Around the NHL: Part III – Oilers Fire Chiarelli [Update: Still Suck]

[Amazing Kreiderman]

I want to preface this with, I haven't watched Wilde play all that much. That said, that article was complete horsecrap. It read like it was written by a teenage fanboy, I bet his original draft had hearts all over it.

People like players who drop based on arbitrary rankings, for one reason only. They're labeled steals. But I prefer players who rise over players who fall. Players are labeled a reach if they go higher than expected which is a negative word, but would you consider Scheifele a bad pick just because he was a reach? Not every reach is bad and not every steal is good

 

[ThirdEye]

I want to preface this with, I haven't watched Wilde play all that much. That said, that article was complete horsecrap. It read like it was written by a teenage fanboy, I bet his original draft had hearts all over it.

Bode Wild hasn't proved jack shit yet. Ok, he's dominating pee wee hockey, but that's what you'd expect from a guy like him.

With that said, I would have taken a guy off the street over Lindblom. For a rebuilding team stockpiled with goalie prospects and lacking in other areas, that pick was nothing short of reprehensible

 

[Lion Hound]

IMO Wilde dropped for his play during WJC. And, he looked like really bad in some of those games.

With that said, i would have been pumped if he was taken with one of the 2nd rounders. Instead, they went off the board...yet again!

 

[effen]

as for taking lindbom at 39OA, if memory serves me, i think he was rated the 3rd best euro goalie overall. he was brutal in his draft season in sweden sub .900 i think. kid had a good u18 tourny winning bronze and we draft him . same old same old. but beny was happy..... ??? other than 30, what has beny done with our other kid net minders ?

If Allaire gets a team to waste a 2nd rounder every 10 years, it's a steal.

Biron was an AHL goalie when he came here, Cam Talbot UDFA to starting goalie elsewhere, Antii Raanta career backup to starting goalie elsewhere. Very little dropoff between Lundqvist and this rotating cast.

All 3 were top tier backups in their time here.

What a take to have.

 

[nyr2k2]

If Allaire gets a team to waste a 2nd rounder every 10 years, it's a steal.

Biron was an AHL goalie when he came here, Cam Talbot UDFA to starting goalie elsewhere, Antii Raanta career backup to starting goalie elsewhere. Very little dropoff between Lundqvist and this rotating cast.

All 3 were top tier backups in their time here.

What a take to have.

Biron had been playing in the NHL for a decade, save 2 games, before he came here. He did have his best year here, and then followed that with a year that was thoroughly mediocre and below his career averages. He then played 8 more games with us before retiring. He also had a five-hole you could drive a truck through.

Talbot, you obviously have to give Allaire credit. Although I don't know how much--having this discussion previously I was told I couldn't hold it against Allaire that we had no dedicated minor league goaltending coach prior to this year. So the fact that Talbot first established himself in Hartford, I don't know who to credit...

Raanta was considered a good up-and-coming goaltender when we acquired him. A lot of Blackhawks fans were annoyed they couldn't find room for him anywhere. He wasn't some bum. His two best seasons, arguably, were immediately before coming here and immediately after leaving here. He was still very good during his time here. Again, I'm sure Allaire helped. He didn't make the guy.

I ran down all the other goalies that we drafted or signed under Allaire's watch that did absolutely nothing. There are plenty. Allaire is good at what he does, but he's no magician. We shouldn't draft goalies in the second round just because Benny says so. That gets you Brandon Halverson and Antoine Lafleur.

 

[effen]

I ran down all the other goalies that we drafted or signed under Allaire's watch that did absolutely nothing. There are plenty. Allaire is good at what he does, but he's no magician. We shouldn't draft goalies in the second round just because Benny says so. That gets you Brandon Halverson and Antoine Lafleur.

If he has the front office hypnotized to that level, he should use it to get a raise instead of new 2nd round goalies every 4 or 5 years. xD

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

IMO Wilde dropped for his play during WJC. And, he looked like really bad in some of those games.

With that said, i would have been pumped if he was taken with one of the 2nd rounders. Instead, they went off the board...yet again!

Chytil was off the board. Kravtsov was off the board. Lundkvist was off the board.

 

[Synergy27]

What fascinates me is how nobody seems to think twice about why a player is falling. What made 20 teams pass on Wilde, compared to where he was ranked (Since people consider rankings as gospel)?

This is perfectly reasonable up to a point. I think Wilde fell further than warranted, I'm ok if some disagree. But to pick a completely off the board goalie in that spot is, and will never stop being, an abomination.

Even if Lindbom becomes the next Hank and Wilde completely busts, the pick was still a mistake because they could have had both.

Drafting Patrick Mahomes in the second round of fantasy football drafts would have been a mistake this year even with his historic season because you could have taken a RB or WR there and then gotten Mahomes much later. Drafts are about finding value.

