Around the NHL 11 - 2023/24

[surixon]

There's an interesting 'butterfly effect' to having these generational talents on your team. They put upwards pressure on your internal cap, just as the Jets having near elite star players on good value contracts pushing values down.

I really wonder if it's worth it to have a McDavid, a Matthews or a Bedard on your team?

Sure, they're fun as hell to watch and they can win you games near single handedly, but they harm your cap so much that they could prevent you from building a legitimate perennial contender.

Exacerbating this is covid and how it flattened the cap.

Luckily for the Jets, our one superstar is at the goaltending position, which has 3 benefits:

Goalies, more than any other position, impact team results.
Goals tend to get paid less than other position players at an elite level
You can't really use a goalies salary as a comparison for other players (probably has a hand in the above)

Well Pittsburgh won 3 cups with Crosby so if you do a good enough job building a team around a player that good it can pay off in spades.

Chicago 3 with Kane and Toews, Tampa won two with Stamkos, Hedman, Kucherov.

So I think top talent is a real driver towards cups, but its not the only driver and a team management and cap management plays a big role.

That's why I'd rather stay away from Lindholm. Just smacks of a mistake.

I really wish we'd see if 13 or 91 can take that 2c spot.

Yeah, when KC is back I'd like to see some focus on that as I also don't want to pay big for a FA at the deadline.

 

[ps241]

To be fair, neither of those players are anywhere close to what the core four can do by themselves. No one expected Tavares to live up to his contract, and he arguably did for the entire amount. It's actually quite remarkable. Giving max term to a skill player like Nylander and Marner isn't as bad as giving max term to, say, Wheeler or Ovechkin. I think this signals a changing of the guard, though. No team can win while being that top heavy. The Leafs have proven this for the last 5 years now. So, what is their plan? Try to re-sign Tavares for less and trade Marner? There's no chance he's going to settle for less than 10.5m AAV when his contract is up next.

JT will be 35 in year one of his next contract. Not sure what the plan will be at that point and Treliving is a wild card but his current level window might be closing at that point. The fall off can happen so fast in the mid 30’s.

 

[Buffdog]

Well Pittsburgh won 3 cups with Crosby so if you do a good enough job building a team around a player that good it can pay off in spades.

Chicago 3 with Kane and Toews, Tampa won two with Stamkos, Hedman, Kucherov.

So I think top talent is a real driver towards cups, but its not the only driver and a team management and cap management plays a big role.



Yeah, when KC is back I'd like to see some focus on that as I also don't want to pay big for a FA at the deadline.

While the Pens were winning the cup, it could be argued that Malkin was the 2nd best player in the world at the time. They had one elite D in Letang and the goalies were good enough

Same was true with Chicago... they had Seabrook on D and Crawford held down the fort.

Tampa has Hedman and Vasi (obviously)

Compare that with Oilers and Leafs who have the top end talent in spades but can't win. Supporting cast is just as integral IMHO

 

[GeorgeJETson]

If the Leaf's go out early you would think that Marner would be the odd man out as they try to fix their D and find a goalie, oh an journeyman Jones is not the answer even though the media are pumping his tires like they usually do taking in small samples.

If the Leafs go out early, I expect SN to find some deluded logic how if you eliminate all 15 other playoff teams, they were the best team and deserved the cup

 

[surixon]

While the Pens were winning the cup, it could be argued that Malkin was the 2nd best player in the world at the time. They had one elite D in Letang and the goalies were good enough

Same was true with Chicago... they had Seabrook on D and Crawford held down the fort.

Tampa has Hedman and Vasi (obviously)

Compare that with Oilers and Leafs who have the top end talent in spades but can't win. Supporting cast is just as integral IMHO

That is where the smart management point of my post comes in.

 

[RabidOne]

There's an interesting 'butterfly effect' to having these generational talents on your team. They put upwards pressure on your internal cap, just as the Jets having near elite star players on good value contracts pushing values down.

I really wonder if it's worth it to have a McDavid, a Matthews or a Bedard on your team?

Sure, they're fun as hell to watch and they can win you games near single handedly, but they harm your cap so much that they could prevent you from building a legitimate perennial contender.

Exacerbating this is covid and how it flattened the cap.

Luckily for the Jets, our one superstar is at the goaltending position, which has 3 benefits:

Goalies, more than any other position, impact team results.
Goals tend to get paid less than other position players at an elite level
You can't really use a goalies salary as a comparison for other players (probably has a hand in the above)

Gonna say you can only have one.
Prime Sid? Yes please.
The problem for the Leafs and the Oilers is paying a premium for the not generational.
Is Marner worth 11 mill? Nurse worth 9.5?
Not from my perspective and that more than the generational player is whats killing them.

