Around the NHL 10 - 2022/23

[DRW204]

Fair point on Roslovic but he hasn't exactly turned into a better center then what we had at the time in the top 6. Granted as a 3C he likely would have performed well in a more modern setup.

agreed.

to me roslovic's game never fit at C. he'll score points b/c he has skill and is a good play maker and is a good skater, but as far as 200 ft game, defensively, and playing the middle of the ice i never saw at his strengths. although he had good-play driving traits, i don't think he was ever a good play-driver of a line which is something that imo a C would normally take on. i found him to be more of a passenger of a line, here at least.
whenever that "Roslovic 2C?" thread came up id smirk a bit. just b/c he had a solid showing at wing doesn't really sway me at least if he will be fit to center a line.

maybe as a 3C though as you mentioned similar to how kerfoot has been with toronto in previous years. and then fill in the top-6 sparingly. but lowry was fine in 17-18 (roslo's rookie year), so i understand why they went w/ lowry again in 18-19, maybe they should've been a bit more open to giving roslo a 3c opportunity that year as lowry's play was not as good .

at the time though we had scheifele and little.... little was a 40 pt c but still better than roslovic. roslovic could've gotten an opportunity in 19-20 when wheeler filled in at c, but wheeler was fine and probably better there than roslovic. roslovic did get top-6 opportunities here (again 19-20 w/ wheeler, ehlers & 18-19 w/ little, laine) but the production never took off. i will says a 30ish pt bottom-6 player which was roughly his pace his first two years would still be a welcome addition. but it is what it is. our RW through his first 3 years were wheeler and laine, so no permanent spot for top-6 rw either.

 

[DeepFrickinValue]

 

[DRW204]

devils looking good to start the year. bratt is going to cost a pretty penny if he keeps this up. still a bit wary on their goaltending though. their "analytics darling" dmen (hamilton, siegenthaler, marino, graves) have seem to be performing quite well too.

 

[Jet]

The point was to let the player find out whether they can play the NHL game or not. Create an opportunity for them. Don't bury them. It was never just about losing Kovacevic, but there not being an obvious path forward for a developing NHL prospect to supplant the incumbents. The main reason Stanley made the team was because he lost waiver exemption status and they didn't want to risk losing him through waivers. He stayed in the AHL until then. It's purely a numbers game. If you're waiver exempt, you go down.

The Jets were gifted with a very stable defense corps when they relocated from Atlanta. They never had to look far and wide for defensemen. Now we're seeing the fallout from that.

I think it's a fine line. Where do you make the decision that a player is not NHL ready? Kovi got some looks and he got TC as well where it looks as if the coaching staff saw enough that they waived him.

If I walked onto the Jets TC and was cut, would people whine that I wasn't given a chance to show what I could do? I know that is a ridiculously extreme example, but it's meant to make a point. Looking at the way Kovacevik has returned to earth (and Comrie for that matter), it seems like the experts may, just MAY have made the right decisions.

I know this is a wee bit OT but with Comrie specifically, I think many of us wondered if his solid run of 15 games last year was a bit of smoke and mirrors. Sure, he made some good saves and had a couple of really nice performances, but I also remember a lot of luck for him in some of those games. I think his size and mobility was exposed to a certain extent, and imo those are the things that made him a suitcase tweener up until last year, and it's whats made him today pretty much exactly what he always has been, a slightly below average backup.

 

[Weezeric]

He could have centred a scoring 3rd line. Maybe - but there was no path for him here. I don't see any difference in the paths for Dmen and F other than there being twice as many F positions on the team.

Since winning that 2OA lottery pick in '16 it has appeared to me like Chevy took that as the end of his team/roster building. From there it was just up to the coach and Chevy's remaining job was to fill in a few spots at the bottom of the depth chart. Call it maintenance. Just seems like the mindset he fell into. Might have snapped out of it now, we'll see.

Roslovic is getting his chance with the Blue Jackets. They are in last place in the NHL and Lowry is out performing him in every way….

 

[Jet]

Roslovic is getting his chance with the Blue Jackets. They are in last place in the NHL and Lowry is out performing him in every way….

Roslovic is pretty much as run of the mill as you can get. I'd pick at least 9 Jets forwards over him right now.

 

[CorgisPer60]

Roslovic wanted his opportunity, and he wanted to play at home. He's getting both of them and languishing as you expect. I don't miss him in the slightest.

