Around the NHL 10 - 2022/23

[Daximus]

I think I'm at risk of veering off on a tangent, but there is so much that is different between not only the game as its played today, but also how players are developed.

Kids are on the ice almost 12 months a year now and they certainly have developed into better athletes and skaters as a whole. However, from an early age, structure and systems start to play a big role at the upper levels.

Kids back then (myself included) put their hockey stuff away in april and picked up a soccer ball or baseball bat. However, we all played countless hours of street hockey and shinny where there was zero structure - you had to learn to play creatively off the people around you. I really think that it was that creativity that brought a lot of the offense we saw back then into being.

A few summers ago a group of guys I sake with were short a goalie and a few bodies. I agreed to play goal (even though it had been a while) and then I learn that one of the guys was bringing out his kid and some of his friends (15 and 16 year olds) - all guys that had been drafted into the W, and one was a VERY high pick. I thought "great, I'm gonna get lit up by a bunch of kids".

Turns out, none of them could figure out how to play with the older guys, most of whom had played a high level of hockey themselves. They wanted to dump and chase and cycle down low in shinny. I think maybe one kid put one past me. Take away their systems and they were lost

I'm not going to doubt your ability. But I will call into question how good those 15/16 year olds were haha

A few of my buddies got drafted into the Dub at that age. Not a single one played a minute of professional hockey. Most of them were barely good enough to stay in the Dub. I'd like to see your shinny team go up against a 15 year old Bedard or Dylan Guenther or Matt Savoie.

Then I'd be impressed.

 

[Buffdog]

I'm not going to doubt your ability. But I will call into question how good those 15/16 year olds were haha

A few of my buddies got drafted into the Dub at that age. Not a single one played a minute of professional hockey. Most of them were barely good enough to stay in the Dub. I'd like to see your shinny team go up against a 15 year old Bedard or Dylan Guenther or Matt Savoie.

Then I'd be impressed.

Oh it's OK to doubt my ability. I do it all the time lol. If I was good enough to stop a kid like Bedard in my late 40s, I probably would have been in the show in my 20s.

One of the kids was top 5 bantam draft and turned into a 2nd round NHL pick. To be clear, I wasn't surprised at their skill levels... just their inability to play pick up hockey.

The comparison I'd use would be a musician that can play a bunch of well known songs really really well but can't sit down and jam off the cuff with other talented musicians because all he can do is play songs

 

[Adam da bomb]

Oh it's OK to doubt my ability. I do it all the time lol. If I was good enough to stop a kid like Bedard in my late 40s, I probably would have been in the show in my 20s.

One of the kids was top 5 bantam draft and turned into a 2nd round NHL pick. To be clear, I wasn't surprised at their skill levels... just their inability to play pick up hockey.

The comparison I'd use would be a musician that can play a bunch of well known songs really really well but can't sit down and jam off the cuff with other talented musicians because all he can do is play songs

Or a great cover artist who can’t play an original?

 

[Daximus]

Oh it's OK to doubt my ability. I do it all the time lol. If I was good enough to stop a kid like Bedard in my late 40s, I probably would have been in the show in my 20s.

One of the kids was top 5 bantam draft and turned into a 2nd round NHL pick. To be clear, I wasn't surprised at their skill levels... just their inability to play pick up hockey.

The comparison I'd use would be a musician that can play a bunch of well known songs really really well but can't sit down and jam off the cuff with other talented musicians because all he can do is play songs

That makes sense. I could see a lot of kids nowadays focusing less on creativity and more on being a value role player. Finding your niche in this league is harder than ever so you need to learn to become useful in situations outside of just being a magician.

But I think players like Zegras, Makar, Marner and Kane fly heavily in the face of anti-creativity. There's just a lot less room out there to be creative and if it doesn't pay off you likely pay for it going back the other way.

 

[DeepFrickinValue]

Panthers Should Cut Their Losses with Head Coach Paul Maurice

his press conferences are about to get extra verbose... expect lundell to get traded for some sand

Pretty stinging article.