 

[10Ducky10]

These guys are both outstanding wingers, asking them to be something they are not is asking for trouble.

Like we may not make it out if the first round with Lindholm. That's always a risk.

But if Lindholm is a risk, what do we call putting a winger at center and asking them to be 2C on a Cup contender?

To me the risk we are presented with is not strengthening the roster at a key position where one injury is a single point of failure for us. These chances don't come around all that often. Talent is one thing, but we have the chemistry, buy-in, cohesiveness needed.

We will be trying to go to war every 2nd night for up to two months. We can't just have the best horses, we have to bd prepared for losing some along the way, possibly even a key one.

Volare has played the center position for LA.

 

[raideralex99]

You built your team around an elite center, elite defenseman and an elite goalie that is the receipt to winning a Cup.
Once you have those 3 players you add the pieces but do not over pay on other contracts.
As you can see with the Jets ... depth is the most important thing after that ... your 3rd and 4th lines plus having a #2 center helps too which I think the Jets will be shopping for at TDL.

 

[Flair Hay]

Volare has played the center position for LA.

I'm not doubting that him and Perfetti have played center position. And could play alright for what we need doing it. Like Wheeler did. But they have been wingers at the NHL level for a reason. Very good ones.

Lindholm played a lot of his career at RW so I wouldn't rule it out completely. But Vilardi doesn't have much for foot speed. He does his best work within 10 feet of the net.

 

[BobTheSolarsystem]

In theory, landing Tavares should have made the Leafs cup favorites for years. Top end centre depth like that plus marner and Nylander on the wings should have made them a powerhouse, and it did during regular seasons

Their mistake (like the oilers) was not finding a quality goaltender to provide at lease slightly above average goaltending in the playoffs. Something like Fleury and Murray did for Pitsburgh, Osgood did for Detroit, or Crawford did for Chicago.

Doesn't have to be a Vezina winner, but grabbing goalies off the scrap pile won't cut it

Before helle was signed there was a pretty strong contingent saying all you need is an adin hill or a cheap alternative...

 

[Jetfaninflorida]

The problem I had with it was context. Mayers was a fighter in the NHL so he knows how the code worked and still works. The Kaprizov incident was dealt with when Middleton challenged Dillon to a fight and Dillion accepted. They had it out in a good fight and that is that. Also at the start of the following game Lowry accepted Maroon’s challenge to a fight off the opening faceoff too. Not sure if that was still for the Kaprizov hit but none the less the Jets answered the bell twice.

There is only one hockey analyst/personality who thought the Hartman intentional stick to the face wasn’t a cheap shot and egregious. Further evidence is that is Hartman’s 7th fine for goofy shit. He is clearly a douche bag doing douche bag things.

Do your f***ing homework Jamal and be prepared with all the information about the incident.

And then Jamal does what Hartman does after his cheap shots - he turtles. He doesn't show up on the K&R show to discuss his opinion further and in more context. Probably because someone realized that his opinion is indefensible so he is better to just shut his mouth - in this case - turtle.

 

[Jets 31]

If I'm Chevy I'm not doing anything until Connor comes back and hopefully everyone is healthy when he does, then see how good this team is. Vilardi and Connor have both been in the lineup at the same time for basically only 2 games. Adding Connor to this team right now is a pretty amazing thought.

 

[MardyBum]

Thank you Willy for signing that deal and taking away the attention of the 2 or 3 national media paying attention to the Jets. Everyone shower the Leafs in praise.

Jets turned from a fighter Jet into a stealth bomber

 

[surixon]

Those Leaf's. You'd think they would have learned by now that you can't go that top heavy and ice a winning team.

 

[Joe Hallenback]

 

[Buffdog]

Leafs management:

"So, how can we make our team even MORE top heavy?"

You'd think that teams would look at the teams at the top of the standings and realize that depth is an extremely important factor

 

[LucianoBorsato]

Dailyfaceoff has decided the Jets deserve to be *drumroll*....NUMBER 4!!! Still haven't quite convinced their basement bloggers, I guess.

NHL power rankings: Winnipeg Jets soar to the top of the standings

The Oilers also see a big jump, the Coyotes free fall, and the Panthers take over the top spot.

www.dailyfaceoff.com

 

[Maukkis]

There's an interesting 'butterfly effect' to having these generational talents on your team. They put upwards pressure on your internal cap, just as the Jets having near elite star players on good value contracts pushing values down.

I really wonder if it's worth it to have a McDavid, a Matthews or a Bedard on your team?

Sure, they're fun as hell to watch and they can win you games near single handedly, but they harm your cap so much that they could prevent you from building a legitimate perennial contender.

