Around the NHL 10 - 2022/23

[voyageur]

95 more.

95 more goals and he is bar-none the greatest goalscorer to ever live. He's already there in my books.

800 goals over 18 seasons.

That's an average of 50 goals every season of his career. Absolutely remarkable.

I have a hard time with this one. I ask how many fewer goals would Ovie have scored with a wooden Titan or Hespeler? Hundreds easily, because there was no whip on them, and they broke pretty damn easily as any rec player could testify. That said Gretzky played in an era where there were some pretty questionable goalies (Greg Millen, any of the Jets goalies of the 80s) and goalies were not as big or well equipped. I still see the Great One as the greatest of all time. I hope his record stands. Ovie is a legend in his own right, but I don't like the way he's going about getting records, cherry picking empty nets is pretty damn embarassing.

 

[Daximus]

I have a hard time with this one. I ask how many fewer goals would Ovie have scored with a wooden Titan or Hespeler? Hundreds easily, because there was no whip on them, and they broke pretty damn easily as any rec player could testify. That said Gretzky played in an era where there were some pretty questionable goalies (Greg Millen, any of the Jets goalies of the 80s) and goalies were not as big or well equipped. I still see the Great One as the greatest of all time. I hope his record stands. Ovie is a legend in his own right, but I don't like the way he's going about getting records, cherry picking empty nets is pretty damn embarassing.

Gretzky had 56 empty net goals to Ovis 53, Lemieux had 33 in 915 games.

No one holds that against any of them.

I hope all of Wayne records eventually fall.

Hockey is the only sport on the planet where there is just a wall in terms of legacy. It's the only sport in the world where getting into the upper echelon is gate kept by the fact that the game is so vastly different across eras. Scoring changes wildly from decade to decade and your just f***ed if you're born in the wrong one.

I hope every record falls because the sport is better for it.

 

[voyageur]

Gretzky had 56 empty net goals to Ovis 53, Lemieux had 33 in 915 games.

No one holds that against any of them.

I hope all of Wayne records eventually fall.

Hockey is the only sport on the planet where there is just a wall in terms of legacy. It's the only sport in the world where getting into the upper echelon is gate kept by the fact that the game is so vastly different across eras. Scoring changes wildly from decade to decade and your just f***ed if you're born in the wrong one.

I hope every record falls because the sport is better for it.

I just mean Gretzky had eclipsed Howe's goal scoring record 6 years prior to his retirement, and he finished his career in the hardest scoring era of hockey other than maybe Original Six years, with the trap and oversized goalie equipment the norm. He didn't have to cherry pick his way to a record. He was already the best long before he retired. Ovechkin seems to be playing for the record only, and as long as a coach feeds him late minutes to cherry pick records, he's good, but he's probably not a good enough player on his own talent to break that record.

No one will ever touch Gretzky's point records, that's a guarantee. The days of 200 pt players is long gone. I hope some of the old records stands, but a hockey fan has to respect every era of the game, and its particular intracacies, like Bobby Orr's +/- record comes at a time when expansion from 6 to 18 teams watered down the league, then you have an era of hockey players who were 50 goal scorers who smoked in the dressing room between periods, it's hard to compare all the eras of hockey

 

[Daximus]

I just mean Gretzky had eclipsed Howe's goal scoring record 6 years prior to his retirement, and he finished his career in the hardest scoring era of hockey other than maybe Original Six years, with the trap and oversized goalie equipment the norm. He didn't have to cherry pick his way to a record. He was already the best long before he retired. Ovechkin seems to be playing for the record only, and as long as a coach feeds him late minutes to cherry pick records, he's good, but he's probably not a good enough player on his own talent to break that record.

No one will ever touch Gretzky's point records, that's a guarantee. The days of 200 pt players is long gone. I hope some of the old records stands, but a hockey fan has to respect every era of the game, and its particular intracacies, like Bobby Orr's +/- record comes at a time when expansion from 6 to 18 teams watered down the league, then you have an era of hockey players who were 50 goal scorers who smoked in the dressing room between periods, it's hard to compare all the eras of hockey

He also started his career in the highest scoring era of all time so it evens out IMO. Back in those days there were as many 50 goal scorers as 30 goal scorers in the scoring downturn of Ovi's era.

Not many players could be doing what Ovi is doing at 37 even if they wanted to. Howe is basically the only one that could.

 

[surixon]

He also started his career in the highest scoring era of all time so it evens out IMO. Back in those days there were as many 50 goal scorers as 30 goal scorers in the scoring downturn of Ovi's era.

Not many players could be doing what Ovi is doing at 37 even if they wanted to. Howe is basically the only one that could.

I like Ovie but he's been a complete shell of what he was in his prime. He now floats around conserving energy and plays every minute of every pp and pretty much every minute of EN time. The team is doing nothing but trying to get him the record now.

