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Frk It said:
I would absolutely want to get wisdom and be advised from Holland if this was like 2012.

What am I getting from the guy who thought picking Zadina was a good idea, and picking Cholowski was a good idea, and picking Rasmussen was a good idea, and trading away the pick that could have landed Chychrun was a good idea, and signing Frans Nielsen til he was 40 was a good idea, and etc etc etc

Seems he is making more bad calls than good the last 4-5 years and I want to pick his brain? Because he used to have a great grasp on things 10+ years ago?
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Yeah. Even if I wrote this season off for the Oilers and say that overall Holland has improved the team, I'm struggling to figure out exactly what he would add to Detroit that was in need of improvement.

Yzerman already has a very good group of people around him. What weakness is there that's also something Holland could shore up?

Unless he was given a special advisory position, and said position was publicly sponsored by We Like Our Team Extra Strength Tires. I could get behind that, just for the memes and Photoshop material.
 
Konnan511 said:
Why would Bedard's Mom sleep with Corey Perry? He's an ugly looking dude. She could do much better.
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Lots of times reality is stranger than fiction. If that applies here, what could be stranger than that? :popcorn:
 
I'm no legal expert, but I don't think you can just terminate a contract based on that, so I don't see how those rumors are true
 


Thought of Vrana immediately, although of course probably not the same situation. Man. It's like going to HR or the company EAP for help when their primary concern is protection from lawsuits.
 
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izlez said:
I'm no legal expert, but I don't think you can just terminate a contract based on that, so I don't see how those rumors are true
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The SPC states "refrain from conduct detrimental to the best interest of the Club", but that wording is so vague you'd have to do something egregious like Galchenyuk to make it stick. When it comes to contracts, it's better to be more specific, these catch all statements don't stand up so well in court.

When Mike Richards' contract was terminated by the Kings for illegal drug possession, the NHLPA filed a grievance and they settled. I think that sets the bar higher than "banging Connor's mom".

So as bad as the rumors are, I think he did something worse.
 
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jkutswings said:
Yeah. Even if I wrote this season off for the Oilers and say that overall Holland has improved the team, I'm struggling to figure out exactly what he would add to Detroit that was in need of improvement.

Yzerman already has a very good group of people around him. What weakness is there that's also something Holland could shore up?

Unless he was given a special advisory position, and said position was publicly sponsored by We Like Our Team Extra Strength Tires. I could get behind that, just for the memes and Photoshop material.
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Introducing Kickin' Tires! We like our team, and you will too!
 
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Gniwder said:
The SPC states "refrain from conduct detrimental to the best interest of the Club", but that wording is so vague you'd have to do something egregious like Galchenyuk to make it stick. When it comes to contracts, it's better to be more specific, these catch all statements don't stand up so well in court.

When Mike Richards' contract was terminated by the Kings for illegal drug possession, the NHLPA filed a grievance and they settled. I think that sets the bar higher than "banging Connor's mom".

So as bad as the rumors are, I think he did something worse.
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Yeah, not saying he didn't do that with her, but that can't be the reason for him getting terminated. Shanny, Corson and I believe Chelios have all gotten involved with teammates wives and none were terminated. I also think Patrick Sharp either did, or someone did with his wife as well. I am sure it has happened plenty of unknown times as well.
 
Winger98 said:
Consider this a reply to everyone.

Look at where Edmonton finished for the 13 seasons prior to Holland getting there, including the first four seasons of McDavid's career. Holland inherited a cap strapped team stripped of moveable assets and has made them a perennial playoff team. Which I know people will point to McDavid and say that's easy with him there but...history with him says otherwise. And they are right to not throw their 1st away in a desperation move when what they need is for the players they have to start playing better.