 

[Synergy27]

Chytil was off the board. Kravtsov was off the board. Lundkvist was off the board.

Your definition of off the board is quite a bit narrower than mine.

 

[KirkAlbuquerque]

Bode Wild hasn't proved jack **** yet. Ok, he's dominating pee wee hockey, but that's what you'd expect from a guy like him.

With that said, I would have taken a guy off the street over Lindblom. For a rebuilding team stockpiled with goalie prospects and lacking in other areas, that pick was nothing short of reprehensible

You never know, maybe Georgiev and Shesty turn out to be nothing more than Al Montya-style career journeyman backups, and Lindblom becomes the next long-term NYR goalie, then Gorts and co will look like geniuses. The problem is we wont find out for like 7 years, so yeah it would have been nice to grab a sexy forward or d-man who puts up a ton of OHL points. Oh well. 20 out of 30 2nd rounders never amount to anything anyway.

 

[Edge]

I personally would've preferred Wilde or Drury with that pick, but I just don't think there's enough to gauge Lindbom one way or the other at this point.

Likewise, I'm hesitant to label anyone a steal at this point. But that's 25 years of following drafts and prospects talking --- so I say that as someone who has probably seen more drafts than the author has birthdays.

I think Lindbom was probably a second or third round pick, so at some point the Rangers didn't think he'd be there witch their next pick. Now, whether that's accurate is unknown.

 

[Machinehead]

The author spelled K’Andre Miller wrong

Why be a PPG player in college when you could be a PPG player against fetuses in the OHL?

 

[Lion Hound]

Chytil was off the board. Kravtsov was off the board. Lundkvist was off the board.

If you are going off ISS ranking that is accurate.

HP Blackbook had Kravtsov at 6. Central scouting had him at 3 European skaters. Redline at 11. ISS had him in the 2nd round. McKenzie also had him up there. He's not a good example.
Lundqvist was 16th with HP Blackbook. Central Scouting he was 14 European Skaters. ISS and redline had him in the 50's. He was all over the map. Rangers also had 2 prior firsts.
Chytil was #28 with HP Blackbook. ISS and Redline had him lower. He was the 11th ranked european skater. Was drafted what 21st? Not off the board.

Lindblom was no where near where he was drafted. Ranked from 98-300's. Lindbom was way off the board.

 

[Sarge13]

"Florida was all set to take Darin Olver, we had to take him with our pick!"

" Dallas Edmonton and Florida were all interested in Mcilrath, had to take him at 10!"

"Lindbom had to be taken there or who knows??"

For years we were competing with those shining beacons of how to build through the draft in Edmonton, Dallas and Florida.

With Lindbom, there's no time to worry about a second rated goalie being taken before round 3, for a position your system is not weak, and in a round you have TWO picks. Could have taken Drury and gambled that the "Bom" would be there in the 3rd round.

There were only five goalies taken in the next 50 picks.

 

[Synergy27]

I personally would've preferred Wilde or Drury with that pick, but I just don't think there's enough to gauge Lindbom one way or the other at this point.

There is not enough there to gauge Lindbom the player, but there is definitely enough there to gauge Lindbom the pick. I find it highly, highly unlikely that he wouldn't have been available with their next pick, if not in the fourth round. And unlike McIlrath where we've heard the reports about Dallas being ready to pounce, I've heard nothing similar with respect to this kid. Very poor value pick considering what was available.

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

If you are going off ISS ranking that is accurate.

HP Blackbook had Kravtsov at 6. Central scouting had him at 3 European skaters. Redline at 11. ISS had him in the 2nd round. McKenzie also had him up there. He's not a good example.
Lundqvist was 16th with HP Blackbook. Central Scouting he was 14 European Skaters. ISS and redline had him in the 50's. He was all over the map. Rangers also had 2 prior firsts.
Chytil was #28 with HP Blackbook. ISS and Redline had him lower. He was the 11th ranked european skater. Was drafted what 21st? Not off the board.

Lindblom was no where near where he was drafted. Ranked from 98-300's. Lindbom was way off the board.

Lundkvist (28)

Kravtsov (9)

Chytil (21)

And as you said, NHL Central Scouting = EU skaters only

 

[Don Chytil]

Lundkvist (28)
View attachment 180783

Kravtsov (9)
View attachment 180785

Chytil (21)
View attachment 180789

And as you said, NHL Central Scouting = EU skaters only

Stuff like this is always interesting to me. How can Kravtsov be #36 per ISS Hockey and then be #12 per TSN and #6 per hockeyprospect.com? You'd think that there'd be some sort of consensus that forms in these publications, but I always see a few cases like this each year.

