Arrest over Johnson death / released within 24 hours, investigation remains open

[JianYang]

People have been playing hockey for almost 150 years now and incidents like this have happened twice. Clint Malarchuk and Adam Johnson. "Quite often" my ass. In addition to that, this Petgrave douche has a history of lashing out with his skates, there is documented evidence from his time in the OHL.

It's very rare but the zednik incident also comes to mind.

 

[BiolaRunner]

I knew it was older than I originally stated when you pretended to not know where it was and I found it in 30 secs. When the first 3 searches produced the video from 12 yrs ago I knew you were baiting me. I don’t care about your Al bundy days they have no relevance to this conversation. The guy has done this TWICE! And apparently there’s enough evidence to have charged him. You don’t think its odd the one time this has ever happened in the history of professional hockey, it’s surrounded in controversy that it may have been intentional? I’m not saying he tried to kill the guy, but it wasn’t an accident that his skate ended up near his head, for the second time in this predators career. Facts .

They haven't charged him.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

Nah. You made the claim. I'm not going to do your homework for you.

Though it sounds like it's the video already posted in this thread, which means there isn't documented evidence of a prior incident that's relevant.

Missing a hit and throwing out your skate isn't relevant here? Isn't this exactly what killed Johnson? He 'missed' his original check and threw out his skates. Nobody in the history of hockey has avoided a hit by throwing an Owen Hart Spin Wheel kick.

Post it then, if its so well documented


Thats not how this works

It is freely available. And who decides how things work? You? LOL.

 

[LemonSauceD]

Involuntary manslaughter is not a thing in the UK.

Edit: I’m wrong on this point, it is a thing.

Isn’t it culpable homicide? A lot of places have a funky way of saying manslaughter Lol

 

[Frank Drebin]

Internet justice fighters want their vengeance but they're not going to get it.

 

[bigdog16]

Missing a hit and throwing out your skate isn't relevant here? Isn't this exactly what killed Johnson? He 'missed' his original check and threw out his skates. Nobody in the history of hockey has avoided a hit by throwing an Owen Hart Spin Wheel kick.




It is freely available. And who decides how things work? You? LOL.

Making a claim and not backing it up with any proof other than "oh go find it for yourself". So until you provide some proof, my assumption is that you are full of shit.

 

[TheDawnOfANewTage]

This is how you legitimize lynch mob mentality. Only Petgrave himself knows what he intended, but it’s all on video. If there were suspicion of wrongdoing he woulda been arrested and questioned immediately. Police saw the video and didn’t do shit.

But enough big-brainers simply know it was intentional, and were very vocal until the police finally acted just to placate them. Now there’s some sham cursory investigation, and instead of placating the people who wanna see punishment it only legitimizes their stance. Again- I don’t know what Petgrave intended, I think it’s all a tragic accident, but I’m certain they aren’t proving anything in court and instead simply bowed to public pressure. Shame.

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Not that it really matters in this case, but what exactly happens with the bail money in this? Does Petgrave just lose that money forever even if he’s not charged?

Common sense tells me he'd have to get the money back.

 

[KnightofBoston]

The mere fact that a bunch of nobodies like us are debating if there was any intent proves the need of a deeper investigation

all it proves is our media ecosystem tends to spur people into binary categories where they form initial opinions based on emotion and modes of how they frame the world around them


The fact that it's being investigated means the police are respecting Johnson's passing with being thorough. It has zero to do with us internet jackasses

 

[Shrimper]

Our own @Appleyard lays it out here. He’s been released as he wasn’t going to be charged within 24 hours, while investigation remains open.

He shouldn't be naming him as that's a potential contempt of court. But the rest is fairly accurate

 

[PhysicalGraffiti]

The same people defending this dude despite his prior records (which are factual) are the same that would want Tony DeAngelo imprisoned for life for his prior records (most are not factual).

I think too a lot of it is because hockey has had this obsession for race for years now, so there's no way this guy could be guilty or wrong.

As someone who looks more like the "suspect" than "victim in this case", it's one of the things that came to mind to me. I've dealt with it in beer league where people seem to want to be nicer or overly welcoming to show how "inclusive" they are. It's all just disingenuous.

I've been involved in on ice injuries with the skate before, so I understand it's not totally impossible. Just this season my defender and other teams forward crashed into the net and my defender got a decent cut on his cheek from. I had my skates up and it happened so fast.

From several views of this incident I'm leaning towards it looking like that second pump where he pushed the leg out. I don't think, or would hope not, that it was aiming at the throat. That was likely an unintended consequence, but it seemed he forced something there.

Unfortunately we'll never really know, because he's the only one who knows in his heart what happened. But my incident in beer league is with amateur players, guys at this level should be a bit better about controlling their body.

 

[Shrimper]

Not that it really matters in this case, but what exactly happens with the bail money in this? Does Petgrave just lose that money forever even if he’s not charged?

