Around the NHL — Episode XLXVI

[Ice-Tray]

I should say it’s still possible that it works out great for Florida, patience is required of course, just feels like shitty move relationship-wise.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I’m at a loss as to what Zito did wrong with Huberdeau. He was approaching 30 years old, needing a new contract in a year. Zito saw an opportunity to get a 25 year old direct replacement and made the deal. What’s the problem ?

And they had preliminary discussions .. just did not make an offer. I assume H was looking for term that would take him to 35 or 36. H was just upset that there was no offer. The opportunity presented and Zito made a decision .. I don't see the problem. I would think Zito communicated to H when the deal was done which would be the right thing to do for any player. Zito obviously preferred the younger Tkachuk at a long term deal.

 

[R2010]

Hockey Canada Junior Players Were Accused Of Sex Assault In 2018 & Here's Who's Denied It

The woman has not named any names.

www.narcity.com

Reading through the statements. Not looking good on the sens.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

Hockey Canada Junior Players Were Accused Of Sex Assault In 2018 & Here's Who's Denied It

The woman has not named any names.

www.narcity.com

Reading through the statements. Not looking good on the sens.

We have a thread just for this wonderful topic

 

[Xspyrit]

I’m all for fair critiques. I fully believe Dorion’s overall body of work is grounds for him to be replaced but he hasn’t made a bad move since the offseason began.

1. He qualified the correct players and walked away from the others.

2. He fleeced Toronto on the Murray deal.

3. He bought out 2 more bad contracts.

4. He managed to move Brown without taking money back.

5. He got Norris done early.

6. He massively upgraded the top 6.

When working on a hard ceiling budget wise he needs certainty on committed dollars before adding.

Next is RFAs. Joseph has an arb case so we know that gets done, Branny should be simple and I doubt Formenton gets done until there is clarity unless he just signs his QO.

He has 3 more items that “need” to get done, extend Zub, add top 4 D and move Zaitsev.

Before anyone responds that he caused these issues look up and see my comment on his overall body of work.

I see but you know, I have never been praised for repairing my own mistakes

I'm very relieved by the current offseason. Last year we did nothing even though it was needed (no depth and veteran support). 2 seasons ago was absolutely disastrous and cost the franchise more than people are ready to realize so the current offseason is fantastic

1. All of this was no brainer stuff that any average fan could have done correctly. He did sign Gambrell though but I was not against it IF Gambrell is the 13th guy. If he's top-12, not a great move IMO.

2. I personally don't see it as a fleece. Murray is still a good goalie but massively injury prone. After his first 7 games in Ottawa (defense was Chabot, Zaitsev, Gudbranson, Coburn, Mike Reilly and Josh Brown lol), he managed to maintain a 0.907 SV% despite the way below average defense. I am happy with the move though, saved the franchise a lot of money and even if Melnyk is not there anymore, money is still crucial for us. the 2 picks paid were not disastrous and money is obviously worth a lot more to us. Keep in mind that many teams would have never made that move if they had the cap space, which we had. They'd rather have picks than money, because well, they already have a lot of money

3. White buyout was a no brainer because it's the last time it was cheap. Del Zotto, another mistake to repair. IMO it feels weird praising a GM who has $5,562,500 in dead salary on 5 various past contracts

4. Moving Brown for a 2nd was the easiest thing to do, like moving Bjorkstrand for 3rd + 4th, it doesn't mean it was great asset management moves. These type of players are really sought after at the deadline (think Coleman, Copp, Lehkonen, etc). Stupid for Columbus to have overpaid Gudbranson at 4.0 AAV to then dump a pretty good player. For Ottawa, IMO it was stupid to RUSH this as Brown won't even get cheques soon. Even more stupid if Batherson and/or Formenton are guilty in the scandal.

