Arrest over Johnson death / released within 24 hours, investigation remains open

[The Crypto Guy]

Correct charge was made.

And this bum was just given a stand ovation at his home rink, hopefully he was dragged out in cuffs from that game.

 

[WarriorofTime]

I'm not a legal expert, but I don't see why "It happened during the run of play" matters that much re-legal consequences.

Does it make intent much much harder to prove past a reasonable doubt? Absolutely.

It matters quite a bit. If you're at the local ice skating rink, you skate full speed at someone and throw a full force body check, they land awkwardly and die, that's pretty clear manslaughter. You do the same in a hockey game during the course of play, and it's just a tragic accident and nobody even thinks of it is anything illegal because it happened within the confines of a sport that allows checking.

Now, let's say there's a clear "illegal" play, but it's an ordinary course tripping penalty and the player still dies. While not technically "allowed", it's likely still fully within the assumption of risk. But go further and further down the line of "illegal" hockey plays and it's a harder and harder case. Eventually you can envsion conduct that is so outside of the normal course of play and so clearly dangerous with intent to harm, that it does become a clearer case of "criminal" conduct. It's admittedly a tricky topic for a court of law to navigate.

 

[sepHF]

if this guy did it on purpose he's the greatest actor of all time

his skate made contact with a different players skate right before losing his balance, this would have to be so insanely calculated to be intentional

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Really using the Zednik case where his own teammate that wasn't even looking at him is the same as this incident?

Its quite scary how someone can watch a clear video of a guy intentionally using his leg with a skate to kick a guy and delude themselves to think it was accidental. I hope you never end up on a jury panel of a murderer.

Please skip jury duty for the rest of your life if you consider that a clear video from which intent is obvious.

 

[ScottishCanuck]

Mate, go read what manslaughter is and put the shovel down.

Lack of intent is literally the difference between manslaughter and murder.

If it helps you to conceptualize this better and not berate other posters when you don't have a clear understanding of what that difference is; if someone has 3-4 drinks and drives home 2km from buddies house, hits another car on a back road and they flip into the ditch and die from the trauma, it's manslaughter.

Zero intent. Complete remorse. Recklessness of ones own actions led to the unintentional death of another. Doesn't absolve of legal responsibility and consequences.

Flailing your leg into the sky on hits when literally no other player in hockey does this, could definitely be argued as recklessness of ones actions/body.

We both know this isn’t true. It just doesn’t often catch the throat of another player, but you see skates up high quite often.

 

[Johnnucleo]

I cannot believe that there is anyone who has seen the video, still preaching that it was a freak accident. People - this isn't Beer League where guys can barely skate, this is a professional hockey league where they have control over the bodies, and do not kick their leg 6' in the air even when clipped (I actually see no evidence of him being clipped in the video as well). Of course he didn't intend to kill the guy, hence no Murder 1 charge. He was reckless (at minimum) and therefore charged with Manslaughter. People act like this was clear cut freak accident, yet somehow Manslaughter charges were filed after investigation. Just for fun? No, because there was evidence to the contrary that is was NOT an freak occurance.

Having said all that, I would be SHOCKED if he was actually convicted.

 

[Rafafouille]

So you think he’s just a murdering psychopath who decides he’s going to kill someone on the ice today?

Also how many videos of flailing skates need to be posted for you?

No he's not otherwise he'd be charged with murder. If the guy kicks out his leg in frustration after missing the hit and accidentally kills Johnson, that's involuntary manslaughter. Just like you'd get for speeding and killing someone on the road. A non prudent action a reasonable person would not have done.

 

[nbwingsfan]

seriously? Of course he 100% intended to him with the skate. Did you even watch the video?

I don't buy the argument that he lost his balance causing him to violently kick his leg back into the guy's neck. Played hockey for way too many decades to buy that nonsense.

A player on Johnson’s team was literally at ice level and said he saw him lose his balance and was a clear accident…

But that doesn’t fit your narrative does it?

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Really using the Zednik case where his own teammate that wasn't even looking at him is the same as this incident?

Its quite scary how someone can watch a clear video of a guy intentionally using his leg with a skate to kick a guy and delude themselves to think it was accidental. I hope you never end up on a jury panel of a murderer.

"Except your leg would not be moving in a kung-fu motion when you lose balance. At best your leg would reach hip level before going down."

According to you, Olli Jokinen is an attempted murderer, or at least a manslaughterer.

 

[nbwingsfan]

No he's not otherwise he'd be charged with murder. If the guy kicks out his leg in frustration after missing the hit and accidentally kills Johnson, that's involuntary manslaughter. Just like you'd get for speeding and killing someone on the road. A non prudent action a reasonable person would not have done.

And your leaving out the part where he completely lost balance, as stated by the opposition players literally at ice level watching it?

 

[sepHF]

Flailing your leg into the sky on hits when literally no other player in hockey does this, could definitely be argued as recklessness of ones actions/body.

