Arrest over Johnson death / released within 24 hours, investigation remains open

[Statto]

He's being arrested weeks later after it happened, that's gotta mean charges have been filed...whether they stick or get dropped later on is another question i guess

No, he’s been arrested which does not mean charges are certain.

 

[Jetsfan79]

This case may be precedent setting. Im thinking if someone dies in a hockey fight or even an intentional hit ( legal in hockey or not ) BASELINE, manslaughter charges may be filled.

But admittedly,, I'm no legal expert.

 

[Boss Man Hughes]

Saw this comment on Reddit regarding UK laws regarding manslaughter:



The only argument that can be made is that he intentionally kicked Johnson and that it violates one of these, but that seems like a huge stretch. I sincerely doubt he gets charged, but it’s a joke that it’s even getting to this point.

Garbage. If he intentionally kicked him he should be convicted. It SHOULD be irrelevant that he didn't mean to kick him in the neck. Just as if Veleno had cut the guy he stomped and the guy bled to death Veleno should have been convicted.

 

[Ezekial]

Idk I thought it was a freak accident at first but having watched the slowed down version and that previous clip there may be something to him doing that scorpion kick move, if even instinctively, when he's missing a player. Just an extremely sad and potentially avoidable situation imo.

 

[Zerotonine]

You can't in one sentence say that the defendant had 'in no way shape or form an intent to kill" and then in the next sentence acknowledge that he went head hunting with his skate blade. Those two thoughts are diametrically opposed.

If someone walks around a crowded subway car swinging a knife back and forth would you say he didn't have the intent to kill? I sure wouldn't. Killing someone is a very forseeable outcome in that scenario. Same with this situation. Going after a guy's head wtih your skate blade could easily lead to the outcome that happened.

In what way did I say he went head hunting with his skate blade? He stuck his leg out to hit or even impede Johnson. That fact he did what he did was unfortunate luck to say the least

 

[westc2]

A lot more nuance to this than that. Can't compare hockey to driving a car.

If a guy crosschecks a guys head into the ice while down and he suffers a freak accident and dies, is the guy who cross checked deserve to get arrested?

It was a freak accident.

In your example, yes. If the player dies from getting crosschecked in the head while on the ice, there would definitely be charges, either murder or manslaughter. There are many very dangerous plays in hockey that make you go "damn he's lucky the other guy didn't die"...

 

[francis246]

How his leg came up did look a bit unnatural.. but it'd be pretty incredible if it was planned.

I guess the important part here is if there's people who can testify or phone records or something that show a motive. If not, I have a hard time seeing this being deemed as an accident at the end of the day.

Motive is not needed in a manslaughter case. You just need to prove that the suspected acted recklessly leading to death.

I’m torn. On one hand within the definition and scope of the charge it makes sense. On the other hand it feels like a freak accident and a dangerous precedent to set for all sports.

 

[Stephen]

At first I was like most, thinking “wow c’mon really they’re gonna try and convict this poor guy for a freak accident?!?”….but the more you think about it, if there’s ANY doubt at all that maybe just maybe he intentionally kicked his leg out….then as uncomfortable or awkward as it may be, this is definitely an understandable arrest.

Shitty situation any way you slice it.

Awkward choice of phrasing at the end but I agree with the first paragraph.

 

[robertmac43]

Still stand on the side of accident for this case and I think it will ultimately get dropped. I do not think this should get a manslaughter charge.

That being said I totally get why it's gotten to this point. Impact verse intent is important. The intent was not to kill someone, I think everyone will agree on that; however the impact was the death of Johnson.

 

[Midnight Judges]

This case may be precedent setting. Im thinking if someone dies in a hockey fight or even an intentional hit ( legal in hockey or not ) BASELINE, manslaughter charges may be filled.

But admittedly,, I'm no legal expert.

Does Canada respect foreign precedents?

I think in the US it would only be in very limited circumstances.

 

[shakes the clown]

Comparing your local beer league of guys who can barely skate to professional hockey players is truly something else.

you're right. Pro players need to be held to an even higher standard than beer leaguers.

