Around the NHL (Part XVIII) - Tankiest tank to have ever tanked

[JaegerDice]

You know nothing about the Hayes situation. When should we have signed him, while he was in a hospital bed while doctors discussed having amputate his leg?

You leave kids in school for 2 years minimum in college. Then if a kid is dominating, maybe. Then Kevin had serious health issues and was 10 hours away from amputation.

The Hawks didn't "make their bed". A series of crazy circumstances happened.

I have no problem with the Blackhawks not signing Hayes until his senior year, when he started going on a tear.

I meant they made their bed in terms of the establishing a pattern that Hayes decided he wanted no part of as a prospect.

They made their bed as far as giving Hayes good reason to want to leave, no matter the dollar figure Chicago put in front of him.

 

[Taze em]

I have no problem with the Blackhawks not signing Hayes until his senior year, when he started going on a tear.

I meant they made their bed in terms of the establishing a pattern that Hayes decided he wanted no part of as a prospect.

They made their bed as far as giving Hayes good reason to want to leave, no matter the dollar figure Chicago put in front of him.

Giving good reason aka being good enough that there were no spots on the team. How terrible.

 

[JaegerDice]

Giving good reason aka being good enough that there were no spots on the team. How terrible.

If you honestly don't believe that Kevin Hayes can't do everything that Nordstrom is doing on the 4th but better, or even what Bickell is doing on the 3rd line to date, then so be it.

Hell, to be quite frank, Hayes is even demolishing the great Teuvo statistically, even while seeing tougher competition and zone starts.

So which of the rookies on the roster, exactly, was he so terrified of not leaping over?

He simply bet that another coach was less likely to disproportionately punish him for the same (or even less egregious) mistakes that established favorites made every other shift.

He's not an idiot and he's not in a vacuum. No doubt he spoke to his brother and saw everything most objective observers saw, and came to the not-at-all-unrealistic conclusion that he would get benched, scratched and sent down for the kind of turn-over or dumb penalty that Andrew Shaw makes roughly 15 times per game.

He obviously made the correct choice.

 

[hisgirlfriday]

He simply bet that another coach was less likely to disproportionately punish him for the same (or even less egregious) mistakes that established favorites made every other shift.

Unless you have some secret inside info on the situation that you have not revealed to date, you have no way of knowing that the ultimate reason Kayes refused to sign with the Hawks is because he shares your unbridled hatred of Joel Quenneville.

For all we know, he could've simply decided he wanted to play closer to home in the Eastern Conference after his brother was no longer in the Hawks org.

 

[Bubba88]

Hayes refused to sign with us and Rangers got NHL ready 1st round pick for nothing. How is that fair? Imagine if we would have drafted him #31 Overall (traded back). No compensation from the league too.

How is that fair?

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Hawks wanted to sign Hayes. They made him an offer. They got #54 Overall for him. They invested a pick in him that was about 30 spots higher. This compensation is not fair. Rangers get him for nothing. It should be the Rangers 2nd what we got.

Hayes got what he wanted.
Rangers too without giving up anything.
Hawks got less than fair value for him. Same with Ducks and Schultz back then.


If a Player doesn't get a contract offered, he becomes a Free Agent and is free to sign with any Team he wants. That's not compareable. It just isn't the same.

There is nothing "unfair" about it. The Blackhawks had over 4 years to sign him. In fact, he apparently wanted to sign after his third year and they said no.

A player is no more obliged to sign with a player who drafted him than a team is to sign a player they drafted. It's a business. Both sides can make whatever business decision they want.

 

[dbridge]

Was it "fair" for the Coyotes to lose their 5th overall pick because he refused to sign with them and only get a 2nd round pick out of it? Nobody is saying that a player is forced to play where they are drafted, but a team should get compensation closer to the worth of the player.

 

[hisgirlfriday]

There is nothing "unfair" about it. The Blackhawks had over 4 years to sign him. In fact, he apparently wanted to sign after his third year and they said no.

A player is no more obliged to sign with a player who drafted him than a team is to sign a player they drafted. It's a business. Both sides can make whatever business decision they want.

Except aren't the rules different for teams holding on to the rights of drafted but unsigned euro players that play overseas vs. college players? Because if they are I'm not sure they should be.

 

[UsernameWasTaken]

Except aren't the rules different for teams holding on to the rights of drafted but unsigned euro players that play overseas vs. college players? Because if they are I'm not sure they should be.

They're not different. The team holds exclusive rights for four years.

Was it "fair" for the Coyotes to lose their 5th overall pick because he refused to sign with them and only get a 2nd round pick out of it? Nobody is saying that a player is forced to play where they are drafted, but a team should get compensation closer to the worth of the player.

Sure it's fair. The Coyotes held his rights for four years and couldn't sign him and never dealt him.

 

[Hawkaholic]

If you honestly don't believe that Kevin Hayes can't do everything that Nordstrom is doing on the 4th but better, or even what Bickell is doing on the 3rd line to date, then so be it.