5. I was relieved to see that Norris will be ready for training camp. Giving 8 years and a lot of money helps to get things done early too

6. ADB trade was one of Dorion best moves ever, I have praised him for that, it was THE necessary move for the forward group. Being able to add Giroux was a bit lucky as he was looking for a nice retirement contract next to home but another great move nonetheless. He was praised for that as well

I am not totally against Dorion, he seriously look like a great guy and a good hockey mind, I just wish he could have been the assistant GM for several more years. He was "rushed" because of Murray sickness. IMO he has done a lot of damage to the franchise but while he was given a budget and working for a very tough boss, he has had an extremely easy situation so far with a lot of years to collect high picks and a lot of PRIME assets to trade and boost the rebuild. If you compare the assets collected from the firesale to what teams usually get (made these comparisons in other threads), our rebuild could have been more successful so far, a bit like the LA Kings who started rebuilding after but made the playoffs this past season.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

I see but you know, I have never been praised for repairing my own mistakes

I'm very relieved by the current offseason. Last year we did nothing even though it was needed (no depth and veteran support). 2 seasons ago was absolutely disastrous and cost the franchise more than people are ready to realize so the current offseason is fantastic

1. All of this was no brainer stuff that any average fan could have done correctly. He did sign Gambrell though but I was not against it IF Gambrell is the 13th guy. If he's top-12, not a great move IMO.

2. I personally don't see it as a fleece. Murray is still a good goalie but massively injury prone. After his first 7 games in Ottawa (defense was Chabot, Zaitsev, Gudbranson, Coburn, Mike Reilly and Josh Brown lol), he managed to maintain a 0.907 SV% despite the way below average defense. I am happy with the move though, saved the franchise a lot of money and even if Melnyk is not there anymore, money is still crucial for us. the 2 picks paid were not disastrous and money is obviously worth a lot more to us. Keep in mind that many teams would have never made that move if they had the cap space, which we had. They'd rather have picks than money, because well, they already have a lot of money

3. White buyout was a no brainer because it's the last time it was cheap. Del Zotto, another mistake to repair. IMO it feels weird praising a GM who has $5,562,500 in dead salary on 5 various past contracts

4. Moving Brown for a 2nd was the easiest thing to do, like moving Bjorkstrand for 3rd + 4th, it doesn't mean it was great asset management moves. These type of players are really sought after at the deadline (think Coleman, Copp, Lehkonen, etc). Stupid for Columbus to have overpaid Gudbranson at 4.0 AAV to then dump a pretty good player. For Ottawa, IMO it was stupid to RUSH this as Brown won't even get cheques soon. Even more stupid if Batherson and/or Formenton are guilty in the scandal.

5. I was relieved to see that Norris will be ready for training camp. Giving 8 years and a lot of money helps to get things done early too

6. ADB trade was one of Dorion best moves ever, I have praised him for that, it was THE necessary move for the forward group. Being able to add Giroux was a bit lucky as he was looking for a nice retirement contract next to home but another great move nonetheless. He was praised for that as well

I am not totally against Dorion, he seriously look like a great guy and a good hockey mind, I just wish he could have been the assistant GM for several more years. He was "rushed" because of Murray sickness. IMO he has done a lot of damage to the franchise but while he was given a budget and working for a very tough boss, he has had an extremely easy situation so far with a lot of years to collect high picks and a lot of PRIME assets to trade and boost the rebuild. If you compare the assets collected from the firesale to what teams usually get (made these comparisons in other threads), our rebuild could have been more successful so far, a bit like the LA Kings who started rebuilding after but made the playoffs this past season.

Even Wally gave a sincere toast to PD

 

[JD1]

Here's an article from the Athletic on cap space in general that lists dead cap space and bad contracts. Some teams have multiple bad contracts but generally only one is listed

We're probably about average.

No subscription needed to read the article

Ranking every NHL team’s salary cap situation, from best to worst

We are ranking how much cap space each team will likely have to improve their rosters beyond players who are already under team control.

theathletic.com

 

[GCK]

I see but you know, I have never been praised for repairing my own mistakes

I'm very relieved by the current offseason. Last year we did nothing even though it was needed (no depth and veteran support). 2 seasons ago was absolutely disastrous and cost the franchise more than people are ready to realize so the current offseason is fantastic

1. All of this was no brainer stuff that any average fan could have done correctly. He did sign Gambrell though but I was not against it IF Gambrell is the 13th guy. If he's top-12, not a great move IMO.

