a narrow stat list to support it, and it will become a Sens fact, a Sens myth, and then a Sens fear.

Much like with horror movies you have a laugh at the scary bits to take away their power

 

[PlayOn]

So you are saying he is already gone? Won't sign here?

If so, better trade him, get assets and then really get moving on 2 new top 4 RD.

That is what, "The 50" would do.

How many top 4 RD are being made available this summer?

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Yeahhhhhh, but context matters.

We just went through a period of selling off literally everyone. We can’t really expect to be signing guys at the same time as selling them all off.

The fanbase was also terrified that we couldn’t sign our guys off their ELC, or that we wouldn’t be able to sign our guys out of college.

Yet, every year we sign them, including the massive deals for Brady and Batherson, all our college stars come over as planned, and every subsequent year the fear is alive and well with the same folks terrified and angry.

If we can hand-wring and be miserable about the prospects of something occurring, then we’ll do it with gusto, and someone will craft a narrow stat list to support it, and it will become a Sens fact, a Sens myth, and then a Sens fear.

Much like with horror movies you have a laugh at the scary bits to take away their power

I hear what you're saying, and I agree with most of it. I'm not worried about Zub re-signing because of the recent stability and the lack of Melnyk influence. But that doesn't exactly change the accuracy of what I said, does it? By choice or by circumstance, we haven't re-signed a guy more than a year out from UFA in five years going on six. Was there really not a single guy worth extending sooner than later?

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

Put me in the camp of “I doubt they can extend him”.

Just seems unlikely that we have enough money to go around.

 

[OD99]

How many top 4 RD are being made available this summer?

Plenty for a crafty GM.

Point is if Zub wont be signing you immediately need to shift in to damage control.

 

[Micklebot]

Overall point still holds though, I think — last time the team re-signed a guy with more than one year left before becoming UFA was 2017 — both Anderson and Borowiecki.

Technically you can't sign someone with more than one year left, you have to be in the final year of the contract, we signed Anderson and Boro at the beginning of their eligibility to re-sign, and Holden 6 months in to him being eligible.

I think the Holden signing still qualifies as being pro-active. That said, Boro is the only one that wasn't on the wrong side of 35 whebn the new contract kicked in

 

[Ice-Tray]

I hear what you're saying, and I agree with most of it. I'm not worried about Zub re-signing because of the recent stability and the lack of Melnyk influence. But that doesn't exactly change the accuracy of what I said, does it? By choice or by circumstance, we haven't re-signed a guy more than a year out from UFA in five years going on six. Was there really not a single guy worth extending sooner than later?

Nope, fair enough, and I went off on a tangent because I’ve seen it mentioned in other threads.

Honestly probably not, can you think of a player? We don’t really have any vets that have approached UFA that we wanted to keep outside of the grand sell off (Stone, Duchene).

Don’t most players sign extensions in the off season the year before their deal is up anyways though like all of our RFA’s?

For the last few years we’ve had placeholders and show me guys who needed to be on short deals. Zub will be the first guy we want to keep who is an impending UFA since the sell off season, so we’ll see.

In my opinion we need to learn from the Stone and Duchene situations and trade any layer that doesn’t want to extend, and who has value, before the season starts. Especially is right now because the last thing we need is a distraction all season, culminating with a deadline situation when we really want to be competing in games still.

If Zub doesn’t want to stay that will suck. If it doesn’t come to the lack of a fair deal, then I’ll get over it, but I want PD to know early and get the best deal. It’s always gonna suck, but being smart is the better alternative.

 

[PlayOn]

Plenty for a crafty GM.

Point is if Zub wont be signing you immediately need to shift in to damage control.

Except there really aren’t. If this team wants a RD back for Zub they’re likely getting a younger one, not getting a second one, and this rebuild is going backwards. It’s not all that realistic to assume that you can move him and immediately replace him, which is what makes the decision difficult if you aren’t able to sign him this summer.

 

[OD99]

Except there really aren’t. If this team wants a RD back for Zub they’re likely getting a younger one, not getting a second one, and this rebuild is going backwards. It’s not all that realistic to assume that you can move him and immediately replace him, which is what makes the decision difficult if you aren’t able to sign him this summer.

If we don't resign him then we are in trouble either way.

I'm not suggesting there are easy replacements but there will be FA, Cap strapped teams and other options.

I don't need him moved immediately but keeping him risks injury and removing any option to get assets back.

On the other hand keeping him for a bit allows time to see if JBD/Lassi can act as a replacement by mid season or so.

If he isn't signed you need a plan - bottom line.

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Someone might overpay for Zub.

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Someone might overpay for Zub.

Not if we make a fair offer and re-sign him before he hits UFA.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Haven’t we come to a consensus that it was a mistake to run Stone and Duchene unsigned up to the deadline?

No way we should take the same path again with Zub, no chance.

 

[SensontheRush]

These are Zub's 5v5 stats. Relative to an average 6th defender they are real bad. Now, obviously a big part of that is how terrible our team is and the fact that still puts Zub as our 2nd best defenceman behind Chabot is disgusting.

I only post this to caution putting Zub on a pedestal simply because he was able to tie his own skates which is more than can be said for most of our D men.

I like Zub, I want to re-sign him, I don't want to sign him for 6M a year or whatever craziness is being thrown around

Trash analytics.

Im not going to let a poor attempt at modeling reality cloud the actual observation of reality.

$6m is too much though.

 

[Tragedy]

Trash analytics.

Im not going to let a poor attempt at modeling reality cloud the actual observation of reality.

$6m is too much though.

"This hurts my preconceived perception so its trash"

Here is Chabot's stats btw

I like Zub, I want to sign him and I think he'll be a real good partner for Sanderson. I just think people are over hyping how good he is simply because next to the other 4 steaming piles on D he looks like a god