Hell, to be quite frank, Hayes is even demolishing the great Teuvo statistically, even while seeing tougher competition and zone starts.

So which of the rookies on the roster, exactly, was he so terrified of not leaping over?

He simply bet that another coach was less likely to disproportionately punish him for the same (or even less egregious) mistakes that established favorites made every other shift.

He's not an idiot and he's not in a vacuum. No doubt he spoke to his brother and saw everything most objective observers saw, and came to the not-at-all-unrealistic conclusion that he would get benched, scratched and sent down for the kind of turn-over or dumb penalty that Andrew Shaw makes roughly 15 times per game.

He obviously made the correct choice.

You mean the same coach that has the reputation for not giving young kids a legitimate shot through out his career? (Kreider, Kassian, Hodgson, etc)

He went to a team with a lack of prospects, little cap space, that just traded away pretty much all of their bottom 6 forwards. He took the easy route, no doubt about it.

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Whole lotta insiders on the Kayes situation in here. Think it's a little from column A and a little from column B.

 

[Blue Liner]

What "easy" route is there to making an NHL roster, let alone keeping said roster spot for an entire season? As a rookie, no less. I feel this word is getting thrown around way too liberally around here.

Kinda like people referring to playoff opponents as "easy" match ups.

 

[Hawkaholic]

What "easy" route is there to making an NHL roster, let alone keeping said roster spot for an entire season? As a rookie, no less. I feel this word is getting thrown around way too liberally around here.

Kinda like people referring to playoff opponents as "easy" match ups.

Meant to say easier route. He has earned his spot, no doubt. It's not easy, but it can be easier in one organization over another.

 

[Blue Liner]

Meant to say easier route. He has earned his spot, no doubt. It's not easy, but it can be easier in one organization over another.

Wasn't just aiming that at you, to be clear. Have heard that all in various places. That's more a fair statement, to be sure.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Lets be honest do you think Hayes didn't get a guarantee he would be on opening night roster?

Schultz and Wheeler got guarantees when they signed. Its naïve to believe Hayes just signed with Rangers and worked his way onto opening night roster

 

[Hawkaholic]

Lets be honest do you think Hayes didn't get a guarantee he would be on opening night roster?

Schultz and Wheller got guarantees when they signed. Its naïve to believe Hayes just signed with Rangers and worked his way onto opening night roster

Maybe they told him, yeah, you have a spot on the roster if you sign. Doesn't mean they have to give it to him if he doesn't earn it.

 

[Blue Liner]

Maybe they told him, yeah, you have a spot on the roster if you sign. Doesn't mean they have to give it to him if he doesn't earn it.

This, and doesn't mean they have to let him keep it the entire season if he isn't earning it.

Again, all comes back to it being his choice and being able to dictate to some degree the path his career takes. Regardless of any other talk, that's the bottom line.

And if he was guaranteed a spot, then in reality, why would he not sign there?

 

[Taze em]

Another BS thing about SR college signings is that every team from# 55 to 61 magically loses a spot in the 2nd round. Wtf did they do to deserve that? The system is broken.

 

[Blackhawkswincup]

Since the Hayes defenders are out in full force ,, Let me guess his "Free Morin" nonsense while a Hawks prospect was fine?

He knew he didn't want to sign and led the Hawks on. Its really simple just look at his ESPN interview last January

People bashing Q/Bowman for no reason and praising this bum I will never understand

 

[hawksrule]

What's to be mad at him about? What exactly did he do wrong?

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

Ah yes, Kayes "defenders". Not putting a kid on full blast for taking an out that every college kid has available to them isn't blasting Stan and Q.

 

[Blue Liner]

Since the Hayes defenders are out in full force ,, Let me guess his "Free Morin" nonsense while a Hawks prospect was fine?

He knew he didn't want to sign and led the Hawks on. Its really simple just look at his ESPN interview last January

People bashing Q/Bowman for no reason and praising this bum I will never understand

There's never, ever, any middle ground or actual, normal-functioned perspective in your world, is there? Good God.

 

[x Tame Impala]

Oh hey, this conversation again? I thought we were done with it when Kayes signed in August, 7 MONTHS AGO. Hey can we talk about Pirri some more too?

Anyway, I'm really pulling for Ovechkin to win the triple crown. Seeing Tavares get the Ross and Hart would be awesome though. Isles fans have been waiting a long time for him to get some hardware.

Really sucks that Kane won't get it this year

 

[DisgruntledHawkFan]

And going over the last three pages, there's one guy blasting Q for Kayes, and nobody blaming Stan.

But that wouldn't fit your rigid, unwavering conviction so to hell with the facts.

 

[Blue Liner]

Oh hey, this conversation again? I thought we were done with it when Kayes signed in August, 7 MONTHS AGO. Hey can we talk about Pirri some more too?

Anyway, I'm really pulling for Ovechkin to win the triple crown. Seeing Tavares get the Ross and Hart would be awesome though. Isles fans have been waiting a long time for him to get some hardware.

Really sucks that Kane won't get it this year

Still really disappointing.