Arrest over Johnson death / released within 24 hours, investigation remains open

[saska sault]

I will admit to not fully understanding exactly how the play happened and turned out how it did.... I did do a small youtube search of Petgrave and basically found 2 hits from junior. One was basically a hip check of some form and the other that I believe some are referencing he sticks his leg out backwards maybe 6 to 10 inches off the ice to trip, make contact with a player. Not a clean play, not intent to injure in my mind either.. I am curious if there is hits I am missing or suspensions that make it seem it is likely for him to be using intent in the very unfortunate and tragic event that unfolded. Just trying to get a glimpse of each side, especially the side that seems to think he had any intention. Wreckless? Potentially. Still not sold it wasnt him trying to cut behind a guy and make a hit, while making contact with player/ice at high speed and him not controlling his body as it unfolded in a split second.

 

[Cursed Lemon]

He meant to hurt or injure Adam Johnson

Prove it.

 

[Martin Skoula]

I was trying to explain what I thought about Cooke to my wife. Its not like he went out of his way to injure opponents, but whenever he was in the position to injure them something in his brain always made him do the wrong thing. To me it almost felt like it was a subconscious impulse.

Cooke was clearly ok with the risk of his behaviour hurting people. We can pretend to give him the benefit of the doubt and assume he wasn’t actively trying to hurt people but he was clearly more than ok with the risk of it happening or he would have changed his game after the first dozen injuries.

 

[TimeZone]

6" here and Mark Stone is arrested for manslaughter, right? That's how this works? Spinning heel-kick to the face of Miller because that's how all this shit is interpreted...



That's a 12:44 clip of dudes taking skates to the face and they omitted the two most horrific from the NHL.

??? His entire leg gets taken out at 1:34 as he's trying to win the draw with a walk, which results in his leg flying backwards, where to my knowledge he does not possess eyes, and even if he did the momentum forcing his leg back was unavoidable.

I see posts like this and I question if any of you individuals have actually taken the time to view the video, let alone view it objectively, because these analogies don't make any sense.

 

[Dave92]

People digged for weeks for a similar missed hit that ended with a front kick to the neck. So far no luck if you find one send it to his lawyer.

I guess the prosecution can have this video of him doing something similar in the OHL. Hope this POS ends up in prison.

 

[Petey O]

Prove it.

Trying to sway someone who is ideologically committed like you are to their position is nigh on impossible. There have been many video breakdowns of this from people who played hockey at a high level who give a lot more credence to intentionality than not.

You're just not able to see it in the same way, for some reason.

 

[Statto]

It’s manslaughter 100%.

The only thing that may be debatable is that it’s either
Voluntary Manslaughter or Involuntary Manslaughter

Involuntary manslaughter is not a thing in the UK.

Edit: I’m wrong on this point, it is a thing.

 

[Petey O]

Why are you not answering my damn question

What question have you posed to me? All you've done is angrily tell me to "prove it" and then tell hockey players who have said it looked intentional to "piss off".

Do you know him personally? Why is your investment getting you so angry?

 

[Hank Plank]

What freedoms? Freedom is an illusion my guy.

Then check into a prison you won't be able to tell the difference.

 

[norrisnick]

??? His entire leg gets taken out at 1:34 as he's trying to win the draw with a walk, which results in his leg flying backwards, where to my knowledge he does not possess eyes, and even if he did the momentum forcing his leg back was unavoidable.

I see posts like this and I question if any of you individuals have actually taken the time to view the video, let alone view it objectively, because these analogies don't make any sense.

You mean the intentional ninja kick ones? I agree.

 

[Korpse]

If it happens only once and the guy doesn't have a history of ever doing it, it would be a stupid, reckless play. It wouldn't have been an 'accident', but a stupid play that he probably would have taken back in the context.

With a history of doing this intent to injure shit, no different than someone like Matt Cooke, it's clear that this is just a pattern of behavior in this guy's career. He tries to injure his opponents on the ice.

You're basing intent on the presuppose that a prior event was done recklessly and given what I know about hitting I don't think that's a safe assumption. You can clearly see in the video from Niagara that his trailing leg is already extended and coming up while his leading leg is bent in preparation for the hit. After missing the hit his momentum continues forward and the trailing leg swings while he catches himself. There's a good explanation for why that leg would swing and make contact while not being intentional.

 

[thaman8765678]

Prove it.

Prove he didn't?

