Around the NHL 11 - 2023/24

[snowkiddin]

In a vacuum sure but if these massive deals were providing the value these models say they are we'd see plenty more cup wins. It looks like quality depth with stars making in around 9-10 million wins in this league and the goal is to win after all.

But at some point we may see the total elimination of the NHL's middle class and these deals become palatable.

Edit: Even if the cap rises by $4 million next year he'd still be above 15% of it and this puts more ammunition in Marners camp for next summer.

Have to think Nylander is gone now too.

 

[DRW204]

Interesting way of paying him. I really need someone to explain how paying a player in all signing bonuses is better than just paying it all in salary. The cap hit is the same, so why? Something to do with taxes?

I know historically the Jets are against having large signing bonuses, and I know the signing bonuses still get paid out if there is a work stoppage which I guess could happen when the current CBA ends but that's not until 2025-26....but what are the other reasons?

Receiving money now > receiving money later.

Taxes at state level on your resident state. So Florida, Nevada, Tennessee, Texas no state income tax.

Idk how much of it matters to teams but does lower opex through the year too, or would improve the liability side of things. But evidently need cash on hand to pay the players. Also they'll have to pay if there's a lockout or not.

 

[Duke749]

Where have you been?

I tend to go on an HF vacation once all the off-season fun slows down. Sometimes just need a break.

 

[tbcwpg]

In a vacuum sure but if these massive deals were providing the value these models say they are we'd see plenty more cup wins. It looks like quality depth with stars making in around 9-10 million wins in this league and the goal is to win after all.

But at some point we may see the total elimination of the NHL's middle class and these deals become palatable.

Edit: Even if the cap rises by $4 million next year he'd still be above 15% of it and this puts more ammunition in Marners camp for next summer.

Once the cap is up, $13m will be the new $9-10m. The Leafs are a very strong team. I don't know why people have such a hard time to admit that. I fully admit that I was a Leafs fan before the Jets came back and I still am when the Jets fortunes aren't involved, but the fact that some people think Matthews is overpaid by this new deal is just mind boggling to me. The guy is over a PPG every year, he put up 60 goals a year ago. I think some people see the new highest paid player in hockey label and judge it based on that but he's worth a lot of money. Sure point to the team's playoff record but the Leafs had a bad playoff record before him and they beat themselves in their own minds before their opposition does. Even with that, they lost to an insane Bobrovsky last season.

As for Marner's camp and next season, who cares really. Matthews is the lynch pin and the most important player they've got so if Marner and Nylander don't like that, then maybe the Leafs will do what you suggest and get two quality players for that money. The Leafs are in their window and can't put too much thought into 3+ years from now.

 

[Jetabre]

That Matthews contract is a bit rough, if he's going to get paid that much you'd at least want him on a longer term..

 

[ps241]

I tend to go on an HF vacation once all the off-season fun slows down. Sometimes just need a break.

That is a great idea.

For the last few seasons I have done the same thing with the Jets team. In person I still really enjoy hockey but since Covid I have lost my passion for watching Jets hockey on tv.

 

[ps241]

Once the cap is up, $13m will be the new $9-10m. The Leafs are a very strong team. I don't know why people have such a hard time to admit that. I fully admit that I was a Leafs fan before the Jets came back and I still am when the Jets fortunes aren't involved, but the fact that some people think Matthews is overpaid by this new deal is just mind boggling to me. The guy is over a PPG every year, he put up 60 goals a year ago. I think some people see the new highest paid player in hockey label and judge it based on that but he's worth a lot of money. Sure point to the team's playoff record but the Leafs had a bad playoff record before him and they beat themselves in their own minds before their opposition does. Even with that, they lost to an insane Bobrovsky last season.

As for Marner's camp and next season, who cares really. Matthews is the lynch pin and the most important player they've got so if Marner and Nylander don't like that, then maybe the Leafs will do what you suggest and get two quality players for that money. The Leafs are in their window and can't put too much thought into 3+ years from now.

Leafs are all in on how they are going to try to win a cup. Matthews is the lynch pin so they had no barganing power this time around due to his pending UFA status. Like the Oilers the Leafs have their super stars and both organizations will play out their top heavy hands with shallow prospect pools. I consider both teams flawed but good enough to win a cup if things break right.

 

[snowkiddin]

Once the cap is up, $13m will be the new $9-10m. The Leafs are a very strong team. I don't know why people have such a hard time to admit that. I fully admit that I was a Leafs fan before the Jets came back and I still am when the Jets fortunes aren't involved, but the fact that some people think Matthews is overpaid by this new deal is just mind boggling to me. The guy is over a PPG every year, he put up 60 goals a year ago. I think some people see the new highest paid player in hockey label and judge it based on that but he's worth a lot of money. Sure point to the team's playoff record but the Leafs had a bad playoff record before him and they beat themselves in their own minds before their opposition does. Even with that, they lost to an insane Bobrovsky last season.