 

[Jetabre]

Panthers Should Cut Their Losses with Head Coach Paul Maurice

his press conferences are about to get extra verbose... expect lundell to get traded for some sand

"While Andrew Brunette did a fantastic job with the team, given the circumstances that arose, his inability to adjust in the postseason ultimately cost him a second chance in South Florida."

So they brought in Maurice to fix this...?

 

[CorgisPer60]

"While Andrew Brunette did a fantastic job with the team, given the circumstances that arose, his inability to adjust in the postseason ultimately cost him a second chance in South Florida."

So they brought in Maurice to fix this...?

That THN article compares last season to this season, which is within their right to do so. They neglect to mention just how many Florida players had career seasons under Brunette/Quenneville, and a regression was in order. I don't think they expected to underperform to this degree, but being out of a wildcard spot to this degree was also not in the cards.

 

[10Ducky10]

The Devils are starting to falter...

They’ve lost 5 straight (0-4-1) and have a brutal 6 game stretch upcoming, facing the Canes and Bruins twice each, along with the Panthers and Penguins.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

But the NHL has changed a lot since Richard’s day since Europeans got involved so better level of competition. Harder to score on better goalies get past better defense.

This is an unfinishable, pointless argument. It has already gone on since the very first game of the very first sport played with rocks in a cave.

The world has changed. It will continue to change. The best we can ever hope for is that chart of era adjusted stats that was posted a few pages back in this thread. I'm sure it is not perfect and we could argue forever about how accurate it actually is.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I watched the 3rd period of that game and the Blues sure capitalized on poor defensive play from the Flames. They made a good roster change putting Schenn between Tarasenko and Bushnevich, which allowed them to put Thomas and Kyrou back together and have a 3rd line with O'Reilly and Saad. That's a legitimate 3 line team, with a good top 4 defense, but terrible goaltending (Greiss was good enough last night).

I've been keeping an eye on the standings, and Minnesota is starting to rise to the top 3 in the Central, getting healthier, Colorado has to have an eye now on who is behind them. Blues played the Avs recently, and lost a 2-1 lead in the final 3 seconds, to lose in OT, but on paper the team without goaltending might be better than the team without any forward depth. I wonder if that pushes a panic button for Sakic where he might need to make a move to stay ahead in the WC race. For the Blues they still have 2 big impending UFAs in Tarasenko and O'Reilly and if they are not able to get into a safe WC spot, I wonder if they trade those guys, like they did with Stastny when they were still in the race, but on the edge of missing out.

StL certainly should trade those UFAs. Whether they will or not remains to be seen. Even if they get a WC spot, I don't see them going anywhere. They need a refresh. Trading those 2 could get it for them.

Avs should be first in line for Horvat. We'll see.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

I don't think there was just suddenly a massive explosion of guys that could put the puck in the net better than anyone.

What I find interesting watching games from then and now is the goaltending talent and the way they approached the shots. Shots that would have been routine saves for goaltenders in today's game would go in the net rather easily in that era. We absolutely roast our goalies for not making those kinds of saves.

Size of goalies
Size of equipment
Weight of equipment
Massive change in total. Need bigger nets to compensate. Or how about if it hits pipe it is a goal?

 

[JetsFan815]

I watched the 3rd period of that game and the Blues sure capitalized on poor defensive play from the Flames. They made a good roster change putting Schenn between Tarasenko and Bushnevich, which allowed them to put Thomas and Kyrou back together and have a 3rd line with O'Reilly and Saad. That's a legitimate 3 line team, with a good top 4 defense, but terrible goaltending (Greiss was good enough last night).

I've been keeping an eye on the standings, and Minnesota is starting to rise to the top 3 in the Central, getting healthier, Colorado has to have an eye now on who is behind them. Blues played the Avs recently, and lost a 2-1 lead in the final 3 seconds, to lose in OT, but on paper the team without goaltending might be better than the team without any forward depth. I wonder if that pushes a panic button for Sakic where he might need to make a move to stay ahead in the WC race. For the Blues they still have 2 big impending UFAs in Tarasenko and O'Reilly and if they are not able to get into a safe WC spot, I wonder if they trade those guys, like they did with Stastny when they were still in the race, but on the edge of missing out.