Would be interesting to see some sort of analysis of which guys get it right most often.. clearly the Rangers scouts must read a lot of hockeyprospect.com

 

[Amazing Kreiderman]

Stuff like this is always interesting to me. How can Kravtsov be #36 per ISS Hockey and then be #12 per TSN and #6 per hockeyprospect.com? You'd think that there'd be some sort of consensus that forms in these publications, but I always see a few cases like this each year.

Would be interesting to see some sort of analysis of which guys get it right most often.. clearly the Rangers scouts must read a lot of hockeyprospect.com

Well... This is why I say "rankings are subjective". People put so much emphasis on rankings when it suits them, but then ignore them when it doesn't. Rankings are just click-bait. Rankings are put together by journalists. If they were as good as fans thought they were, they'd be GMs

 

[Edge]

There is not enough there to gauge Lindbom the player, but there is definitely enough there to gauge Lindbom the pick. I find it highly, highly unlikely that he wouldn't have been available with their next pick, if not in the fourth round. And unlike McIlrath where we've heard the reports about Dallas being ready to pounce, I've heard nothing similar with respect to this kid. Very poor value pick considering what was available.

I think value is all relative to how one views the players and what the result ends up being. And that’s the hard part because it all comes down to what the Rangers feel — regardless of whether or not someone necessarily agrees with that, and what has yet to transpire.

But generally speaking, you don’t tend to hear reports of people being ready to pounce when it comes to picks outside the first round.

Usually those stories don’t come until after a player has reached a certain level of stardom.

I just think there are way too many variables at this particular point in time to make a declaration. And I say that as someone who wouldn’t have taken Lindbom at 39.

 

[eco's bones]

I had a couple issues with the Lindbom pick---first that it was a real reach at 39--second that we already had some very good goalies in the pipeline and at least one stud goaiie in Shestyorkin. FWIW Georgiev is only 22. Goaltending wasn't a big issue or a major future need for us. Keeping in mind as well that the Rangers have been able to find quality free agent goalies in the recent past as in Talbot and Georgiev and even Raanta was a free agent as well by Chicago. There were still some very good players on the board and IMO the Rangers would have better off drafting anyone but a goalie.

 

[leetch99]

TSN predicts the Leafs are now 15 % better following the trade last night . TV in Canada is almost unwatchable on the sports channels/talk shows today unless you are a Leaf fan...I sure hope we can help some club out enough to beat them LOL...

 

[nyr2k2]

If you are going off ISS ranking that is accurate.

HP Blackbook had Kravtsov at 6. Central scouting had him at 3 European skaters. Redline at 11. ISS had him in the 2nd round. McKenzie also had him up there. He's not a good example.
Lundqvist was 16th with HP Blackbook. Central Scouting he was 14 European Skaters. ISS and redline had him in the 50's. He was all over the map. Rangers also had 2 prior firsts.
Chytil was #28 with HP Blackbook. ISS and Redline had him lower. He was the 11th ranked european skater. Was drafted what 21st? Not off the board.

Lindblom was no where near where he was drafted. Ranked from 98-300's. Lindbom was way off the board.

TSN/McKenzie had Lindbom 53, for what that's worth. Otherwise he was definitely off the board. I would have rather had Skarek in general and the Islanders (of course) took him at 72.

 

[Ori]

CBJ tied it against Buffalo 4-4 - the struggle continue with Buffalo it seems.

 

[Tawnos]

Personally, I don’t really think there’s such a thing as off the board after around pick 25.

 

[Synergy27]

I had a couple issues with the Lindbom pick---first that it was a real reach at 39--second that we already had some very good goalies in the pipeline and at least one stud goaiie in Shestyorkin. FWIW Georgiev is only 22. Goaltending wasn't a big issue or a major future need for us. Keeping in mind as well that the Rangers have been able to find quality free agent goalies in the recent past as in Talbot and Georgiev and even Raanta was a free agent as well by Chicago. There were still some very good players on the board and IMO the Rangers would have better off drafting anyone but a goalie.

I think if I was running a team, I would never bother drafting a goalie. There never seems to be such a thing as a surefire, can't miss goalie prospect to begin with. It all seems like such a gamble, but I think coaching and development plays a huge role as well. There is a reason that the Flyers goaltending always sucks, and I refuse to believe it's because they're bad at drafting them.

I am also in the camp that believes that the gap between best goalie in the league and league average goalie is pretty small, and easily overcome by the surrounding team. I'd much rather invest in the skaters than the goalie.

TSN/McKenzie had Lindbom 53, for what that's worth. Otherwise he was definitely off the board. I would have rather had Skarek in general and the Islanders (of course) took him at 72.

You ever think about shifting allegiances? I don't, of course, but I should in a rational world. The Islanders, Devils, and Flyers almost always end up drafting the players I want. I've been a fan long enough now to have seen the Rangers roster completely turn over many, many times. No connection at all remaining to the team I fell in love with as a kid. Rooting for a pro team is a really weird thing.