2. I personally don't see it as a fleece. Murray is still a good goalie but massively injury prone. After his first 7 games in Ottawa (defense was Chabot, Zaitsev, Gudbranson, Coburn, Mike Reilly and Josh Brown lol), he managed to maintain a 0.907 SV% despite the way below average defense. I am happy with the move though, saved the franchise a lot of money and even if Melnyk is not there anymore, money is still crucial for us. the 2 picks paid were not disastrous and money is obviously worth a lot more to us. Keep in mind that many teams would have never made that move if they had the cap space, which we had. They'd rather have picks than money, because well, they already have a lot of money

3. White buyout was a no brainer because it's the last time it was cheap. Del Zotto, another mistake to repair. IMO it feels weird praising a GM who has $5,562,500 in dead salary on 5 various past contracts

4. Moving Brown for a 2nd was the easiest thing to do, like moving Bjorkstrand for 3rd + 4th, it doesn't mean it was great asset management moves. These type of players are really sought after at the deadline (think Coleman, Copp, Lehkonen, etc). Stupid for Columbus to have overpaid Gudbranson at 4.0 AAV to then dump a pretty good player. For Ottawa, IMO it was stupid to RUSH this as Brown won't even get cheques soon. Even more stupid if Batherson and/or Formenton are guilty in the scandal.

5. I was relieved to see that Norris will be ready for training camp. Giving 8 years and a lot of money helps to get things done early too

6. ADB trade was one of Dorion best moves ever, I have praised him for that, it was THE necessary move for the forward group. Being able to add Giroux was a bit lucky as he was looking for a nice retirement contract next to home but another great move nonetheless. He was praised for that as well

I am not totally against Dorion, he seriously look like a great guy and a good hockey mind, I just wish he could have been the assistant GM for several more years. He was "rushed" because of Murray sickness. IMO he has done a lot of damage to the franchise but while he was given a budget and working for a very tough boss, he has had an extremely easy situation so far with a lot of years to collect high picks and a lot of PRIME assets to trade and boost the rebuild. If you compare the assets collected from the firesale to what teams usually get (made these comparisons in other threads), our rebuild could have been more successful so far, a bit like the LA Kings who started rebuilding after but made the playoffs this past season.

So the real difference of opinion is around the Brown trade. You say it was rushed although history shows us it gets harder to dump money the closer it gets to the season start.

The Pacioretty and Bjorkstrand trades show us that even better players than Brown are not getting any return if the acquiring team is taking on the full freight without sending back money.

You also mentioned that Brown would return more at the deadline this season, great in theory but that’s money towards a player that doesn’t fit in the budget.

The other whole premise of hedging against losing Batherson and/or Formenton is a reach. In that scenario we could wind up having one or both players available, which is far and away the most likely situation. Weither hit the start of the season 4M over budget and scrambling to shave 4M or we stop pursuing the D upgrade. I doubt that either scenario ends well.

Finally I applaud your stance on Murray. You are on an island with Dubas and Murray’s mother as far as not seeing it as a fleecing. If you are right on this one then huge props to you.

 

[Big Muddy]

It's an ongoing point that's been made

I was talking about something different though. I was only commenting on the math involved in accrued cap. Isn't most of the comments and sentiment about Dorion positive these days?

 

[Yak]

 

[Tuna99]

Still got a soft spot for Ryan Dzingel, happy to see he’s got a spot next year

 

[SensHulk]

Damn imagine if he had accepted the long term contract ottawa was offering in 2019…

 

[Korpse]

Still got a soft spot for Ryan Dzingel, happy to see he’s got a spot next year

Two way deal. 150k minor salary and 200K guaranteed. He might get a handful of games.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Damn imagine if he had accepted the long term contract ottawa was offering in 2019…

Was very glad that contract didn't go through

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

I’m at a loss as to what Zito did wrong with Huberdeau. He was approaching 30 years old, needing a new contract in a year. Zito saw an opportunity to get a 25 year old direct replacement and made the deal. What’s the problem ?

Business on paper is one thing.

But you have to balance it out with the fact that human beings are involved.

It's tricky...the ultimate goal is to win a Cup, but in a civilized society, you also need to treat your fellow humans with some level of decency and respect.

 

[GCK]

Business on paper is one thing.

But you have to balance it out with the fact that human beings are involved.

It's tricky...the ultimate goal is to win a Cup, but in a civilized society, you also need to treat your fellow humans with some level of decency and respect.

So what was Zito supposed to do, not make a trade that he thinks is good for his team?

 

[Micklebot]

So what was Zito supposed to do, not make a trade that he thinks is good for his team?