We don't usually bail by money. I suspect this to be the same

 

[KillerMillerTime]

There was also Zednick, and a high school player died from an injury to the neck a couple years ago. There's also the problematic logic of using the rarity of what seems like a freak accident to prove it wasn't an accident.

Feel free to post the documented evidence from the OHL because all I've seen is a missed hit.

Just watched that video and he used his leg in a whip fashion that had elements of the Johnson incident. Yeah now that I saw this incident I am more confident in my original position.

 

[Iwishihadaspacebar]

Not that it really matters in this case, but what exactly happens with the bail money in this? Does Petgrave just lose that money forever even if he’s not charged?

There is no money with bail in the UK

Edit - What Shrimper said above.

 

[dragonballgtz]

I hadn't seen that clip before.

What the hell is he doing? Keep your skates on the ice. He literally spin kicks the guys legs out from under him in that clip.

He realizes he's going to miss the check, and so lifts his leg and kicks the guy to get a piece.

That clip is pretty damning to me.

Fully agree. Just watching the other kick it looked intentional. There was nothing besides himself that made his leg do that motion. Unfortunately, this time, his leg had too much momentum.

With this evidence of another prior kicking incident he 100% knew (kicking wise) what he was doing IMO. Kicking with a blade on the bottom of your feet is beyond dumb and he deserves to be in jail.

 

[Frank Drebin]

The "kick" IMO was a misplaced/stupid way of trying to get in his opponents way and slow him down. But there is no way that you are going to put a guy in jail for that. Sorry guys.

 

[Cup or Bust]

Its the killed Johnsons teammates that are defending the accused Petgrave, not the other way around.

How can we have 100s of people saying its CLEAR CUT that he was trying make a karate kick at him when Johnsons teammates thinks the opposite? What makes the HF-experts opinion more valid that Johnsons teammates?

Adam Johnson's teammates defend Matt Petgrave amid social media backlash: 'We stand behind him'

Members of the Nottingham Panthers are supporting Matt Petgrave in the wake of the Adam Johnson tragedy.

sports.yahoo.com

Adam Johnson’s teammates ‘wholeheartedly stand' with Matt Petgrave​

Victor Bjorkung, another member of the Panthers, echoed those sentiments in a Swedish interview with Expressen.

“What Matt has experienced is unimaginable,” Bjorkung said, via a Google translation. “I don't understand how some people can behave, it's inhuman. I have texted him and expressed how I feel about everything and I support him. No one in our team thinks it's his fault, quite the opposite. We stand behind him.”

Bjorkung said anyone who thinks Petgrave's actions were intentional "can go to hell."

"It's so insane that people think it's deliberate," Bjorkung said. "Check the video, then you will see that it is an accident. Two skates collide right before, it goes so damn fast. There is no chance it is deliberate.

"What I can say to those who believe otherwise is to listen to the people who were there and those who saw in real time. I was a couple of meters away, so if anyone experienced it as it really was, it was me."

Former NHL players Chris Therien, Marc Methot, and Daniel Carcillo commented online that they think the contact was intentional. I have watched it at least 30 times at both full speed and slowed down with the full assumption that it was completely accidental and I am not saying I am right or anyone else is wrong and the perspective might have looked different to someone who was actually there watching it live, but nothing in the video that is available makes it look accidental. I just don't see how a guy's leg can come up like that by accident while still basically in an upright position. That really never happens in hockey by accident, it takes some type of effort to lift your skate that way. Skates coming upwards like that typically only happen through momentum while in a falling position. If his upper body was already angled towards the ice and he was in a falling motion and his skates came up as a result of that momentum, that makes more sense to how skates usually end up in a position like that by accident. It is possible the angle of the video is missing a perspective so the video could be misleading as well, but It just doesn't look like a normal motion that would occur by accident. The police have talked the the player so they likely have more insight as to what happened. We can only develop an opinion based on the information we currently have.

 

[WarriorofTime]

For a criminal conviction, it needs to be “beyond a reasonable doubt”, not simply “more likely than not”

I’m of the opinion that sticking his leg up high was more likely than not intentional, but I can’t say it “beyond a reasonable doubt”

In a criminal trial, each side would be able to call up 10 different experts that would be able to say “it was intentional” or “it was not intentional” and I can’t imagine a jury feeling confident enough that it was intentional to convict.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Former NHL players Chris Therien, Marc Methot, and Daniel Carcillo commented online that they think the contact was intentional.

So 3 players who only saw grainy footage have a better idea of what happened than the players of the teams who saw the event live?

 

[ToDavid]

People have been playing hockey for almost 150 years now and incidents like this have happened twice. Clint Malarchuk and Adam Johnson. "Quite often" my ass. In addition to that, this Petgrave douche has a history of lashing out with his skates, there is documented evidence from his time in the OHL.