Have you ever played hockey? How can you say that?

I have seen dozens of videos and even went heels over head on the rink myself from a hip check

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

if this guy did it on purpose he's the greatest actor of all time

his skate made contact with a different players skate right before losing his balance, this would have to be so insanely calculated to be intentional

Agreed. His skate wobbles before his leg flies up. He's making contact with another player. The kind of coordination and reaction time required to knowingly kick your skate towards a players head would be incredible.

 

[Mike C]

I haven't, and won't, watch it the clip. I'd heard the other player was perhaps somewhat careless, but that it was a completely accidental play. To charge this player with manslaughter would be akin Chris Therien having been charged if the slap shot he took that struck Trent McCleary in the throat had killed him (granted it would have had Dr. Mulder not been so proactive and performed the tracheostomy in the tunnel to the locker room). This seems like an overreach to me.

The player has been suspended in the past for slewfooting....how do we know he didn't say to one of his teammates on the bench "Hey. Watch this" and they told the authorities. Petgrave has a reputation for dirty play and abuse of players and officials. In 2010 the OHL changed a rule regarding jumping an opponent before puck drop at the start of a period because of his shenanigans.

Let's let the facts come out

 

[Panteras]

Humans are such interesting creatures. There's still those out there prepared to see what they want to see of a video of a man getting killed and absolve the perpetrator simply because some nasty things are being said. We somehow are incapable of separating the 2 things and being impartial about the facts that occurred on the ice independent from any shenanigans after that.

 

[Garbageyuk]

Killing a man was the accidental part. I don't believe kicking his leg out was an accident.

So, when you kick your leg out and someone dies accidentally from that, that''s manslaughter. Seems like an okay arrest to me.

Unfortunately, this. That’s what people seem to be conflating. Nobody is saying he meant to kill him, but it’s pretty clear that he kicked his leg out intentionally. If you perform a reckless act, and someone accidentally dies as a result of that act, you should be punished.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Yeah... Good luck proving any intent on this one, even if you believe there is.

 

[Shrimper]

When you lose your balance, have you ever kicked your leg up 6' into the air? It is wreckless.

It happens

 

[Cursed Lemon]

Also the fact that people are pulling up Wall Street Silver and Collin Rugg about this says everything about their bias.

 

[thaman8765678]

It's crazy that people bring up "his teammate who was there said it was an accident".

As though the instant replay we have available isn't showing the exact same thing they saw.

 

[shakes the clown]

So you think he’s just a murdering psychopath who decides he’s going to kill someone on the ice today?

Also how many videos of flailing skates need to be posted for you?

yes, he's a psychopath who happens to play hockey. Is that really that surprising to you? You think he's the first? I can find 2-3 of them just by going down to my local beer league on a Thursday night. Plenty of guys play hockey just cause they think it's a free pass to commit violence.


My office is currently suing one right now. Guy comes up to my client well after the whistle while my client and another player are just standing next to the boards talking and proceeds to violently cross check him from behind into the boards causing a severely fractured ankle requiring surgery. Guy who did it is a bender who can barely hold a stick in his hand, but he's out there playing mens league late at night so he can take runs at everyone.

plenty of psychpaths in the game of hockey.

 

[Mirka the Turka]

"Except your leg would not be moving in a kung-fu motion when you lose balance. At best your leg would reach hip level before going down."

View attachment 768093

According to you, Olli Jokinen is an attempted murderer, or at least a manslaughterer.

Not the same context whatsoever. Jokinen isn't even looking at his direction and received a different type of contact. Petgrave is charging towards Johnson and deliberately swings his leg towards the victim in attempt to injure him. The amount of contact Petgrave received prior to swinging his leg was not enough to cause him to swing his leg kung fu style towards his victim.

 

[The Burdened]

Yeah... Good luck proving any intent on this one, even if you believe there is.

It is manslaughter, there is no intent to prove.

 

[KillerMillerTime]

Killing a man was the accidental part. I don't believe kicking his leg out was an accident.

So, when you kick your leg out and someone dies accidentally from that, that''s manslaughter. Seems like an okay arrest to me.

Been watching hockey I can remember for literally 60 years. I have never in my life
seen someone accidentally have their skates contact a players neck in that fashion.
We aren't talking Petgrave getting sent head over heals on a hip check. It looked reckless to me so I can see manslaughter.

 

[ScottishCanuck]

Lol not a chance his leg was forced up like that. That doesn't happen in hockey unless he decided to try to do some stupid kick up to trip the guy and missed.

It absolutely does happen, if you catch an edge like that. It’s a sudden shift of momentum and it definitely does throw you off balance. You don’t even have to be going at that speed, which only amplifies it.

 

[Rafafouille]

And your leaving out the part where he completely lost balance, as stated by the opposition players literally at ice level watching it?

Yes. The police are better at judging the situation with footages than people who saw it happen in half a second.