I am hoping St Louis decides to blow it up completely and even trade Buchnevich (because that's the guy I want in a Jets jersey post deadline ).

 

[Daximus]

Size of goalies
Size of equipment
Weight of equipment
Massive change in total. Need bigger nets to compensate. Or how about if it hits pipe it is a goal?

Yeah those are just a number of changes to goalies over the years, The average goalie is a mountain now, butterfly is basically mandatory.

 

[Adam da bomb]

This is an unfinishable, pointless argument. It has already gone on since the very first game of the very first sport played with rocks in a cave.

The world has changed. It will continue to change. The best we can ever hope for is that chart of era adjusted stats that was posted a few pages back in this thread. I'm sure it is not perfect and we could argue forever about how accurate it actually is.

That’s why I only like comparing players in their Era.

 

[Atoyot]

Man Minnesota is having an easy stretch right now. This is the 3rd game in a row that they're playing a non playoff team that's on a back to back while not having played any themselves in the same stretch, next game is the same story, Anaheim on a back to back after Minnesota gets a few days off.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

That’s why I only like comparing players in their Era.

All else being equal, the best players from one era would usually be the best players in another.

I think a good indicator of elite excellence is looking at the margin between those top players and other top players of the same era, like Gretzky not just winning the scoring title, but doing it ~65 pts over the guy who was 2nd. Even that is not perfect though. Gretzky was more playmaker than goal scorer and he played with some great finishers to get that big margin.

There are some players that really stood out in their times though. Besides Gretzky, Lemieux was way better than anyone else when he was at his peak. The same goes for Orr. No one was close. Those 2 are down on the all-time records only because of their shortened careers.

Ovi stands out compared to his peers, but as a finisher, not as an all around player. Though he is no slouch there either, just not standing out like those others I named.

 

[Adam da bomb]

All else being equal, the best players from one era would usually be the best players in another.

I think a good indicator of elite excellence is looking at the margin between those top players and other top players of the same era, like Gretzky not just winning the scoring title, but doing it ~65 pts over the guy who was 2nd. Even that is not perfect though. Gretzky was more playmaker than goal scorer and he played with some great finishers to get that big margin.

There are some players that really stood out in their times though. Besides Gretzky, Lemieux was way better than anyone else when he was at his peak. The same goes for Orr. No one was close. Those 2 are down on the all-time records only because of their shortened careers.

Ovi stands out compared to his peers, but as a finisher, not as an all around player. Though he is no slouch there either, just not standing out like those others I named.

But even that is flawed as if you think there is more parity in one era than another and this era has the most parity than yeah Ovi is not going to stand out as much compared to his peers. Which is a good thing, the fact that you can have the whole Crosby Ovi rivalry.
Gretz might still outscore everyone else and be the best player, but I doubt it's by 65.

 

[DeepFrickinValue]

All else being equal, the best players from one era would usually be the best players in another.

I think a good indicator of elite excellence is looking at the margin between those top players and other top players of the same era, like Gretzky not just winning the scoring title, but doing it ~65 pts over the guy who was 2nd. Even that is not perfect though. Gretzky was more playmaker than goal scorer and he played with some great finishers to get that big margin.

There are some players that really stood out in their times though. Besides Gretzky, Lemieux was way better than anyone else when he was at his peak. The same goes for Orr. No one was close. Those 2 are down on the all-time records only because of their shortened careers.

Ovi stands out compared to his peers, but as a finisher, not as an all around player. Though he is no slouch there either, just not standing out like those others I named.

The physical aspect of Ovis game is underestimated. Fun player when he’s playing with a chip on hid shoulder.

 

[DRW204]

The physical aspect of Ovis game is underestimated. Fun player when he’s playing with a chip on hid shoulder.

Saw this

 

[SUX2BU]

 

[WolfHouse]

His game should start falling apart right about now

 

[kanadalainen]

 

[WaveRaven]

Ahhhh poor baby. Keep your #$%^ing head up I thought your a professional. You'd think he knows that. All this whining about big hits is ridiculous.

 

[DRW204]

Lol oof

 

[SUX2BU]

Jake's response ......

Lol oof

Pretty big talk from a guy with 9 fingers, what a p***y ........