It depends on what you classify as the "incident"? The terrible result is extremely rare because the reality is it's just an unlikely outcome. Players are generally pretty well protected and there aren't that many places on the body where a skate blade will be fatal. Hell even if you were to assume it was intentional, it's a pretty unlikely outcome unless the guy is some sort of martial arts master....

But how many near misses? There's been multiple incidents of skates coming up high in the NHL this season alone. Ghule got one right to the neck area a few days ago. When you start limiting things to very specific outcomes, it's naturally going to be rare. A guy got his eyelid slashed a couple years ago, remarkably avoiding serioius eye damage. How many times do you think that had happened before? I bet zero. So that must have been an intentional kick to the eyelid?

 

[Love]

I think the play is pretty suspect to be honest. I’ve never seen a player get their leg up that high from a play like that. It wasn’t in any regard a natural way of falling to the ice. There was truly no reason for it unless you’re trying to clip the guy with your leg as you’re falling. No I’m not saying he was trying to slice his throat with his skate, but I think he was trying to clip him with his leg/knee to the mid section of Johnson. That part I believe was intentional. So yes it’s a dirty play, but I also don’t believe he meant to get his leg up that high and definitely dont think he intended to slice his throat with his skate. But that doesn’t really matter, even “accidents” have consequences. There’s a reason why players get suspended for dirty plays: not just because “rules are rules” but because it’s dangerous.

But I also want to consider the implications of taking legal action regarding an incident that happens during a sports game. This isn’t the first time that’s happened but it’s always a fine line in my opinion. I wonder if Draymond Green could be arrested for what he did to Rudy Gobert last night? It’s assault, clear as day. The point is there are things that happen on every single play in the NHL or NFL (and sometimes NBA apparently) that would be considered illegal outside the arena. It’s quite a can of worms. Obviously the result of the Adam Johnson situation is far worse than any normal play in a hockey or football game and for that reason, and specifically due to the sheer recklessness of Petgrave and what I believe to be intent to harm, I can’t help but feel there should absolutely be some form of consequence for Petgrave.

 

[MotorHockey]

The "kick" IMO was a misplaced/stupid way of trying to get in his opponents way and slow him down. But there is no way that you are going to put a guy in jail for that. Sorry guys.

I think a lot of people, maybe more than half can come to this same agreement, but some nay sayers can't even come to terms with this.. It just shows others their lack of awareness and I really wish people like that could have a sign so I can stay away from them.

Also giving someone a standing ovation for being involved in some tragic sport accident is ridiculous and it just goes to show how out of sense these people really are. I always thought a standing and applauding or giving someone a standing ovation was for positive moments, not because you screwed up and landed your skate at some guys neck and killed him. We are living in Bizarro world, but its good to a see a good number of discerning people.

 

[Northerner]

It sounds like it's hard to prove manslaughter in the UK, so it sounds like he will not be convicted. If that is the case, I honestly would like him to be banned from pro hockey for the rest of his life. However, I also doubt that will happen.

 

[Bigrigwilly43]

can someone post the video so we can judge if there was an intentional kick or not?

This isn't the place for it

 

[bleedgreen]

The same people defending this dude despite his prior records (which are factual) are the same that would want Tony DeAngelo imprisoned for life for his prior records (most are not factual).

I think too a lot of it is because hockey has had this obsession for race for years now, so there's no way this guy could be guilty or wrong.

As someone who looks more like the "suspect" than "victim in this case", it's one of the things that came to mind to me. I've dealt with it in beer league where people seem to want to be nicer or overly welcoming to show how "inclusive" they are. It's all just disingenuous.

I've been involved in on ice injuries with the skate before, so I understand it's not totally impossible. Just this season my defender and other teams forward crashed into the net and my defender got a decent cut on his cheek from. I had my skates up and it happened so fast.

From several views of this incident I'm leaning towards it looking like that second pump where he pushed the leg out. I don't think, or would hope not, that it was aiming at the throat. That was likely an unintended consequence, but it seemed he forced something there.

Unfortunately we'll never really know, because he's the only one who knows in his heart what happened. But my incident in beer league is with amateur players, guys at this level should be a bit better about controlling their body.

People are getting carried away with the legal talk. To me it comes down to whether or not you think he made an aggressive move with his left leg or not, and with more clear video I think for sure he did. He didn’t mean to kick him in the neck but that doesn’t really matter in the end. I don’t care if they arrest him or he gets truly punished as nothing brings back Johnson. I think the more clear video be should be shown with the general acknowledgement he did make a move to kick or knee a player with horrible consequences. He’ll have to live with that and we get to use the moment moving forward about what’s acceptable and what’s not when teaching kids how to play. To put some more regulations on equipment which are completely appropriate because close calls happen a lot more than people realize.

I do think we should get to the point where the majority is looking at the more clear video and saying….”he absolutely made a poor choice and it had devastating consequences” so we can move forward with it.