Panteras
Stanley Cup Champs 2024
except it seems like my opinion is the one that actually aligns with the experts and police doing the actual investigation. Maybe you didn't think about that one simple part.
Arrest over Johnson death / released within 24 hours, investigation remains open
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except it seems like my opinion is the one that actually aligns with the experts and police doing the actual investigation. Maybe you didn't think about that one simple part.
AaronPines
Registered User
Deeply chilling, and alarming how many people are wishing to destroy a second life over an accident.
It will have a chilling effect on all sport in that country if we can prove a reckless play amongst consensual adults, playing an inherently risky sport, constitutes criminal negligence.
Slide tackle into someone's shin causing injury? Battery.
High stick causing damage to someone's teeth? Yep, that's assault.
It's not about whether or not the act caused damage—If I slide tackle into your shin, breaking it on the street? Yeah that's definitely a crime. But within a game there is literally a different set of rules amongst adults engaged in competition. There is a form of consent that injury is possible.
It's not about whether or not recklessly skating might have caused injury, but instead does participating in a professional sporting environment constitute mutual consent and acknowledgement of the potential for injury— even if caused by recklessness bounded within the sport. Even my rec league makes me sign something acknowledging this risk. Posed to my both by myself and others.
Is this just for show? Or to sate the desire for vengeful retribution ("punishment") from the hockey community? I suppose time will tell.
Don't ruin another life. It won't bring Johnson back y'know.
It will have a chilling effect on all sport in that country if we can prove a reckless play amongst consensual adults, playing an inherently risky sport, constitutes criminal negligence.
Slide tackle into someone's shin causing injury? Battery.
High stick causing damage to someone's teeth? Yep, that's assault.
It's not about whether or not the act caused damage—If I slide tackle into your shin, breaking it on the street? Yeah that's definitely a crime. But within a game there is literally a different set of rules amongst adults engaged in competition. There is a form of consent that injury is possible.
It's not about whether or not recklessly skating might have caused injury, but instead does participating in a professional sporting environment constitute mutual consent and acknowledgement of the potential for injury— even if caused by recklessness bounded within the sport. Even my rec league makes me sign something acknowledging this risk. Posed to my both by myself and others.
Is this just for show? Or to sate the desire for vengeful retribution ("punishment") from the hockey community? I suppose time will tell.
Don't ruin another life. It won't bring Johnson back y'know.
This has already been addressed. If you're acknowledging that this was not intentional, then you're acknowledging that it was an accident.
So again. Good luck with that.
- Mar 4, 2004
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I posted this in the initial thread. This is a pro hockey player skating untouched.
It wasn't neck high, but there's literally no contact but he digs an edge and throws himself off balance and his legs end up waist high.
Ulysses31
Registered User
Whatever the individual opinions, it is worthy of further investigation due to the outcome.
Will be an interesting precedent set either way.
As far as my opinion, surely his intent wasn’t to kill the guy, but the actions (attempting to kick someone with a skate) which led to the outcome (a death on ice) were certainly reckless.
Will be an interesting precedent set either way.
As far as my opinion, surely his intent wasn’t to kill the guy, but the actions (attempting to kick someone with a skate) which led to the outcome (a death on ice) were certainly reckless.
Walrus26
Wearing a Habs Toque in England.
Arresting someone gives the police more time to investigate matters, question witnesses, do police stuff etc.
It only gets really real when charges are laid. That might well happen, but arresting someone in connection with an event is not the same as laying a criminal charge against them.
It only gets really real when charges are laid. That might well happen, but arresting someone in connection with an event is not the same as laying a criminal charge against them.
Washed Up 29YearOld
Bro Do You Even Hockey?
Kucherov also has a history of kicking people with his skateblades when frustrated. If this was Kucherov, would it definitively been intentional?
I'd listen to the people closest to the ice who saw it best. If the players say it's an accident, which only they can see the nuances and subtleties of the play- I tend to agree with them.
For example, I was 3rd row when Makar collided with the boards. In real time there is absolutely NOTHING to suggest Okposo was dirty. If you watch it live, close, in real time, you realize it'd be impossible that it could've been intentional.(I was quite surprised when some Avs fans said it was dirty after the game. Didn't look like that at all from 3rd row)
It was an unfortunate result of fighting for the puck.
You see a lot more detail when it comes to borderline plays if you're right in front of it. I'll listen to the players.
- Mar 4, 2004
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Your appeal to authority fallacy doesn't make it a fact. It's still your opinion.
CaliSabresfan24
Registered User
I think he intended to get a piece of Johnson with his leg and toe picking both can be true.
To me, It looks like Petgrave saw Johnson cut back to the middle to dodge the hit so Petgrave committed to using his left leg to get a piece of him (a move Petgrave has used before). As he lifts his left leg, it looks like his right skate clipped Johnson's teammates skate which caused Petgrave to lose balance, leans forward, causing his left skate to go higher than intended into the throat area.
I obviously don't believe Petgrave intended to kill Johnson but him using his left leg to make contact mixed with clipping another players skate resulted in a tragic death.
There are consequences for your actions and it looks like Petgrave is going to face them.
Idk why people are bringing up intent… you don’t need intent to be charged with manslaughter. Just being reckless is enough.
In saying that, this one is very shaky. I doubt he’s actually convicted.
In saying that, this one is very shaky. I doubt he’s actually convicted.