Yeah, I'm with you on this. Opportunities come up, and you got to make a call. A player like M.Tkachuk doesn't become available often, at least not at his age.

Huberdeau I guess had Florida as his long term plan, and was surprised by the move, so I guess the GM could have let him know in advance, but this wasn't like Muckler with Hossa, he didn't string him along knowing he was going to trade him (that we know of) and what do you do if the deal falls through and you told your star player you were going to move him.

I have no issues with how Zito handled it, I'm not sure it was a good move for the team because they gave up a lot, but if they think Tkachuk makes them better long term, that's a move you make.

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

So what was Zito supposed to do, not make a trade that he thinks is good for his team?

It's a bit more complex than that. Huberdeau signed a couple of very team friendly deals, and gave that organization most of his best years. Dude easily left $15 mil or more on the table for Florida, and stuck by them in all those lean years.

I'd say the least Zito can do is talk to the guy a bit before the trade.

 

[Masked]

It's a bit more complex than that. Huberdeau signed a couple of very team friendly deals, and gave that organization most of his best years. Dude easily left $15 mil or more on the table for Florida, and stuck by them in all those lean years.

He signed his current deal coming off 54 and 59 point seasons. That would have been market rate at the time. He certainly wasn't getting $7.4 a year with those numbers on a 6 year deal.

Assen na yo!

 

[GCK]

It's a bit more complex than that. Huberdeau signed a couple of very team friendly deals, and gave that organization most of his best years. Dude easily left $15 mil or more on the table for Florida, and stuck by them in all those lean years.

I'd say the least Zito can do is talk to the guy a bit before the trade.

They had discussions about an extension but no offer. Zito had a chance to make the move, he pulled the trigger and then let the players know. I doubt he was shopping Huberdeau around the league, if he was then yes a conversation to let Huberdeau know he wasn’t in their plans going forward would have been warranted.

 

[BondraTime]

Getting a 24 year old for the next 9 seasons for 9.5 rather than a 30 year old likely looking for 10+ For the next 6-8 only makes sense.

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

They had discussions about an extension but no offer. Zito had a chance to make the move, he pulled the trigger and then let the players know. I doubt he was shopping Huberdeau around the league, if he was then yes a conversation to let Huberdeau know he wasn’t in their plans going forward would have been warranted.

Yeah, if the Tkachuk deal doesnt go through there is no way they trade him... so discussing it before it was a done deal seems really risky and pointless imo. I get why Huberdeau is hurt but don't think Zito did anything wrong.

 

[GCK]

Can someone explain to me how the leafs are considered to have a “Loaded” roster.

Matthews - Superstar top 3 in the game
Marner - Superstar top 5 winger in the game
Tavares declining vet still a very good 2LC
Nylander - very good winger
Bunting - breakout season but can he replicate
Kerfoot - meh, may need to be moved for cap
Decent 3rd line
4th line is an embarrassment

Reilly - legit top pair D
Brodie - good complementary D
Muzzin - declining injury prone
Gio - 38 yo but still good
Lillegrin - maybe ?
Holl - Trash
Sandin (unsigned)

Murray/Samsonov ??????

Good roster but not loaded.

They will struggle with the cap this season as they are 1.8M over without Sandin signed.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Siegenthaler, who I've never seen play but had amazing metrics as a defensive dman and just had a great breakout year signed 5 years at 3.4M, which seems like a steal.

Good comp for Zubby.

 

[Blotto71]

Can someone explain to me how the leafs are considered to have a “Loaded” roster.

Matthews - Superstar top 3 in the game
Marner - Superstar top 5 winger in the game
Tavares declining vet still a very good 2LC
Nylander - very good winger
Bunting - breakout season but can he replicate
Kerfoot - meh, may need to be moved for cap
Decent 3rd line
4th line is an embarrassment

Reilly - legit top pair D
Brodie - good complementary D
Muzzin - declining injury prone
Gio - 38 yo but still good
Lillegrin - maybe ?
Holl - Trash
Sandin (unsigned)

Murray/Samsonov ??????

Good roster but not loaded.

They will struggle with the cap this season as they are 1.8M over without Sandin signed.

It's like this, if you were a real Leaf fan you would just read the first 2 names and then start convulsing with bliss. When you came around you'd assume the rest of the roster was good and then proceed to trash every other organization.