 

[voyageur]

The point was to let the player find out whether they can play the NHL game or not. Create an opportunity for them. Don't bury them. It was never just about losing Kovacevic, but there not being an obvious path forward for a developing NHL prospect to supplant the incumbents. The main reason Stanley made the team was because he lost waiver exemption status and they didn't want to risk losing him through waivers. He stayed in the AHL until then. It's purely a numbers game. If you're waiver exempt, you go down.

The Jets were gifted with a very stable defense corps when they relocated from Atlanta. They never had to look far and wide for defensemen. Now we're seeing the fallout from that.

Stanley was pegged for Ben Chiarot's spot on a timeline if anyone remembers this correctly. The Jets had started Stanley with Buff in his 1st preseason as a pro. Suddenly Buff is gone, and he's playing in the minors with the likes of Sami Niku, who simply couldn't defend, and it's looking gloomy for the big man. He made his surge in year 3 of his ELC, when everyone had him written off. Won the job from Beaulieu. Since then it's been a competition with Samberg, and to be honest it's been a closer race than many would like to admit, statistically, but because of skating Stanley is often the whipping boy.

When the Jets got their team from Atlanta they had their top 6. Oduya didn't make it to the end of year 1. Hainsey didn't seem to care, and wanted out. Bogosian was disappointing throughout his career as a Jet, making bonehead plays. Buff looked bad overweight, and was often a target of boo birds if anyone remembers, wasn't until Paul Maurice arrived that he got the message. Mark Stuart, well we know analytic people hated him. So that leaves Toby who was not as good as he was in Atlanta at the end of his career but good enough to be in our top 3 consistently. For depth Postma was grossly overrated. Chiarot wasn't even on anyone's radar, but worked hard to become a consistent NHLer by what year 5 of the Jets? Melchiori was a slow moving version of Chiarot, an AHLer at best. That's the stable we got...I'd say the Jets have done better, especially since 2016, of drafting d-men that Atlanta ever did. First two 1st round picks were studs, so that's more than Don Waddell accomplished. Had Bogosian started in the minors probably would have been a better player.

 

[Jet]

Stanley was pegged for Ben Chiarot's spot on a timeline if anyone remembers this correctly. The Jets had started Stanley with Buff in his 1st preseason as a pro. Suddenly Buff is gone, and he's playing in the minors with the likes of Sami Niku, who simply couldn't defend, and it's looking gloomy for the big man. He made his surge in year 3 of his ELC, when everyone had him written off. Won the job from Beaulieu. Since then it's been a competition with Samberg, and to be honest it's been a closer race than many would like to admit, statistically, but because of skating Stanley is often the whipping boy.

When the Jets got their team from Atlanta they had their top 6. Oduya didn't make it to the end of year 1. Hainsey didn't seem to care, and wanted out. Bogosian was disappointing throughout his career as a Jet, making bonehead plays. Buff looked bad overweight, and was often a target of boo birds if anyone remembers, wasn't until Paul Maurice arrived that he got the message. Mark Stuart, well we know analytic people hated him. So that leaves Toby who was not as good as he was in Atlanta at the end of his career but good enough to be in our top 3 consistently. For depth Postma was grossly overrated. Chiarot wasn't even on anyone's radar, but worked hard to become a consistent NHLer by what year 5 of the Jets? Melchiori was a slow moving version of Chiarot, an AHLer at best. That's the stable we got...I'd say the Jets have done better, especially since 2016, of drafting d-men that Atlanta ever did. First two 1st round picks were studs, so that's more than Don Waddell accomplished. Had Bogosian started in the minors probably would have been a better player.

It's so refreshing to see someone lay it out as is. It's funny how our memory fails us at times. Our D corps had a ton of issues when we inherited it from Atlanta. We managed to get Byfuglien playing a dominant game, and got Morrissey and Trouba established. That is the point where I think our D was at it's peak.

Even though we were on the high of getting a team, people did not like Stu, Hainsey, Johnny "Free Pizza" Oduya, or even Buff (I was one of his biggest critics). Bogo was much maligned, I stuck up for him (probably because I had a crush on him lmao).

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Roslovic is getting his chance with the Blue Jackets. They are in last place in the NHL and Lowry is out performing him in every way….

Yes. But right now CBJ are using him above his skill level and you are looking at a small sample. He is not the reason they are in last place. Look first at their goaltending. Then the whole team is having trouble scoring. I guess Roslo is part of that.

