Arrest over Johnson death / released within 24 hours, investigation remains open

[SEALBound]

Stupid decision. It was a freak accident and trying to charge someone for it is disgusting.

The dude is already scarred for life from the incident itself, what does throwing him in jail accomplish?

Just because he's convicted doesn't mean there will be jail time. I would imagine a ban from the league, the conviction on record, and probation would be the "sentence".

 

[MikeyMike01]

Killing a man was the accidental part. I don't believe kicking his leg out was an accident.

So, when you kick your leg out and someone dies accidentally from that, that''s manslaughter. Seems like an okay arrest to me.

This. It doesn’t look accidental to me in the clip I watched.

 

[Rebels57]

I do have questions about the president this sets for the sport in the UK. Are other freak accidents going to lead to manslaughter charges?

He was arrested for manslaughter because clearly they don't classify it as merely a "freak accident." A freak accident would be if Johnson fell in front of him and he stepped on his neck causing the death. When you kick someone in a hockey game and they die, even if you didn't mean to kill them, you should be charged with manslaughter.

This is how the UK defines manslaughter:

"Where an unlawful killing is done without an intention to kill or to cause grievous bodily harm, the suspect is to be charged with manslaughter not murder. "

 

[BrendanGaunce4Selke]

for everyone saying it was an accident..you do know this same player did the same exact kick before. it wasn't a freak accident

 

[Iwishihadaspacebar]

He was charged with manslaughter because clearly they don't classify it as merely a "freak accident." A freak accident would be if Johnson fell in front of him and he stepped on his neck causing the death. When you kick someone in a hockey game and they die, even if you didn't mean to kill them, you should be charged with manslaughter.

This is how the UK defines manslaughter:

"Where an unlawful killing is done without an intention to kill or to cause grievous bodily harm, the suspect is to be charged with manslaughter not murder. "

Just for clarity, he hasn't been charged with anything at this point. He may, but right now he is arrested and will be questioned.

 

[Empoleon8771]

Idk why people are bringing up intent… you don’t need intent to be charged with manslaughter. Just being reckless is enough.

In saying that, this one is very shaky. I doubt he’s actually convicted.

No it isn't. Taken from Reddit regarding UK manslaughter laws:

"The breach of duty must be so bad as to be gross, i.e. criminal. This was defined in Adomako [1994] 3 All ER 79 as follows: having regard to the risk of death involved, was the conduct of the defendant so bad in all the circumstances as to amount to a criminal act or omission? The prosecution must prove the following two elements:

a) that the circumstances were such that a reasonably prudent person in the defendant's position would have foreseen a serious and obvious risk of death arising from the defendant's act or omission;

b) that the breach of duty was, in all the circumstances, so reprehensible and fell so far below the standards to be expected of a person in the defendant's position with his qualifications, experience and responsibilities that it amounted to a crime."

There needs to be way more than "it was reckless" to actually get a charge like this to stick. Which is why it's nonsensical that he's getting arrested for this, the incident doesn't even remotely hit both of these points. Under any reasonable situation, these charges should be dropped because there is no way you can seriously argue that this incident without any doubt rose to this level.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

for everyone saying it was an accident..you do know this same player did the same exact kick before. it wasn't a freak accident

Both Petgraves teammates and Johnson’s teammates are saying it was clearly an accident. I’d say they’d have the better view than anyone, no?

 

[Chuck Norris Trophy]

I do have questions about the president this sets for the sport in the UK. Are other freak accidents going to lead to manslaughter charges?

It think presidents are set by some kind of committee or something.

 

[Czechboy]

for everyone saying it was an accident..you do know this same player did the same exact kick before. it wasn't a freak accident

This is what I'm wondering... Is their a history, did these two have hear, better video footage, words exchanged.

Not saying any of those things happened but the next bits of information coming out could be interesting

 

[nbwingsfan]

for everyone saying it was an accident..you do know this same player did the same exact kick before. it wasn't a freak accident

“Exact same kick”…..

You mean the one where his shin hit another guys knee and it was the complete different leg?

That “exact” same?

 

[KillerMillerTime]

This case may be precedent setting. Im thinking if someone dies in a hockey fight or even an intentional hit ( legal in hockey or not ) BASELINE, manslaughter charges may be filled.

But admittedly,, I'm no legal expert.

I will give you an example of a potential precedent. Team A is killing a penalty and they clear the puck. Team B player races just ahead of Team A player to get puck. Team A player cross checks player directly from behind sending him directly into the boards where he breaks his neck and dies. That is an example of reckless act resulting in potentially manslaughter.

 

[Rebels57]

Just for clarity, he hasn't been charged with anything at this point. He may, but right now he is arrested and will be questioned.

