Around the NHL 2024 - Offseason Moves

[weeze]

Is it Poiles fault they fell off?

Duchene was 1 year removed from setting the scoring record for a forward. Was 2nd leading scorer last season. He really had 1 awful season in 20-21. So I wouldn't say he fell off.

 

[weeze]

Close

Top 6 Sissons>Johansen
Novak>Bottom 6 Sissons
Evangelista>Duchene

I'll give you Sissons and Novak are both better than regular season RyJo mostly. RyJo could take over a game when he wanted too. Problem is he could not do that consistently and for long stretches. Now Playoff RyJo was a beast.

I like Luke but to say he is better than Duchene is just false. Maybe he will be at some point but not currently.

 

[herzausstein]

WRT Duchene's production as a Predator.

249 Games Played
84 Goals
113 Assists
197 Points

That's
0.337 Goals/Game
0.454 Assists/Game
0.791 Points/Game

Career Average
0.323 Goals/Game
0.437 Assists/Game
0.760 Points/Game

So he actually as a whole he slightly outproduced his career normal pace. I dont know about all the fancy stats as to how he performed but in terms of goals/assists/points... he is the player we paid for. He was all over the place so maybe the issue was consistency but he had 1 bad season and 1 exceptional season and they cancelled each other out. The other two were career norm production (or close enough).

 

[Predsanddead24]

My memory is the hope when we signed Duchene was for another 1A/1B center to pair with Johansen so that while we may not have an elite center we'd have two good ones. Duchene ended up not being able to play center well for us and had to go to the wing to find success. The other problem which wasn't Duchene's fault is that Johansen had his own struggles and then we also had the whole Turris situation that came to a head when we were trying to force Duchene at center. I also think the years long pursuit of Duchene by Poile and the contract he got built up the perception he would be the player we got in 21-22 consistently when the reality is he's always been really up and down year to year.

As far as Evangelista vs. Duchene currently I haven't watched the Stars so maybe he is doing better than the box score suggests but statswise they are pretty similar. I wouldn't be surprised if Evangelista ends up with better numbers at the end of the year.

 

[Armourboy]

Duchene's one good year essentially props up his others that he was here. You take it out and he did diddly squat and he sure as heck wasn't the center Poile was paying him to be when he signed him.

 

[hockey diva]

Watching SJ struggle is kind shocking to me. They were good for so long. We lost every playoff series we played them and didn't even look competitive in them. Now they are a complete dumpster fire.

 

[herzausstein]

Duchene's one good year essentially props up his others that he was here. You take it out and he did diddly squat and he sure as heck wasn't the center Poile was paying him to be when he signed him.

Last season
G/Game - 0.310
A/Game - 0.479
P/Game - 0.789

Overall slightly higher than career rates

1st season
G/Game - 0.206
A/Game - 0.460
P/Game - 0.667

Goals/Game down by 10 goals/season, Assists/Game at career norm.

So 1 season where he is down by about 8 points (all goals)
1 travesty of a season
1 excellent season he will never repeat
1 career norm season

He definitely wasnt the center we wanted him to be but thats not being propped up by one season. If you just took the first and last season, itd be very close to career norm numbers for him.

 

[Predsanddead24]

Watching SJ struggle is kind shocking to me. They were good for so long. We lost every playoff series we played them and didn't even look competitive in them. Now they are a complete dumpster fire.

That's what a true tank job combined with terrible goaltending looks like. It is still incredible how bad they are. Scoring just barely over 1 G/game and giving up 5.5 G/game is insane.

 

[Soundgarden]

You'd think SJ would win one by accident by now with Hertl and Couture, but looking at that roster it's rough Couture's on IR, they have a 36 year old Vlasic and then absolutely nothing on the back end, they're in for a long year.

 

[herzausstein]

That's what a true tank job combined with terrible goaltending looks like. It is still incredible how bad they are. Scoring just barely over 1 G/game and giving up 5.5 G/game is insane.

11 games into the season and Auston Matthews has 11 G... all of the Sharks combine for 12 G. ROR and Novak combine for 13G.


Somehow they have a better PK% than us though....

 

[Armourboy]

Last season
G/Game - 0.310
A/Game - 0.479
P/Game - 0.789

Overall slightly higher than career rates

1st season
G/Game - 0.206
A/Game - 0.460
P/Game - 0.667

Goals/Game down by 10 goals/season, Assists/Game at career norm.