OG Eberle
Registered User
- Aug 25, 2011
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Yes I have. Yes, people have had their legs go up in the air on a hit.
I will once again state for all the people quoting this "flailing leg" quote in my post:
I have not watched the video.
I will not watch the video.
I have zero opinion on the matter. I haven't from the start and I will continue to not.
I am literally reading out what the definition of manslaughter is for everyone and what a prosecutor will argue if following through with the charges. Other videos of him doing crazy leg swings on nothing hits and circus wheels on a pretty nothing hit (IMO) is just things that what the prosecutors will use. And just because it hasn't happened before with other players and there are videos of other players having their legs swing in the air on hits isn't necesarily a defense in itself. The entire argument is going to be whether he was reckless beyond a reasonable means with his body. And I'm sure the defendant's attorney will argue that it was a terrible accident on a routine play. That's where the court system can figure the rest out.
Don't understand why several of you keep quoting me and start picking apart my life/character for literally posting a definition of what "manslaughter" is and giving an example outside of hockey. Especially when I've been clear of my lack of opinion/stance on this specific subject.
Guess it's hard to see the forest through the trees at times
No, that's not the case here. You can be arrested and interviewed under caution (you'll be fingerprinted and photo taken) but no charge has been set at that point and no court date given.
They have all the time in the world to investigate this whether he's arrested or not.
I’m pretty sure all this means (based on someone who posted UK law earlier) is that they’re giving him an interview under the assumption he committed manslaughter and is pretty standard act.
westc2
Registered User
It's suspicion of MANSLAUGHTER, not murder. Basically saying he killed him on accident through his reckless and dangerous actions. It's like if you kill someone while drunk driving.
For the people saying it was just a "freak accident"...I watched the video many times over, and there was nothing normal about his actions here. Dude kicked his leg out...it was probably a split second decision. You see players do this all the time sticking their knee out or something when a player is about to go around them, but nothing on this level.
Yes he clearly didn't mean to do what he did, and it will likely traumatize him for the rest of his life, but it was his actions that led to the result. People can't just skate around out there like they're invincible.
I'm sure "experts" will analyze all the evidence as closely as possible.
For the people saying it was just a "freak accident"...I watched the video many times over, and there was nothing normal about his actions here. Dude kicked his leg out...it was probably a split second decision. You see players do this all the time sticking their knee out or something when a player is about to go around them, but nothing on this level.
Yes he clearly didn't mean to do what he did, and it will likely traumatize him for the rest of his life, but it was his actions that led to the result. People can't just skate around out there like they're invincible.
I'm sure "experts" will analyze all the evidence as closely as possible.
For the last time, we all understand the difference between manslaughter and murder. However, if you're acknowledging that he didn't intend to cut Johnson with his skate, then you are acknowledging that it was an accident.
Unless there's damning video that we haven't seen or comments made that we haven't heard, this doesn't stand a chance of a conviction by 10 out of 12 jurors.
The amount of people in this thread completely dismissing the possibility that there was intent to make contact with his skate/feet is a tad mind boggling to me quite honestly.
The video looks incredibly suspicious, to put it mildly.
The video looks incredibly suspicious, to put it mildly.
It won’t be a fair trial unless the jury is full of people who’ve played hockey at high levels.
Fans who never played have no idea what it’s like to play or how unlikely and impossible that would be to do on purpose.
Insane. There’ll be no way to prove any kind of negligence or criminality at all. Everybody loses in this.
Fans who never played have no idea what it’s like to play or how unlikely and impossible that would be to do on purpose.
Insane. There’ll be no way to prove any kind of negligence or criminality at all. Everybody loses in this.
I Hate Philadelphia
Registered User
To me this is like one of those cases where somebody punches / pushes someone intending to cause minor (not life-threatening) harm but then the person falls at some weird angle and dies from a spinal injury / brain bleed etc.
Do not think he tried to murder someone but that movement was extremely unnatural and he was definitely trying to kick him in the chest or something.
Do not think he tried to murder someone but that movement was extremely unnatural and he was definitely trying to kick him in the chest or something.
Barnum
Registered User
Dude, I can’t really tell anymore. Everytime I think I have the UK figured out, criminal charges go down that would never happen in the US. I have watched for the last month, tons of arrests for free speech and the right to protest dissent.I don’t even agree with what these people are saying but I am 100% aghast at being arrested for simple free speech remarks. Someone today was arrested for comparing their PM to a coconut. You read that correctly.
When I saw a few weeks back that the rozzers were investigating this for manslaughter, I told my wife, I couldn’t believe my eyes and this would never happen in the US or Canada. I hope you are right, but I wouldn’t outright say “it will be dropped”, remember this is the UK, not the US or Canada.
It wasn't near neck high and didn't remotely have the delivery as with Petgrave. Petgrave's actions at looked to be an attempt to impede Johnson, which given he was leading with his skates was reckless.
I'll let LE and The Courts take it from here but IMO there is enough there to charge him with manslaughter.
If this was a hip check gone bad I would agree with no charges but doesn't look it to me.
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At first I was like most, thinking “wow c’mon really they’re gonna try and convict this poor guy for a freak accident?!?”….but the more you think about it, if there’s ANY doubt at all that maybe just maybe he intentionally kicked his leg out….then as uncomfortable or awkward as it may be, this is definitely an understandable arrest.
Shitty situation any way you slice it.
Shitty situation any way you slice it.
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