Arrest over Johnson death / released within 24 hours, investigation remains open

[MikeyMike01]

There are 3 options: assume guilt, assume innocence, remain neutral with an open mind. I just wonder why so few people choose option C.

Not much of a discussion to be had around “let’s wait and see what happens”.

 

[Statto]

There are three levels of decisoin making.

1. It's up to police whether to lay a charge.
2. It's up to the Prosecutors (in this case the UK's Crown Prosecution Service) whether to prosecute the charge; and
3. It's up the judge or jury whether to convict or not

I totally agree these are not easy questions to answer.



So first of all you just have to take my word I'm a lawyer. Other than the fact I hope I'm making sense I'm offering no other proof of that.

But second of all - it's a message board. Have at it.

Just to clarify… the police arrest and investigate, but the CPS decide if they are charged.

 

[DearDiary]

 

[Shrimper]

Currently released on bail. Will be pending further investigation

 

[Forecheck1]

It was a reckless NON Hockey act which caused the unfortunate result.

You are responsible for your actions and Petgrave must pay the consequences of his actions.

 

[Statto]

The Crown Prosecution Service, which deals with deciding if the evidence collected by the police warrants a prosecution disagrees with you, the following is their definition.

Involuntary manslaughter is unlawful killing without the intent to kill or cause really serious harm and is a common law offence. There are two classes of involuntary manslaughter: unlawful act manslaughter and manslaughter by gross negligence.

Fair enough, I learned something. I genuinely thought I read it wasn’t a thing in uk law. I happily stand corrected.

 

[Iwishihadaspacebar]

Just as a pre-empt in case it happens, a person can be given bail (no there is no money involved) and no further action be taken against them in time. Being given bail does not mean a guaranteed conviction / court case in the UK

Want to reiterate this to avoid some confusion

 

[TIGERCOOL]

Just like it's always the goons and career rats "accidentally" sticking their skate into someone's achilles tendon, or hanging a knee into a downed player's head, or getting their stick caught between someone's legs going full speed into the corner... such an often repeated pattern and yet hockey fans always rush to dismiss them as freak accidents. Why? This refusal to believe that anyone could act with intent to seriously injure is absurd, especially concerning guys who have made a career on that exact behaviour. Sure, Petgrave didn't mean to kill him. That's the common denominator with these guys. [MOD]

 

[centipede2233]

Just like it's always the goons and career rats "accidentally" sticking their skate into someone's achilles tendon, or hanging a knee into a downed player's head, or getting their stick caught between someone's legs going full speed into the corner... such an often repeated pattern and yet hockey fans always rush to dismiss them as freak accidents. Why? This refusal to believe that anyone could act with intent to seriously injure is absurd, especially concerning guys who have made a career on that exact behaviour. Sure, Petgrave didn't mean to kill him. That's the common denominator with these guys. [MOD]

Very true. As long as humans roam the earth, bad decisions will always happen.

 

[KnightofBoston]

That was an intentional leg kick. He probably didn’t mean to kill him but that’s manslaughter. I’m sure drunk drivers don’t intend to kill anyone when they get behind the wheel either.

That was an intentional leg kick. He probably didn’t mean to kill him but that’s manslaughter. I’m sure drunk drivers don’t intend to kill anyone when they get behind the wheel either.

If you kill someone drunk driving here in the states, you get charged with premeditated murder. At least where I live. Might be less harsh in other states

The question I have with Petgrave is whether or not they can prove he could reasonably not have lifted his leg that high in that exact moment. Tough thing to prove. If they can’t he shouldn’t be charged. The only way you can argue that was a reckless play is if you prove that in that moment he was capable of not allowing his body to do that. Otherwise you’re setting an extremely bad precedent in an inherently dangerous sport

 

[BahlDeep]

The mere fact that a bunch of nobodies like us are debating if there was any intent proves the need of a deeper investigation

 

[Barrie22]

Isn't there video of him trying this reverse kick previously? Not as unlucky as this one, but him raising his skate behind him and into the opponent's chest.

If that was him in that video then the accidental basically just goes out the window for the reason the player even sustained any kind of injury, let alone being killed.

 

[TeamRenzo]

Saw this comment on Reddit regarding UK laws regarding manslaughter:



The only argument that can be made is that he intentionally kicked Johnson and that it violates one of these, but that seems like a huge stretch. I sincerely doubt he gets charged, but it’s a joke that it’s even getting to this point.