So 1 season where he is down by about 8 points (all goals)
1 travesty of a season
1 excellent season he will never repeat
1 career norm season

He definitely wasnt the center we wanted him to be but thats not being propped up by one season. If you just took the first and last season, itd be very close to career norm numbers for him.

Yeah and I bet Poile would have rather kept the 8 million a season if he had to do it all over again. Outside of that one season he was ok, you don't pay a guy 8 x 8 just to be ok especially when he can't even play the position you signed him for.

 

[herzausstein]

Yeah and I bet Poile would have rather kept the 8 million a season if he had to do it all over again.

Same could be said about Turris 6M. Poile just doesn't seem to have good taste in UFA center recently. Good thing ROR is a Trotz guy

 

[Armourboy]

Same could be said about Turris 6M. Poile just doesn't seem to have good taste in UFA center recently. Good thing ROR is a Trotz guy

Oh no doubt. I still look back at Turris realize he basically went from being pretty good in the ECF to toast in less than 2 seasons. I don't even remember what injuries he had, and heck I'm still not even sure it was the injuries or the fact he got paid and just decided he was done giving any kind of effort.

 

[Kat Predator]

That's what a true tank job combined with terrible goaltending looks like. It is still incredible how bad they are. Scoring just barely over 1 G/game and giving up 5.5 G/game is insane.

They're horrible. Exactly what they wanted to be.

 

[Kat Predator]

Oh no doubt. I still look back at Turris realize he basically went from being pretty good in the ECF to toast in less than 2 seasons. I don't even remember what injuries he had, and heck I'm still not even sure it was the injuries or the fact he got paid and just decided he was done giving any kind of effort.

He was a bad apple as well. I mean it takes a special sort of talent to sign a contract with Poile one morning and then get bought out before lunch is over.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

Turris seemed to really strongly believe he deserved a #2C slot by "divine right", and he also had issues with how the team was managing his injuries iirc. He definitely seemed a little full of himself... which isn't good when you sucked on the ice the way he did.

I suspect his "bust" status after being a high draft pick by the Coyotes was probably fairly well-deserved, and he owes his NHL career to some player in Ottawa. I don't know their lines or if that was Stone or somebody else. But outside of that small window of time with the Sens, he sucked everywhere. It really would have been nice if our pro scouting had been able to discern that. Looking at his stats when he signed with Edmonton after we bought him out, though, wow... even I didn't realize just how cooked he was.

 

[Kat Predator]

Turris seemed to really strongly believe he deserved a #2C slot by "divine right", and he also had issues with how the team was managing his injuries iirc. He definitely seemed a little full of himself... which isn't good when you sucked on the ice the way he did.

I suspect his "bust" status after being a high draft pick by the Coyotes was probably fairly well-deserved, and he owes his NHL career to some player in Ottawa. I don't know their lines or if that was Stone or somebody else. But outside of that small window of time with the Sens, he sucked everywhere. It really would have been nice if our pro scouting had been able to discern that. Looking at his stats when he signed with Edmonton after we bought him out, though, wow... even I didn't realize just how cooked he was.

I'm pretty sure he owes his contract/career to Mark Stone.

Looking at the Ottawa situation and that trade from a different angle, we appeared to be getting a productive quasi-1C for a tiny, young unknown defenseman and helping to get the disgruntled Duchene out of Colorado. On paper, that seemed like a steal. I even heard Barry Melrose on NHLN rant about how big a steal Poile had gotten away with for several minutes. But getting back to the point, more skepticism was warranted. Ottawa wanted Turris gone as much as they wanted Duchene, as in the end they got rid of Duchene too.

PS: Yeah, Oilers fans thought they got a steal too, when their team took a chance and brought him in to strengthen down the middle as the guy behind McDavid and McDrai. Like some other moves, that one blew up in their face.

 

[NSH615]

But outside of that small window of time with the Sens, he sucked everywhere

He was good here in his first year. He fit in really well with Smith and Fiala. Not sure what happened after that though.

 

[Porter Stoutheart]

I'm pretty sure he owes his contract/career to Mark Stone.

Looking at the Ottawa situation and that trade from a different angle, we appeared to be getting a productive quasi-1C for a tiny, young unknown defenseman and helping to get the disgruntled Duchene out of Colorado. On paper, that seemed like a steal. I even heard Barry Melrose on NHLN rant about how big a steal Poile had gotten away with for several minutes. But getting back to the point, more skepticism was warranted. Ottawa wanted Turris gone as much as they wanted Duchene, as in the end they got rid of Duchene too.

