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ChicagoBlues
Terraformers
- Oct 24, 2006
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- 7,605
Swayman Gate is good drama!
The Sway Swindler Swings the Ullmark Sortie and then holds out to undermine the Boston Bruins.
Brilliant conspiracy!!
The Sway Swindler Swings the Ullmark Sortie and then holds out to undermine the Boston Bruins.
Brilliant conspiracy!!
Zero reason for the Blues to invest big money in Swayman when (1) goaltending is a strength today, (2) Hofer seems poised to provide quality play with the potential to become the starter in the not too distant future, (3) you’d be doing the Broons a favor by sending them a goalie who is cheaper and arguably better, (4) the AHL pipeline isn’t exactly devoid of goaltending talent.
The money spent on Swayman would be better served filling actual holes in the roster. If you want to trade Binner, you do so because you believe that you can win with Hofer and a kid and go cheap on G while selling high on #50. You don’t “upgrade” and pay more in the process when you don’t currently have a problem to solve.
The money spent on Swayman would be better served filling actual holes in the roster. If you want to trade Binner, you do so because you believe that you can win with Hofer and a kid and go cheap on G while selling high on #50. You don’t “upgrade” and pay more in the process when you don’t currently have a problem to solve.
Brian39
Registered User
- Apr 24, 2014
- 7,783
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I disagree that teams shouldn't be interested in upgrading players in positions that are already a strength. I view Thomas as a strength and capable of being the 1C on a Cup winning team. But there are absolutely centers I'd swap him for, including ones that would require us to pay more money.
I'm very much in favor of trying to get younger and better at any position whenever there is an opportunity to do so.
I think Swayman is currently a better goaltender than Binner and is better than the ceiling of every other goalie in our organization. I absolutely think that 8 years of Swayman on a deal no more than the Thomas/Kyrou contracts would give us a better chance at a Cup long term than any combination of keeping Binner and/or eventually turning the net over to Hofer.
I'm not paying a bunch of other assets to do it. I'm not adding a 1st rounder. I'm not adding any of our top prospects. I'm not adding another valuable roster player. This would be a trade where I'd be looking to take advantage of a team that has painted themselves into a corner by offering them a short term solution to their goalie and cap problem in exchange for a guy I believe will be elite when our window re-opens. If they demand more, then they can explore other options.
But I completely disagree that you shouldn't try to get younger and better in an area just because you are already good in that area.
“Better” is subjective. Boston’s defense is inarguably better than the Blues’, and Swayman hasn’t exactly been a playoff horse to this point. Binner had the second-best goals saved above expected last year, and seems to be capable of getting locked in and tuning out the noise or moving past a bad prior game. Swayman is younger, yes. But so what? It’s not like Binner and Hofer are at risk of aging out in the next five years. Those two combined make less than Swayman would command and who’s to say Swayman doesn’t wilt behind the Blues leaky team-defense. Hard-pass.
If you want to talk to me about upgrading Thomas our Buchnevich to younger, better options, I’m interested. But rolling the dice on goaltending which has FINALLY been solved for the first time in decades seems foolish.
I would be furious if the Blues entertained that.
Even if Swayman is better, I think the difference is negligible. I don’t see any point in spending 2-3 mil more per year on a different goaltender when we already know Binnington is good enough to win a Cup. He’s the only goalie we’ve had that’s done it.
IMO we’d be crazy to even offer that to Boston and would be doing them a huge solid to get them out of a bad situation. I have zero interest in helping them out by saying “oh you’re in a tough spot with your goaltending? Here, you can have a Cup winning goaltender in Jordan Binnington instead.” f*** no. The Bruins can kick rocks.
And I haven’t even mentioned Hofer either. Why would we want to commit a long-term contract to Swayman when Hofer might be a legit future #1 for cheaper? I think it’s a waste of time trying to shake up what is clearly the main strength of our team. If you want to talk about upgrading our centers or defensemen then I’m all ears. Goaltending is the one position we don’t need to touch.
Brian39
Registered User
- Apr 24, 2014
- 7,783
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Swayman had a .933 in 12 games in the playoffs last year. He was dominant against the Leafs and very good against the Panthers (especially in the back half of the series when their backs were against the wall). His career .922 SV% in the playoffs through 18 starts is noticeably better than Binner's .910.
Moneypuck has Binner at 5th in all situations. Swayman was 4th despite GSAx being a cumulative stat and him playing fewer games. Swayman was also 4th if you looked at GSAx per 60 while Binner was 9th. Swayman was also ahead of Binner if you just look at GSAx at 5 on 5 as well.
Binner followed up a 4+ goal against game with another 4+ goal against game 8 times last year. It happened to Swayman twice. Boston was for sure better defensively, but there is every indication that Swayman has the same ability.
Binner will be 33 at the end of his contract in 3 years and 35 in 5 years. If he is still performing as a legit #1 guy at the end of his contract, we will either need to let him walk or pay him more than $8M a year on a contract with uncomfortable term. Age is absolutely a factor.
We're just a year removed from Binner putting up brutal numbers behind the crappy defense. Who's to say that we can count on Binner to be the 2023/24 version every year for several more years? Binner wasn't as bad as his numbers looked in 2021/22, but he certainly wasn't great. Swayman has been very good at every stop of the way in his career and Boston's defense last year wasn't nearly as good as it has been in year's past.
I genuinely don't see an argument for Binner over Swayman on a strict 1 to 1 comparison and I say that as someone that very strongly believes that Binner should have gotten Vezina consideration last year.
No thanks. Not gonna trade Binny for a dickbag that just wants a pay day without winning anything worth a shit.