Apologies, arrested for manslaughter. Will amend.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

The right decision. To say that player deserves no criminal fault is to have not watched that video.

 

[Iwishihadaspacebar]

Not sure what this has to do with any culture war.

Should not have been arrested IMHO from what I saw and have read there was no malicious intent and makes me wonder what the cops and persecutors saw to make them think all this was worth it.

In the UK, if there is a death in unusual or suspicious circumstances (like this) then the police will investigate after the post-mortem.

Just to add they don't always wait for the post-mortem obviously.

 

[Hockeylife2018]

I’m genuinely surprised there are so many in this thread that think a negligent act that directly kill’s someone isn’t something to be punished.

To them, I believe it falls somewhere in the category of "it was just a prank bro"

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

It wasn't near neck high and didn't remotely have the delivery as with Petgrave. Petgrave's actions at looked to be an attempt to impede Johnson, which given he was leading with his skates was reckless.

I'll let LE and The Courts take it from here but IMO there is enough there to charge him with manslaughter.

If this was a hip check gone bad I would agree with no charges but doesn't look it to me.

I never said it did. But people keep making the argument that it never happens with pro hockey players who have been skating all their lives. This is an NHL player skating on his own who threw himself off balance and caught an edge. Weird things happen sometimes. Even to pro hockey players.

 

[Thorton02]

I do have questions about the president this sets for the sport in the UK. Are other freak accidents going to lead to manslaughter charges?

I imagine there's an acceptable amount of risk from playing sports. In hockey, it seems to always come down to whether something is considered a "hockey play". Smacking a guy in the head with a stick? Not a hockey play. Attacking a guy from behind? Not a hockey play. Throwing your leg up in the air and making a distinct kicking motion during a hit? Probably not a hockey play.

The only difference I see between this and the other neck/skate injuries I've seen is the additional kicking motion. It seems unnatural if it's there to preserve balance or prepare of ice impact. That video alone shouldn't be enough to convict anyone of unintentional homicide, but if this guy has a track record of sticking his legs out and even said something on the bench prior to the hit, it won't look good.

 

[Dirty Dog]

Opens thread…..

….runs away quickly!

(This is a very tragic and complicated incident, mixed with legal analysis and culpability. Yup, no thanks to this discussion!)

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

I’m genuinely surprised there are so many in this thread that think a negligent act that directly kill’s someone isn’t something to be punished.

If you remove your bad premise, it shouldn't be that surprising.

The people who think it shouldn't be punished likely view it as a freak accident and not a negligent act.

 

[Johnnyduke]

Common sense prevails

 

[Rebels57]

“Exact same kick”…..

You mean the one where his shin hit another guys knee and it was the complete different leg?

That “exact” same?

Wasn't the exact same but it does show he has a history of kicking his leg out after missing a conventional body check. That precedent can be used to show it wasn't just a freak accident that his leg came kicking out like that. Once you accept that he did in fact intend to kick his leg out into Johnson, then you're in the territory of involuntary manslaughter.

 

[shakes the clown]

You got me mate. Petgrave has spent years and years playing hockey professionally, consuming his life (even the charitable work he’s done) just so that some day he could purposely slit a guys throat.

It’s so plausible.

When did I or anyone in this thread say he purposely slit his throat?

 

[andora]

Wasn't the exact same but it does show he has a history of kicking his leg out after missing a conventional body check. That precedent can be used to show it wasn't just a freak accident that his leg came kicking out like that. Once you accept that he did in fact intend to kick his leg out into Johnson, then you're in the territory of involuntary manslaughter.

Half the nhl leave their leg out before during or after hits

 

[nbwingsfan]

I imagine there's an acceptable amount of risk from playing sports. In hockey, it seems to always come down to whether something is considered a "hockey play". Smacking a guy in the head with a stick? Not a hockey play. Attacking a guy from behind? Not a hockey play. Throwing your leg up in the air and making a distinct kicking motion during a hit? Probably not a hockey play.

The only difference I see between this and the other neck/skate injuries I've seen is the additional kicking motion. It seems unnatural if it's there to preserve balance or prepare of ice impact. That video alone shouldn't be enough to convict anyone of unintentional homicide, but if this guy has a track record of sticking his legs out and even said something on the bench prior to the hit, it won't look good.

Your last sentence is really the only way I could see any conviction coming from this.

As of now, whether he meant to stop his leg out or not, he can easily say he just lost his balance and it’s very hard to prove otherwise.

If he said something on the bench about hurting someone or something along those lines there could be something there.

 

[Leonardo87]

Hey Folks,

Again, please do not post videos of the incident. Some people don’t want to see that.

Thank you.