If that is there prerogative then so be it. But he is a pretty poor player now who is only good at one dimension and a good amount of thatvis because his team is force feeding it. I kind of agree with @voyageur how they are going about it is pretty untastful imo. In the end it should sti be about winning as a team not trying to get someone a record.

 

[Gm0ney]

JFresh on Twitter charted the era-adjusted points for Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, McDavid, Ovi and Jagr...

 

[Daximus]

I like Ovie but he's been a complete shell of what he was in his prime. He now floats around conserving energy and plays every minute of every pp and pretty much every minute of EN time. The team is doing nothing but trying to get him the record now.

If that is there prerogative then so be it. But he is a pretty poor player now who is only good at one dimension and a good amount of thatvis because his team is force feeding it. I kind of agree with @voyageur how they are going about it is pretty untastful imo. In the end it should sti be about winning as a team not trying to get someone a record.

They sure looked pretty good shutting us out. Would hate to see what they would have done if they weren't just playing to get Ovi that empty net goal at the end.

 

[surixon]

They sure looked pretty good shutting us out. Would hate to see what they would have done if they weren't just playing to get Ovi that empty net goal at the end.

Well we didn't give them much of a fight that game did we?

I'm talking games I've watched where he stayed on the ice for over 4 straight pp minutes while his linemates had changed long before the pp had ended bit he's still out there. You can't tell me he's still the best person to have out there 4 minutes into a shift?

 

[Daximus]

Well we didn't give them much of a fight that game did we?

I'm talking games I've watched where he stayed on the ice for over 4 straight pp minutes while his linemates had changed long before the pp had ended bit he's still out there. You can't tell me he's still the best person to have out there 4 minutes into a shift?

He used to do that during the Championship run year as well.

Ovi has always played the entire PP because his shot is that money. He's been doing the same thing for nearly a decade and no one can stop it, why would they suddenly stop doing it now?

Literally nothing has changed in Washingtons usage of Ovi. He's played just as many minutes now as he did at 27 years old. Just as much as he did during their championship year.

Anyone claiming they just started doing this because he's chasing the record clearly hasn't been paying attention for the last 10+ years.

 

[Buffdog]

Do people actually think there is an official NHL conspiracy against us and the at they've openly told officials to make calls against small market teams?

And I seem to remember being told I was a conspiracy theorist around here during the pandemic lol.

 

[surixon]

He used to do that during the Championship run year as well.

Ovi has always played the entire PP because his shot is that money. He's been doing the same thing for nearly a decade and no one can stop it, why would they suddenly stop doing it now?

Literally nothing has changed in Washingtons usage of Ovi. He's played just as many minutes now as he did at 27 years old. Just as much as he did during their championship year.

Anyone claiming they just started doing this because he's chasing the record clearly hasn't been paying attention for the last 10+ years.

I mean he used to be money on it. Now despite playing a minute more per game then anyone else in the league and almost 50 minutes more then the next highest player he can't even crack the top 20 in league pp scoring. Perhaps his usage is no longer deserved. What he did 6 to 10 years ago when he was lethal there has no basis on him being given gravy minutes that he no longer really deserves.

 

[Daximus]

I mean he used to be money on it. Now despite playing a minute more per game then anyone else in the league and almost 50 minutes more then the next highest player he can't even crack the top 20 in league pp scoring. Perhaps his usage is no longer deserved. What he did 6 to 10 years ago when he was lethal there has no basis on him being given gravy minutes that he no longer really deserves.

What do you mean he's tied for 6th in PP goals?

 

[bustamente]

Hey kid don't be a fool and bet against me breaking Gretzky's goal scoring record, I'm the great 8

 

[RabidOne]

He also started his career in the highest scoring era of all time so it evens out IMO. Back in those days there were as many 50 goal scorers as 30 goal scorers in the scoring downturn of Ovi's era.

Not many players could be doing what Ovi is doing at 37 even if they wanted to. Howe is basically the only one that could.

You mean like that Hull guy scoring 46 and a 117 point season at 38 years old in the WHA?

 

[Daximus]

You mean like that Hull guy scoring 46 and a 117 point season at 38 years old in the WHA?

WHA scoring was pretty nutty though.

A 29 year old Andy Lacroix scored 147. The same Andy Lacroix that could never break past the 60 point barrier during the highest scoring era of the NHL. 37 year old Ovechkin would have lit that league on fire.

That being said there is no doubt that had Hull stayed in the NHL he would have been an even more prolific scorer. Only way we are ever going to be able to compare them at older ages is if Ovi sticks around until 41. But I'm guessing he will end up retiring the moment he passes Gretz.

 

[kanadalainen]

JFresh on Twitter charted the era-adjusted points for Gretzky, Lemieux, Crosby, McDavid, Ovi and Jagr...

Interesting treatment, thanks for posting!

 

[voyageur]

He also started his career in the highest scoring era of all time so it evens out IMO. Back in those days there were as many 50 goal scorers as 30 goal scorers in the scoring downturn of Ovi's era.