As for Marner's camp and next season, who cares really. Matthews is the lynch pin and the most important player they've got so if Marner and Nylander don't like that, then maybe the Leafs will do what you suggest and get two quality players for that money. The Leafs are in their window and can't put too much thought into 3+ years from now.

The main reason people think he’s overpaid is because of the term IMO. If you get him locked up at $13.25 for eight years then it looks more reasonable, at least compared to how others are being paid. And compared to his peers, he’s being overpaid. Yes, McDavid will reset the market in a few years and this deal will look better but for now he signed for more money than Mack on half the term while being inferior to Mack. Pasta just put up 113 points and 60 goals and signed long-term at less than Matthews.

I get it, Matthews had all the bargaining power and Toronto had to retain him but it’s tough to argue that he gave the Leafs a discount.

 

[10Ducky10]

Once the cap is up, $13m will be the new $9-10m. The Leafs are a very strong team. I don't know why people have such a hard time to admit that. I fully admit that I was a Leafs fan before the Jets came back and I still am when the Jets fortunes aren't involved, but the fact that some people think Matthews is overpaid by this new deal is just mind boggling to me. The guy is over a PPG every year, he put up 60 goals a year ago. I think some people see the new highest paid player in hockey label and judge it based on that but he's worth a lot of money. Sure point to the team's playoff record but the Leafs had a bad playoff record before him and they beat themselves in their own minds before their opposition does. Even with that, they lost to an insane Bobrovsky last season.

As for Marner's camp and next season, who cares really. Matthews is the lynch pin and the most important player they've got so if Marner and Nylander don't like that, then maybe the Leafs will do what you suggest and get two quality players for that money. The Leafs are in their window and can't put too much thought into 3+ years from now.

The cap would have to go up one hell of a lot for that to happen.

 

[tbcwpg]

The main reason people think he’s overpaid is because of the term IMO. If you get him locked up at $13.25 for eight years then it looks more reasonable, at least compared to how others are being paid. And compared to his peers, he’s being overpaid. Yes, McDavid will reset the market in a few years and this deal will look better but for now he signed for more money than Mack on half the term while being inferior to Mack. Pasta just put up 113 points and 60 goals and signed long-term at less than Matthews.

I get it, Matthews had all the bargaining power and Toronto had to retain him but it’s tough to argue that he gave the Leafs a discount.

To me, he's earned that amount, the term doesn't really factor in for me. Pasta took a discount as well, plus that team is a sinking ship right now so, as people on here are fond to say, that contract may not age well. I'm not saying Matthews gave the Leafs a discount but he's not overpaid, 4 years or no.

 

[surixon]

Once the cap is up, $13m will be the new $9-10m. The Leafs are a very strong team. I don't know why people have such a hard time to admit that. I fully admit that I was a Leafs fan before the Jets came back and I still am when the Jets fortunes aren't involved, but the fact that some people think Matthews is overpaid by this new deal is just mind boggling to me. The guy is over a PPG every year, he put up 60 goals a year ago. I think some people see the new highest paid player in hockey label and judge it based on that but he's worth a lot of money. Sure point to the team's playoff record but the Leafs had a bad playoff record before him and they beat themselves in their own minds before their opposition does. Even with that, they lost to an insane Bobrovsky last season.

As for Marner's camp and next season, who cares really. Matthews is the lynch pin and the most important player they've got so if Marner and Nylander don't like that, then maybe the Leafs will do what you suggest and get two quality players for that money. The Leafs are in their window and can't put too much thought into 3+ years from now.

If he signed for 6 years I'd have time for that argument. But he signed for only 4, that likely isn't enough time for the cap to rise enough

 

[SCP Guy]

Mathews got paid what he’s worth…. No discount but it’s business… In 4 years if both parties are still interested they can pay him top dollar for another contract. No problem for the Leafs or AM….I’m happy it stretches the Leafs cap but it will not be the downfall of the team if he stays healthy as he’s a top C in the NHL

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Four years seems fine to me and it really isn't that much of an increase over his previously overpaid contract... right or wrong, Trelliving can basically retool the team around Matthews and Reilly.

With Matthews locked in, I'd actually gamble on a small step back this season and sell off a bunch of free agents.

 

[bumblebeeman]

I'm happy about the Mathews signing for 2 reasons:
1. We don't have to hear conjecture about if he will sign or not all year
2. He got as much money out of the Leafs as he could

 

[JetsFan815]

Once the cap is up, $13m will be the new $9-10m.

The cap would have to go up to $110.63 million for Matthews $13.25 million caphit to be the "new 10 million".

It would have to go up to $123 million for it to be the "new 9 million".

Safe to say neither is happening in the next 4 years.

 

[scelaton]

Matthews is a top scorer in the league but I don't even have him rated in my top-5 forwards overall (MacKinnon, Tkachuk, Pastrnak, Drai and McDavid). Rantanen is in the picture as well.