 

[superdeluxe]

doesn’t mean *that* much, if he gets charged then that really puts things in a spotlight

 

[Iwishihadaspacebar]

I’m pretty sure all this means (based on someone who posted UK law earlier) is that they’re giving him an interview under the assumption he committed manslaughter and is pretty standard act.

That seems to be the case but we'll find out in 24-48 hours for sure. He'll likely either be

Retained in jail (this is for serious crimes / criminals)
Bailed (which means the police believe they could have enough evidence for a conviction or have an admission of crimes)
Released under investigation (meaning the police are still investigating the full extend of the issue)
Released

The top and bottom of that list are the least likely in this scenario but are possibilities.

Just for clarity I'm not a lawyer, just know parts of the process.

 

[francis246]

No, he’s been arrested which does not mean charges are certain.

Exactly it just means the investigators have enough to arrest him on suspicion. That’s probably why the arrest took a few weeks. They probably wanted to have their evidence ready.

 

[bleedgreen]

When I watched the original videos I thought there was no way. Now that I’ve watched a much clearer video I absolutely believe he lunged or kicked out with his left leg. I originally thought he was upended by the first hit….nope. I didn’t want to believe there was anything here, I was 100% on the accident side of this. Watching the clearer video it’s pretty easy to see he intentionally swung his left leg out.

 

[shakes the clown]

In what way did I say he went head hunting with his skate blade? He stuck his leg out to hit or even impede Johnson. That fact he did what he did was unfortunate luck to say the least

kicking his leg back violently in an attempt to make contact with Johnson's upper body takes away any argument that the result was "unfortunate luck" and puts it squarely into the category of "foreseeable consequence".

 

[Jetsfan79]

If it's true that this is a week case, I'm wondering if local police did it for optics and are trying to say " Hey look we tried" to the victim's family. A situation where they will eat the cost if it goes to trial. Or maybe they actually think they have a case. ?

 

[geebster]

If someone dies due to the actions of someone else they should investigate, even if it happened during a sporting event. Some people have commented that since it wasn't after the whistle the police shouldn't be making arrests... I don't think manslaughter law cares about the rules of hockey. If intent is there or recklessness that exceeds what can be expected during a sport then it can be illegal.

McSorley was found guilty of assault with a weapon for hitting Brashear with his stick.

 

[Iwishihadaspacebar]

That seems to be the case but we'll find out in 24-48 hours for sure. He'll likely either be

Retained in jail (this is for serious crimes / criminals)
Bailed (which means the police believe they could have enough evidence for a conviction or have an admission of crimes)
Released under investigation (meaning the police are still investigating the full extend of the issue)
Released

The top and bottom of that list are the least likely in this scenario but are possibilities.

Just for clarity I'm not a lawyer, just know parts of the process.

Just to add to this, in the UK it could be a person admits fault but the Crown Prosecution Service doesn't believe that a conviction is in the best interest of the public (eg the cost of a court case for a small amount of drugs for personal use isn't sensible and the police can then provide smaller punishments like a fine or no punish at all).

 

[Filthy Dangles]

Not a good look for the player, apparently there's a history of sticking the leg out. Something like this is what he probably intended to do and lost control.

It's reckless but hard to see it as criminal

 

[PB37]

I'm thinking they had more dirt on this guy than just the incident.

To my eye, it looked like he tried to kick him intentionally. Maybe something happened earlier in the game between the two or some sort of off-ice beef they had.

Absolutely awful to see that happen on the ice.

 

[DownIsTheNewUp]

I’m genuinely surprised there are so many in this thread that think a negligent act that directly kill’s someone isn’t something to be punished.

 

[robertmac43]

I do have questions about the precedence this sets for the sport in the UK. Are other freak accidents going to lead to manslaughter charges?

 

[Iwishihadaspacebar]

If it's true that this is a week case, I'm wondering if local police did it for optics and are trying to say " Hey look we tried" to the victim's family. A situation where they will eat the cost if it goes to trial. Or maybe they actually think they have a case. ?

It definitely wouldn't be for optics, it is just following the process in events like this.

 

[kingsholygrail]

Guy looked like he was Sean Michaels when he put that kick out. I'm not really surprised this is escalating.