Not many players could be doing what Ovi is doing at 37 even if they wanted to. Howe is basically the only one that could.

Teemu?

 

[Eyeseeing]

Do people actually think there is an official NHL conspiracy against us and the at they've openly told officials to make calls against small market teams?

And I seem to remember being told I was a conspiracy theorist around here during the pandemic lol.

 

[Daximus]

Teemu?

Selanne had an injury at 37 and just never returned to his peak form after that. But Selanne is pretty close. He was still a very useful player much like Jagr in older age but not really capable of being a top goal scorer in the league anymore at that age.

Ovi is top 5 in goal scoring right now at age 37, Dude is far from done. That alone is a pretty insane thing to think about.

 

[surixon]

What do you mean he's tied for 6th in PP goals?

Yeah you give a player almost an hour more pp time then the next closest player they will put up more goals.

 

[Daximus]

Yeah you give a player almost an hour more pp time then the next closest player they will put up more goals.

I don't think that giving the greatest PP scorer of all time more PP time than anyone is a bad idea. Dude's still getting it done. Especially when he generally plays around 2 minutes less ES time than other top players.

Their usage of Ovy is pretty standard stuff for an elite PP scorer. He's a weapon, might as well use him.

Over a decade of blasting one timers from the circle and still no goalie or player in the league can stop him.

People really hate that Ovi is going to beat Gretz record hey?

 

[Buffdog]

Selanne had an injury at 37 and just never returned to his peak form after that. But Selanne is pretty close. He was still a very useful player much like Jagr in older age but not really capable of being a top goal scorer in the league anymore at that age.

Ovi is top 5 in goal scoring right now at age 37, Dude is far from done. That alone is a pretty insane thing to think about.

The other thing that's fascinating is that teemu, jagr and chelios basically became "professional recoverers"... I remember hearing about teemu's sauna and massage routines and chelios and jagr were always in peak physical condition.

I get the impression that ovi isn't quite as deliberate about his physical conditioning regiment (not to say he isn't fit). Of course that could eventually bite him in the ass

 

[surixon]

I don't think that giving the greatest PP scorer of all time more PP time than anyone is a bad idea. Dude's still getting it done. Especially when he generally plays around 2 minutes less ES time than other top players.

Their usage of Ovy is pretty standard stuff for an elite PP scorer. He's a weapon, might as well use him.

Over a decade of blasting one timers from the circle and still no goalie or player in the league can stop him.

People really hate that Ovi is going to beat Gretz record hey?

I don't really care about that. I care how he's playing through the end of his career. I don't really count Gretzky the greatest goal scorer anyhow, I think Bossey and Lemieux where better than him. Unfortunately both had injury plagued careers.

 

[ThinIce61]

Well we didn't give them much of a fight that game did we?

I'm talking games I've watched where he stayed on the ice for over 4 straight pp minutes while his linemates had changed long before the pp had ended bit he's still out there. You can't tell me he's still the best person to have out there 4 minutes into a shift?

The difference with Ovie to his teammates and other players in the league is he really doesn't log alot of mileage on the ice. He's very often standing completely still in one spot on the ice waiting for the puck to come to him while the players are battling for the puck along the wall or in the corners.

 

[Daximus]

The other thing that's fascinating is that teemu, jagr and chelios basically became "professional recoverers"... I remember hearing about teemu's sauna and massage routines and chelios and jagr were always in peak physical condition.

I get the impression that ovi isn't quite as deliberate about his physical conditioning regiment (not to say he isn't fit). Of course that could eventually bite him in the ass

Yeah there's plenty of anecdotes about Jagr taking off practices and needing teammates to tie his skates. Selanne is obviously still in pretty good condition as he was by far the best player on the ice in the alumni game.

I don't really care about that. I care how he's playing through the end of his career. I don't really count Gretzky the greatest goal scorer anyhow, I think Bossey and Lemieux where better than him. Unfortunately both had injury plagued careers.

Most players at the end of their careers can barely register 20 goals let alone 50. The fact that Ovi can do it is a testament to how good of a goalscorer he actually is. The guy was arguably the most electric player on the ice when he entered the league. He was clocked as being nearly as fast as McDavid with the puck and has a highlight real of some of the greatest goals ever scored. When his age and the league caught up to him he revolutionized his game to compensate and discovered that not a soul on this planet could stop his one timer from the hash marks or circle all while still being able to score at even strength. Towards the end of his career they weren't all pretty but they all counted.

As MacLean generally quips, "They don't ask how, they ask how many." So far Ovi can say at least 800.

I agree that Bossy and Lemieux were generally better scorers but longevity always plays a factor.

The difference with Ovie to his teammates and other players in the league is he really doesn't log alot of mileage on the ice. He's very often standing completely still in one spot on the ice waiting for the puck to come to him while the players are battling for the puck along the wall or in the corners.

Yeah he basically does what Laine tried to do but is a lot more effective at it.