Have a look at their AAVs (aside from McDavid, who is in a class of his own and McKinnon, who has won a cup and is a better player) and tell me he is not very generously paid. Glad I am not the Toronto GM...for many reasons.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Matthews is a top scorer in the league but I don't even have him rated in my top-5 forwards overall (MacKinnon, Tkachuk, Pastrnak, Drai and McDavid). Rantanen is in the picture as well.

Have a look at their AAVs (aside from McDavid, who is in a class of his own and McKinnon, who has won a cup and is a better player) and tell me he is not very generously paid. Glad I am not the Toronto GM...for many reasons.

If Trellising re-ups Marner in a year at $13m then you know something is wrong inside that org

 

[tbcwpg]

The cap would have to go up to $110.63 million for Matthews $13.25 million caphit to be the "new 10 million".

It would have to go up to $123 million for it to be the "new 9 million".

Safe to say neither is happening in the next 4 years.

I don't mean it in the literal sense, more in the that's what you'll have to pay superstars sense. The market for performing players coming off of their RFA days is being set.

 

[Buffdog]

I'm actually starting to come around on the Matthews deal from the Leafs POV. Sure, you're overpaying him a bit but you're getting his prime years. Say they managed to talk him into 12Mx8... that might not have aged well

Even with the cap going up, overpaying 33 year olds based on their prior production seems like something to avoid if possible. Sure, matthews could still be lighting it up into his mid 30s, but there's nothing saying they can't re-sign him if that's the case

 

[RabidOne]

I think the model reflects more that players who are less productive are overpaid and less that superstar players are underpaid.

Will this be >15% when the deal kicks in? Cap is supposed to increase, so we'll see. I know you don't think he's a top 5 player in the league, I disagree, but I do think that this amount of money is fair. I'd rather pay more to players that consistently score 100+ points than overpay some middle 6 guy.

Except Matthews in his 7 year career has put up 100 points once. He has had one 60 goal season. TO taken to the cleaners again.

 

[JetsFan815]

I don't mean it in the literal sense, more in the that's what you'll have to pay superstars sense. The market for performing players coming off of their RFA days is being set.

Leafs said the same when Marner/Matthews signed their new deals that those deals were the new normal... did not happen.

Problem with you being a trendsetter is if the trend doesn't happen, you are left holding the purse. Leafs should've focused on getting players on comparable deals to comparable players rather than setting new salary/term/contract benchmarks and expecting the rest of the league to follow those benchmarks. In a world where Pastrnaks and McKinnon's of the world are signing for 11 and 12.6 million respectively for max term, Matthews getting 13.25 for just 4 years is quite an over-payment.

 

[JetsFan815]

I'm actually starting to come around on the Matthews deal from the Leafs POV. Sure, you're overpaying him a bit but you're getting his prime years. Say they managed to talk him into 12Mx8... that might not have aged well

Even with the cap going up, overpaying 33 year olds based on their prior production seems like something to avoid if possible. Sure, matthews could still be lighting it up into his mid 30s, but there's nothing saying they can't re-sign him if that's the case

Aging curves of star players tend to be pretty nice and you can expect them to be productive at 33-34-35. Max term also helps you take advantage of a rising cap in a way 4 year deal doesn't. I would not be shy offering elite star player max term esp when the contract would begin at the age of 25 those are prime 8 years.

If Matthews was a Jet my reaction would be- glad to have him signed up for 4 more years but disappointment and wondering why they are the only team in the league that seems to get squeezed by their star players on contracts in both AAV and term when there are guys signing more favorable AAV and term contracts all over the league.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

Aging curves of star players tend to be pretty nice and you can expect them to be productive at 33-34-35. Max term also helps you take advantage of a rising cap in a way 4 year deal doesn't. I would not be shy offering elite star player max term esp when the contract would begin at the age of 25 those are prime 8 years.

If Matthews was a Jet my reaction would be- glad to have him signed up for 4 more years but disappointment and wondering why they are the only team in the league that seems to get squeezed by their star players on contracts in both AAV and term when there are guys signing more favorable AAV and term contracts all over the league.

Would be a good deal if Toronto had saved money at some point with a bridge deal... but wonder boy did not do that.

 

[Hobble]

I'm happy about the Mathews signing for 2 reasons:
1. We don't have to hear conjecture about if he will sign or not all year
2. He got as much money out of the Leafs as he could

We will still be spending our first Jets game intermission hearing about whether Matthews played like a +13mil player in his first game.

 

[DRW204]

Convo sure made a swift change this offseason from Matthews surely walking and is Arizona or LA bound, to now re signing with the Leafs and not getting enough term.

Don't think he or agent were gonna go over 4 years with anyone. And as a UFA he probably gets the same aav or more.

Nothing stops him from re-signing with the Leafs at the end of this deal, just like he did now. If the Leafs in year-3 of his deal want to go rebuild or a different direction, I can see advantages of having him 1-2 years remaining vs another 5-6 for an acquiring team, especially with the typical large signing bonus structure.