Exacerbating this is covid and how it flattened the cap.

Luckily for the Jets, our one superstar is at the goaltending position, which has 3 benefits:

Goalies, more than any other position, impact team results.
Goals tend to get paid less than other position players at an elite level
You can't really use a goalies salary as a comparison for other players (probably has a hand in the above)

It's soooo worth it, provided that your generational talent exhibits the mentality of a winner and a true leader. Crosby, MacKinnon, Barkov and co. are prime examples of this. Problems start to arise when you draft a masterful talent to be your cornerstone, but the guy happens to be a terrible leader. That can be enough to kill a team's contention window, as Toronto has shown us.

Cap is obviously an issue if you happen to overpay, but most superstars make other players better and thus offset their own high salaries. God knows how many 20-goal seasons Pittsburgh has gotten out of wingers by giving them Crosby to work with. I wouldn't be shocked if teams started adopting that approach more and more, as salaries continue to rise.

 

[jokesondee]

Dailyfaceoff has decided the Jets deserve to be *drumroll*....NUMBER 4!!! Still haven't quite convinced their basement bloggers, I guess.

NHL power rankings: Winnipeg Jets soar to the top of the standings

The Oilers also see a big jump, the Coyotes free fall, and the Panthers take over the top spot.

www.dailyfaceoff.com

I guess its an average ranking as Mike has us at 3, and Scott(whoever the hell that jagoff is), has us at 7 LMFAO.

 

[Slimy Sculpin]

Those Leaf's. You'd think they would have learned by now that you can't go that top heavy and ice a winning team.

First Dubas and then Treliving, it must be something in the Toronto water (too much fluorine?). Of course, Treliving totally messed up the Flames during his tenure there so maybe Shanahan drank too much, too.

 

[Channelcat]

First Dubas and then Treliving, it must be something in the Toronto water (too much fluorine?). Of course, Treliving totally messed up the Flames during his tenure there so maybe Shanahan drank too much, too.

Perhaps it's too tempting to just do the status quo, as opposed to making the hard calls. As an elite armchair GM with the benefit of hindsight I'd say they should have moved one of Marner or Nylander and tried to aquire a G or D or even a C. Maybe even gone all in on Helly and Scheif.

 

[buggs]

Perhaps it's too tempting to just do the status quo, as opposed to making the hard calls. As an elite armchair GM with the benefit of hindsight I'd say they should have moved one of Marner or Nylander and tried to aquire a G or D or even a C. Maybe even gone all in on Helly and Scheif.

They could probably have had three of the four high priced pieces and been better off. Matthews was a no-brainer (as would be McDavid and in future, Bedard). Getting a second #1 center has appeal to be certain (look how we drooled at the potential of Scheifele and Dubois?) but there was exactly zero home town discount in signing away the Islanders star. Paying two wingers, albeit very, very good wingers, more than most teams' #1 centers is foolhardy. You can't be that top heavy. Or you can't be that front end heavy might be the better way to say it. Balance is required. A good D corps can compensate for an average goalie - I think Vegas provides a recent example.

IIRC Sid and Gino both took a bit of a downgrade to salaries. Tampa players seem, if memory serves, to have taken a little less to stay together (and they had Vasilevsky and Hedman). Boston has managed their cap better. Toronto players haven't taken a penny off market value (the cynical side of me says Nylander won't maintain that value) for joy of staying in the capital of the hockey world.

Of course none of that matters as the bulk of the recent Cup champs have all been well over the cap anyway, but being favored markets, nothing would be done about that. Imagine if the Jets actually won the cup (a very long shot still) without being over the cap by using LTIR? Utterly blasphemous. Even further, imagine if the Jets managed to manipulate the cap like recent winners had - that would be the end of those shenanigans.

As you say, easy to do with hindsight and some luck. I think the Leafs are going to have to move on from Marner and it may be the best thing for them. He'd bring a truckload in a trade, likely a very good D man and a couple of other pieces. More importantly he'd provide cap relief allowing the Leafs to go get a good goaltender and maybe a middle pairing D man as well.

 

[SUX2BU]

If the Leafs go out early, I expect SN to find some deluded logic how if you eliminate all 15 other playoff teams, they were the best team and deserved the cup

They still would go out in the first round with that logic ...........

 

[10Ducky10]

He'd bring a truckload in a trade, likely a very good D man and a couple of other pieces. More importantly he'd provide cap relief allowing the Leafs to go get a good goaltender and maybe a middle pairing D man as well.

Which team has the cap space to pay him?

 

[Joe Hallenback]

There really isn't any reason those guys couldn't get 1 to 2 million less and leave them some cap to get more depth to actually try and win a cup