Players are supposed to be in control of their sticks at all times and are penalized if they high-stick someone. Players should be in control of their skates at all times as well.

I am not saying he should be charged but I don't see any issue with investigating the death to see if there was negligence.

 

[Panteras]

The police have stated that they’ve been consulting with highly specialized experts from different fields to assist in the investigation, which apparently has lead to Matt being arrested and released on bail (something which would not have happened without reason), yet you have guys here going full caveman about this :

“Prove it bruh! I just got off the ice 2 hrs ago with my homies, prove it!” Hahahaha

 

[nbwingsfan]

Isn't there video of him trying this reverse kick previously? Not as unlucky as this one, but him raising his skate behind him and into the opponent's chest.

If that was him in that video then the accidental basically just goes out the window for the reason the player even sustained any kind of injury, let alone being killed.

It his the opposition players leg. It’s a nothing play where he missed his check and people are trying to make something out of nothing.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

As he should, hope he gets convicted.

 

[GKJ]

Our own @Appleyard lays it out here. He’s been released as he wasn’t going to be charged within 24 hours, while investigation remains open.

 

[Iwishihadaspacebar]

Our own @Appleyard lays it out here. He’s been released as he wasn’t going to be charged within 24 hours, while investigation remains open.

As an addition, it is likely that he has been bailed for 1 or 3 months (more likely the latter in this case), possibly with conditions about leaving the country. If after the bail period is up and the police still think they need to extend the bail they can do so for a further three months (or longer if approved by a magistrate). If they do not feel the extension is required then the suspect will either be released under investigation, no further action taken (ie no longer under investigation) or further action taken (eg a court date).

That's the general process but can change depending on the individual case.

If the police believe there is a possible case for conviction then this could be a long process due to the complexity.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Trying to sway someone who is ideologically committed like you are to their position is nigh on impossible. There have been many video breakdowns of this from people who played hockey at a high level who give a lot more credence to intentionality than not.

You're just not able to see it in the same way, for some reason.

Ideologically committed to asking for proof before stating that someone should be charged with manslaughter. The horror.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

What sport are you watching where freak accidents happen quite often? Sure isn't pro hockey.

People have been playing hockey for almost 150 years now and incidents like this have happened twice. Clint Malarchuk and Adam Johnson. "Quite often" my ass. In addition to that, this Petgrave douche has a history of lashing out with his skates, there is documented evidence from his time in the OHL.

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

People have been playing hockey for almost 150 years now and incidents like this have happened twice. Clint Malarchuk and Adam Johnson. "Quite often" my ass. In addition to that, this Petgrave douche has a history of lashing out with his skates, there is documented evidence from his time in the OHL.

There was also Zednick, and a high school player died from an injury to the neck a couple years ago. There's also the problematic logic of using the rarity of what seems like a freak accident to prove it wasn't an accident.

Feel free to post the documented evidence from the OHL because all I've seen is a missed hit.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

There was also Zednick, and a high school player died from an injury to the neck a couple years ago. There's also the problematic logic of using the rarity of what seems like a freak accident to prove it wasn't an accident.

Feel free to post the documented evidence from the OHL because all I've seen is a missed hit.

You can find it yourself with a simple Google check. "Missed Hit" .... Must of missed him shooting out his skate when he "missed" his check. This animal should be in jail.

 

[bigdog16]

People have been playing hockey for almost 150 years now and incidents like this have happened twice. Clint Malarchuk and Adam Johnson. "Quite often" my ass. In addition to that, this Petgrave douche has a history of lashing out with his skates, there is documented evidence from his time in the OHL.

Post it then, if its so well documented

You can find it yourself with a simple Google check. "Missed Hit" .... Must of missed him shooting out his skate when he "missed" his check. This animal should be in jail.

Thats not how this works

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

You can find it yourself with a simple Google check. "Missed Hit" .... Must of missed him shooting out his skate when he "missed" his check. This animal should be in jail.

Nah. You made the claim. I'm not going to do your homework for you.

Though it sounds like it's the video already posted in this thread, which means there isn't documented evidence of a prior incident that's relevant.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Not that it really matters in this case, but what exactly happens with the bail money in this? Does Petgrave just lose that money forever even if he’s not charged?