I mean, I don't think he meant to injure anyone. But the act is wreckless and not a hockey type play.

 

[ScottishCanuck]

Prove he didn't?

I mean, I don't think he meant to injure anyone. But the act is wreckless and not a hockey type play.

That’s not how this works.

 

[Reality Czech]

Again, it's not weird if you remove the assumption that him sticking his leg out that high was intentional.

I'm just not going to accuse someone of murder or manslaughter based on a blurry video, especially when it contradicts statements from the victim's teammate who had a close view of what happened.

There are 3 options: assume guilt, assume innocence, remain neutral with an open mind. I just wonder why so few people choose option C.

 

[TimeZone]

You mean the intentional ninja kick ones? I agree.

Yet you believe the video with the description above is superior?

I don't genuinely believe he tried to kick him in the throat, I do however believe he attempted and succeeded in making contact with his lower body.

It was an extremely reckless play on his behalf.

 

[Legend123]

Reckless negligence that results in death is grounds for a manslaughter charge.

You understand that he isn't being charged with first degree murder, and that Guhle getting cut with a skate tonight is completely and utterly worthless in the grand scheme of this discussion, correct?

Doesn't matter. Still unlikely you can prove he was reckless or negligent in a high flying game where freak accidents happen quite often

 

[TimeZone]

Doesn't matter. Still unlikely you can prove he was reckless or negligent in a high flying game where freak accidents happen quite often

Of course it f***ing matters

You literally just admitted that it's entirely possible he was reckless, negligent ending in death.

That alone warrants discussion regarding a manslaughter charge, by literal legal definition.

This isn't subjective.

 

[Yorkshire Leaf]

Involuntary manslaughter is not a thing in the UK.

The Crown Prosecution Service, which deals with deciding if the evidence collected by the police warrants a prosecution disagrees with you, the following is their definition.

Involuntary manslaughter is unlawful killing without the intent to kill or cause really serious harm and is a common law offence. There are two classes of involuntary manslaughter: unlawful act manslaughter and manslaughter by gross negligence.

 

[BlueBull]

There are 3 options: assume guilt, assume innocence, remain neutral with an open mind. I just wonder why so few people choose option C.

Because a ton of people have chosen option A, and if you choose C, they will assume you chose B.
Hence many are forced into B.

Me personally, I think that it is legally manslaughter, but it gets annoying seeing a bunch of people on twitter, most of which don't watch hockey, wish for him to get the electrical chair over a hockey play that was criminally reckless at worst.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

The Crown Prosecution Service, which deals with deciding if the evidence collected by the police warrants a prosecution disagrees with you, the following is their definition.

Involuntary manslaughter is unlawful killing without the intent to kill or cause really serious harm and is a common law offence. There are two classes of involuntary manslaughter: unlawful act manslaughter and manslaughter by gross negligence.

Look at this - a relevant post!

Presumably the investigation would be considering the latter, gross negligence, right?

Has the Crown given any indication of when their investigation will determine if prosecution is warranted?

 

[Yorkshire Leaf]

Look at this - a relevant post!

Presumably the investigation would be considering the latter, gross negligence, right?

Has the Crown given any indication of when their investigation will determine if prosecution is warranted?

Not to go into too much detail but the police will only pass their file onto the CPS once they have completed their investigation, the CPS then decide if the evidence warrants a prosecution with a reasonable chance conviction.

 

[ItWasJustified]

Doesn't matter. Still unlikely you can prove he was reckless or negligent in a high flying game where freak accidents happen quite often

What sport are you watching where freak accidents happen quite often? Sure isn't pro hockey.

 

[Deep Blue Metallic]

Not to go into too much detail but the police will only pass their file onto the CPS once they have completed their investigation, the CPS then decide if the evidence warrants a prosecution with a reasonable chance conviction.

Are you a barrister (or is it solicitor, I forget)? It would be useful to have a hockey fan with domain knowledge to help us laymen better understand the investigative and legal aspects as they evolve.

 

[Iwishihadaspacebar]

Why do you think that is?

Just in case anyone is wondering, this is standard for the UK press to share only the information given to them by the police, which will avoid naming people. It is only when the police are able to name the suspect will the press also do so (if there is no risk of liable).

I say this as someone who works for a media company in the UK.

 

[Legend123]

What sport are you watching where freak accidents happen quite often? Sure isn't pro hockey.

Sorry which happen decently or not so uncommonly often