Last year Lowry scored at about .25 ppg, Roslo was >.5 ppg. That is about the rate you want from a scoring 3C, actually a little more than you probably expect from there.

 

[Weezeric]

Yes. But right now CBJ are using him above his skill level and you are looking at a small sample. He is not the reason they are in last place. Look first at their goaltending. Then the whole team is having trouble scoring. I guess Roslo is part of that.

Last year Lowry scored at about .25 ppg, Roslo was >.5 ppg. That is about the rate you want from a scoring 3C, actually a little more than you probably expect from there.

If you play players higher in the lineup than their skill level, they’re still going to put up points. Do you think Lowry could score 40 if he played between Connor and Ehlers all year?

The fact is that there are zero players that the Jets didn’t give opportunity to that have thrived in major roles on successful NHL teams.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Which organizations? Vegas #1 was gifted Theodore, signed Pietrangelo. Dallas #2, drafted Heiskanen (top 5 pick), pretty much everyone else on their defense is a trade or free agent acquistion. Edmonton doesn't have a great defense by any means. Calgary got lucky getting Hamilton from Boston, then turning him and Ferland into Hanifin and Lindholm. Colorado? Two top 5 draft picks at d, and the Duchene trade helped them out, and Girard still sucks in my opinion, compared to what we have. St. Louis only drafted Parayko out of their top 4. Minnesota got a good haul dumping Zucker, Spurgeon any team could have had. Is Dumba better than Morrissey? Probably not.

Who am I missing that we are competing with?

Jets did well with Morrissey, turned Trouba into Pionk and Heinola, Samberg was a good draft pick. Stanley is going to be a solid #5/6 for awhile. What the Jets did wrong is they only drafted quality LD for 3 years in a row, and now they all are mature, and the team needs some RD. Those aren't easy to find (we miss you Buff) and they go for inflated prices, so teach your kids how to shoot right and play defense, folks.

None of which changes the fact that Jets D corps is light at the top, especially on the right side. They have drafted mostly B level prospects, several of which are coming ready at the same time but none of which project as top pair. We are not even certain of top 4 projections.

You forgot Dahlstrom too, who got some top 4 minutes. In a season where Buff suddenly retired, and Morrissey couldn't kill penalties because of injuries, with no De Melo until the deadline, an oft injured Tucker Poolman, Kulikov out at times, Samberg choosing to play a 3rd year in college, the options were play an 18 year old Ville Heinola, or play a shitty Sami Niku, who also couldn't stay healthy, or play the plugs, who plugged well enough that the Jets were in a playoff position points wise, when Covid hit. Revisionism here on HF is somewhat inaccurate.

Speaking of revisionism, Jets were not in a PO position when Covid hit.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

Hindsight can be fun. Given how things have turned out, we would have drafted James McAvoy with the number 2 pick and our problems of finding a #1 defenseman would be solved.

Yes, but he didn't go until 14 as it was.
And what would we have done for a 2C these last 5 years? Roslovic? Wheeler?
We would probably be pushing Perfetti into that spot now. Maybe before he is ready.

It worked out that we got what we really needed when we traded Laine, a 2C. The only problem there is getting him signed long term.

We still need a 1RD though. I don't see any obvious solution, even if we could have our pick of the Dmen in the '23 draft.

 

[Mortimer Snerd]

They did well in the deal all things considered, but post deal criticisms are to be had. Pionk is being paid like a top pairing defenseman for decidedly not top pairing production. He and Schmidt are basically the same player. The Jets have way too much money tied up on the back end for it to be _that_ bad.

If Pionk is worth his contract then Trouba is easily worth his. Trouba is overpaid at 8. He should probably be getting about 7. OTOH Pionk gets nearly 6 and should probably be getting more like 3-3.5.

 

[RabidOne]

I feel like the main issue is the Jets are drafting b+ prospects at d at the highest, with some b's and c's.

These other organizations are drafting blue chip or a level prospects which tend to be more equipped to play at the nhl level.

Which again comes down to the organizations ability to assess D talent.

 

[CorgisPer60]

To get off of our discourse at drafting developing defenseman for deployment, Boston arrives to serve up another common L.

 

[voyageur]

None of which changes the fact that Jets D corps is light at the top, especially on the right side. They have drafted mostly B level prospects, several of which are coming ready at the same time but none of which project as top pair. We are not even certain of top 4 projections.