Now use your logical thinking skills instead of your stat sheets like Dom. Swayman has done nothing to prove he deserves what he's asking for and no, regular season stats mean nothing to me.
We know Schenn is a good enough 2C to win a cup. Why are we trying to get Buchnevich there? Just let Schenn stay 2C for ever. He won a cup once as 2C. He is the only #2C we have ever had do that. </sarcasm> Yes, I am being sarcastic here. But its been 5 years, let's judge players for who they are now.
Things change. Binner has never repeated the #s he put up in 2019. He's had down-right bad years. Although he appears to have his head on straight now, he is aging. And our core is younger than he is. Its going to be a few years until we can compete. Will he be as good in 3 years? Instead we could get a younger goalie whose age matches our core who would be signed long term with a rising cap. If the price is right, its a no brainier to swap the two if we can for me and I generally do not like paying a ton for a goalie.
*As always, when discussing Binnington, I note for transparency that I do not like him as a person, and that may effect may discussion of him as a player.
ChicagoBlues
Terraformers
- Oct 24, 2006
- 17,005
- 7,605
Agree & disagree. Swayman has yet to play a full #1 starter load, but it appears that he would've trended similarly during his Vezina year if extended to another 12 GP/GS. His numbers are impressive, but regardless of the real number offered by Neely and friends, it couldn't have been so low that he would hold out.
As you say, he hasn't proven himself enough to warrant an 8x8. But as a person who is market force oriented, some team would've paid something close to 8x8 because we've already seen a reset in relative cap value across rosters. What I mean is that big contracts to unproven players have been thrown around aplenty this offseason.
I'm not impressed with either side, but the general sentiment at HFBruins is one of disdain toward Swayman and Gross as unfaithful actors.
What I care about is, the Boston Bruins are having problems. Yum!
I mean there’s a clear difference between a 33-year old forward who plays a physical game, and a 31 year old goaltender in terms of who will age better. Not to mention we have Hofer in net and don’t have a guy like that at center behind Thomas, so It’s not a good comparison, but at least you admitted your bias and the fact that you can’t have an objective convo about Binnington.
Binnington had a great season last year behind a horrid defensive team. He was great in the 2022 playoffs before he got injured. So yes, we have seen that he can play to that level again. It’s not a concern except to people who just don’t like the guy.
By the time we are competitive though, Binnington will be 33 or older. And goalies age better, but they still age. I can have as objective a conversation about Binnington as the people who idolize him for 2019 and ignore everything else. I admit my biases and hence can account for them.
He has played at a great level last year, and hopefully he continues it. But you named two seasons out of 5 since the cup. Plus. one of those he was terrible for all but 6 games. He lost the net in 2022. He had a great run in a small sample size of the playoffs that year, but 6 games doesn't undo the awful regular season he had.
PocketNines
Cutter's Way
Itsnotatrap
Registered User
- Oct 6, 2013
- 1,344
- 1,693
I get the point of flipping Binny for someone younger in isolation, and especially of the tension between his value being highest possibly right now exactly when emotionally fans would not be inclined to move him. Still, I am more of the idea that goalies are volatile, and 8 years inherently carries a lot of risk regardless of age for that position. So I’d not be too inclined to go down that path at this point in time.
Stupendous Yappi
Idiot Control Now!
I don’t know how Boston recovers this situation, but getting Binnington back as the main piece is probably a terrible deal for them. I don’t see the Blues adding enough to make it work, without getting a crazy steal.
I also wonder at whether Boston would be in his no trade list. I think he has a 16 team list or something like that, I’d think Boston would be unlikely to be there.
It would be a ballsy move by Armstrong. There would be a portion of the fan base that would revolt. It seems hard to justify that risk when you have stability at that position right now and good young talent coming up. Still, would be cool to secure Vezina caliber talent.
My prediction if the Blues traded Binnington to Boston he’d win the Vezina the next season to spite us.
I also wonder at whether Boston would be in his no trade list. I think he has a 16 team list or something like that, I’d think Boston would be unlikely to be there.
It would be a ballsy move by Armstrong. There would be a portion of the fan base that would revolt. It seems hard to justify that risk when you have stability at that position right now and good young talent coming up. Still, would be cool to secure Vezina caliber talent.
My prediction if the Blues traded Binnington to Boston he’d win the Vezina the next season to spite us.
PocketNines
Cutter's Way
What I am going to remember most about Binnington's career besides the Cup is that he was better than the fan base that "supported" him.
Yes, an actual headcase.
ChicagoBlues
Terraformers
- Oct 24, 2006
- 17,005
- 7,605
Swayman is ANOTHER entitled, whiny little bitch. I want nothing to do with him.
joe galiba
Registered User
- Apr 16, 2020
- 2,351
- 2,616
I actually don't mind a player being criticized and using it to motivate themselves and I don't mind a player looking to maximize their contract
what does bothER me is a player and agent talking about their negotiations in the press and then bitching when the team turns around and does it too
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Stupendous Yappi
Idiot Control Now!
100%.
Arbitration is a fraught process because you have to present criticisms of your player to the arbitrator to help establish the fair market value, but you want the player to exceed those projections and most lose confidence or trust with the team.
Swayman’s only error here is going public about this part.
ChicagoBlues
Terraformers
- Oct 24, 2006
- 17,005
- 7,605
BrokenFace
Registered User
Well he's a goalie. I don't want a team that avoids headcase goalies. They win cups.
Blues fans who love Binnington calling Swayman thin-skinned and a headcase....roflmao.
people who think a hockey player causing shit on the ice is a headcase but not the guy crying to the media that someone hurt his feelings lol
ChicagoBlues
Terraformers
- Oct 24, 2006
- 17,005
- 7,605