In the end, these are some the things I tend not to hold against Poile too much. I remember also being a bit "stoked" about acquiring Turris, and a lot of us bought into the hype at the time. Because we were soooooo desperate for help at C.

It might have been nice if our pro scouting had been a little smarter than us fans, though. But it really was such a "desperate" situation for a while there. When you are a GM and are hunting a solution long enough, I can also see how you get a little excited when something seems to FINALLY materialize. Whups.

 

[Legionnaire11]

Watching SJ struggle is kind shocking to me. They were good for so long. We lost every playoff series we played them and didn't even look competitive in them. Now they are a complete dumpster fire.

And they went to the Cup Final the season before we did, they also tanked their future chasing that window like we did, but also didn't have much draft success prior to that window. The Preds might have fallen off, but the Sharks completely cratered. And they haven't even had any solid lottery picks to show for it.

2017 - Josh Norris, 19th - Traded (Mario Ferraro in round 2 is nice)
2018 - Ryan Merkley, 21st- Bust
2019 - No First
2020 - Ozzy Wiesblatt, 31st - TBD, not producing a lot in AHL
2021 - William Eklund, 7th - Should be good but hasn't lit it up in NA yet


the past two years they've gotten Filip Bystedt, Will Smith and Quentin Musty, plus a few potential non-1sts who could be decent NHL players. So the potential to turn around is there but it'll be a few more years.

I'd much rather be in the Preds situation, still fun to watch, at least as many promising prospects as the Sharks and still have Forsberg, Josi, Saros to bridge the gap.

 

[Kat Predator]

In the end, these are some the things I tend not to hold against Poile too much. I remember also being a bit "stoked" about acquiring Turris, and a lot of us bought into the hype at the time. Because we were soooooo desperate for help at C.

It might have been nice if our pro scouting had been a little smarter than us fans, though. But it really was such a "desperate" situation for a while there. When you are a GM and are hunting a solution long enough, I can also see how you get a little excited when something seems to FINALLY materialize. Whups.

Yeah. The move worked for a while and seemed to have been a steal in fact.

Then, things went real bad, real fast and Poile was forced to eat that contract to get rid of the guy. Poile would never talk ill of someone, often wishes players he trades the best, and gave others plenty of chances. Turris was in a class by himself.

 

[Kat Predator]

And they went to the Cup Final the season before we did, they also tanked their future chasing that window like we did, but also didn't have much draft success prior to that window. The Preds might have fallen off, but the Sharks completely cratered. And they haven't even had any solid lottery picks to show for it.

2017 - Josh Norris, 19th - Traded (Mario Ferraro in round 2 is nice)
2018 - Ryan Merkley, 21st- Bust
2019 - No First
2020 - Ozzy Wiesblatt, 31st - TBD, not producing a lot in AHL
2021 - William Eklund, 7th - Should be good but hasn't lit it up in NA yet


the past two years they've gotten Filip Bystedt, Will Smith and Quentin Musty, plus a few potential non-1sts who could be decent NHL players. So the potential to turn around is there but it'll be a few more years.

I'd much rather be in the Preds situation, still fun to watch, at least as many promising prospects as the Sharks and still have Forsberg, Josi, Saros to bridge the gap.

The biggest difference was that Poile did "stand pat" for a while. (Some were really disappointed in that.) He tinkered around the edges, but generally liked the group and leadership he had assembled.

In SJ, Wilson continued to throw picks at big splash trades and said he felt the Sharks were only a player or two short. He ended up not only trading those picks but blowing a large chunk of his cap on guys who didn't really fit, were damaged goods, and trying to get hometown discounts from some of his leadership group at the same time.

Yeah, we're in a much better situation than San Jose.

 

[ShagDaddy]

Tuttis had a major foot injury that started his decline that he never recovered from. Can’t skate on bad feet. Ol’ 2 chains was pretty good when he first got here.

 

[Bringer of Jollity]

San Jose having a -43 goal differential in just 11 games is absolutely mind-blowing. And watch them go through this historically awful season and then Chicago wind up with the 1st overall anyway.

 

[101st_fan]

San Jose having a -43 goal differential in just 11 games is absolutely mind-blowing. And watch them go through this historically awful season and then Chicago wind up with the 1st overall anyway.

SJ vs Edmonton is coming up. Two teams that have minimal to no defense and key players at various levels of dinged up to on IR.

Somebody has to lose.