Well to get a top defenseman on the right side, you'd have to use a 1st round pick for one. Jets haven't done that since 2012, so it is what it is. Looking back pretty happy with this year's draft, I mean the Jets could have used their second 1st on a RD, but Lambert looks like a steal so far, and the Jets depth on RW is also thin.

2021 I think the highest RD was Ceulemans in our spot, Lucius I think will address the Jets impending RHC woes.

2020 I was interested in Braden Schneider but obviously Perfetti was a good pick in that spot.

2019 there wasn't really a RD in the spot the Jets took Heinola

2018 Stastny was worth the 1st round pick.

2017 I think the Jets didn't have a lot of options in the spot they picked. Jokiharju? Traded down to keep team together. I believe from what others have said Liljegren was their guy, and that wasn't avaialble after the trade. I am not sure Liljegren moves the needle that much.

2016 There was nothing around Stanley's spot, which the Jets traded up for.

2015 nothing around Jack Roslovic's spot. Kyle Connor was a pretty good pick.

So it is what it is. You can sift through the drafts, find a few later gems like Adam Fox and second guess, but unless the Jets pull off a big trade I don't think they are getting a dominant #1 RD any time soon. Just have to play the cards you are dealt, when the Jets had 3 top 4 RD, they didn't have great LD, so it's a balancing act. RD is probably harder to come by though, just looking at the way the league goes.

Jets could take a run at Damon Severson in the offseason, but they'd have to move someone out. Otherwise look at trades. Could you find an equal RD in trading Heinola? And where does that leave the LD depth next year when everyone graduates and the RD are Salomonsson, Lundmark, Bauer? I'm glad I'm not the GM, because it's not an easy job.

P.S Mort, maybe check the standings on March 12, 2020 and see where the Jets were in points, which is what I said. I know you are old, and probably forget things, I do too, but that was an emotional win over Edmonton that put them in what was the lead playoff position, with the tiebreaker advantage on the teams chasing them down the stretch.

 

[Jet]

Which again comes down to the organizations ability to assess D talent.

Might actually be prioritization of positional drafting

 

[Gm0ney]

It's so refreshing to see someone lay it out as is. It's funny how our memory fails us at times. Our D corps had a ton of issues when we inherited it from Atlanta. We managed to get Byfuglien playing a dominant game, and got Morrissey and Trouba established. That is the point where I think our D was at it's peak.

Even though we were on the high of getting a team, people did not like Stu, Hainsey, Johnny "Free Pizza" Oduya, or even Buff (I was one of his biggest critics). Bogo was much maligned, I stuck up for him (probably because I had a crush on him lmao).

The biggest issue with the Atlanta/early Jets D corps was the sieve between the pipes. That team wasn't bad. Chevy did a poor job of identifying problems and filling the holes, but it turns out that's kind of his style...

The 2011-12 Jets with Hellebuyck in net would've easily made the playoffs.

 

[Gabe Kupari]

The biggest issue with the Atlanta/early Jets D corps was the sieve between the pipes. That team wasn't bad. Chevy did a poor job of identifying problems and filling the holes, but it turns out that's kind of his style...

The 2011-12 Jets with Hellebuyck in net would've easily made the playoffs.

So in other words... helle would have masked the issues that team had at the time like he has done here the last couple years? That Atlanta team should have been blown up.. day 1 they purchased them. Day 1 cuz they were never EVER good enough.

 

[CorgisPer60]

So in other words... helle would have masked the issues that team had at the time like he has done here the last couple years? That Atlanta team should have been blown up.. day 1 they purchased them. Day 1 cuz they were never EVER good enough.

They were a one-line team with defense being the strongest point. This fan base would have happily adopted a happy to be here attitude in 2011. We told them from day one that blowing it up and rebuilding would have been preferable to what we were met with. We're in the same position now, only now we're being told that this market wouldn't handle a rebuild, and now we're chasing coaches and executives that understand the local market. I just want a team that can win games.

 

[DRW204]

To get off of our discourse at drafting developing defenseman for deployment, Boston arrives to serve up another common L.

 

[Guardian17]

That made me smile!

 

[tbcwpg]

Nothing ruins an almost perfect start to the season like a major HR faux-pas.

 

[CorgisPer60]

Nothing ruins an almost perfect start to the season like a major HR faux-pas.

NHL GMs just can't help getting in front of themselves. He even sounds weak and vacillating in his press conference. Either stand behind your convictions of his character or don't sign the f***ing guy. I hope this blows up in their face in a major way.