And I guess I have more faith in Yzerman to continue being the GM regardless of who is in the room, and I have no issue with Devellano 2.0 or whatever. I find the worries that Holland would somehow backdoor a virus into Yzerman's decision making unlikely. I also don't think Holland and Yzerman are polar opposites on the GM ladder.
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What you call making Edmonton a perennial playoff team, I call an Oilers team that needs McDavid and Draisatl to be putting up 2/3/4 point games night in night out to stay afloat. Their depth is terrible and bloated (sound familiar?). Just because they were worse before Holland doesn't mean he's really done anything of real value there. Maybe massively overpaying (or overterming) players like Nurse, Campbell, etc. have helped them be that perennial playoff team, but given they are cap-strapped and have few options to make more (sorely-needed) improvements I fail to see how that really puts them in a better position. The state that team is in right now is testament to that. If McDavid and Draisatl walk in a couple years because the team continues to be mired in mediocrity, how exactly do you absolve the guy who was GM for most of their prime years?

If Holland's way of thinking won't be impacting Yzerman's decision-making, then what would be the point of bringing him on as an advisor? To be a cheerleader? Come on man, Holland as an advisor means Holland's ideas holding some weight in the organization. Considering his track record over the last 10 years, I think there's a higher chance for harm than help.

edit: typo
 
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Oddbob said:
Yeah, not saying he didn't do that with her, but that can't be the reason for him getting terminated. Shanny, Corson and I believe Chelios have all gotten involved with teammates wives and none were terminated. I also think Patrick Sharp either did, or someone did with his wife as well. I am sure it has happened plenty of unknown times as well.
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It can if it gets into the lockerroom. And if it's on twitter... it's in the lockerroom. Again, not making claims, but taking conduct from the 80s/90s and trying to apply them in 2023... is a bit of a stretch. It's a whole new CBA and SPC rules for one and entirely different societal norms in play for two.
 
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norrisnick said:
It can if it gets into the lockerroom. And if it's on twitter... it's in the lockerroom. Again, not making claims, but taking conduct from the 80s/90s and trying to apply them in 2023... is a bit of a stretch. It's a whole new CBA and SPC rules for one and entirely different societal norms in play for two.
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Not when it comes to an affair. Affairs/Cheating are wrong, not illegal.
 
norrisnick said:
Conduct doesn't have to be illegal to warrant contract termination.
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It doesn't, but players aren't getting breach of contract for sleeping with someone's mom. Doesn't matter that this is 2023.

Emily Kaplan has already made mention it involved a team employee, thus not Bedard's mom.
 
Oddbob said:
It doesn't, but players aren't getting breach of contract for sleeping with someone's mom. Doesn't matter that this is 2023.
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It all depends on what’s in the contract. Given Chicago’s recent history with sexual misconduct, it’s not far-fetched to think that something about inappropriate relationships is included in these contracts.
 
Oddbob said:
It doesn't, but players aren't getting breach of contract for sleeping with someone's mom. Doesn't matter that this is 2023.

Emily Kaplan has already made mention it involved a team employee, thus not Bedard's mom.
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If that someone is a theoretical teammate... they 100% would and should.

I know. Just discussing the abstract.
 
norrisnick said:
If that someone is a theoretical teammate... they 100% would and should.

I know. Just discussing the abstract.
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Still don't think that would get a termination through. There are even lawyers in the trade deadline thread saying that would not be enough to get a player breached.
 
Oddbob said:
Still don't think that would get a termination through. There are even lawyers in the trade deadline thread saying that would not be enough to get a player breached.
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I can pretend to be a lawyer in this thread if you want.

The conduct clauses in the SPC are pretty vague, but nailing a teammates mom could be considered fairly detrimental to the wellbeing of the team...
 
norrisnick said:
I can pretend to be a lawyer in this thread if you want.

The conduct clauses in the SPC are pretty vague, but nailing a teammates mom could be considered fairly detrimental to the wellbeing of the team...
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Go ahead and pretend. I didn't say it, others claiming to be lawyers did, and believe it or not, some people tell the truth. I heavily doubt affair with teammates mom would make it through any NHLPA appeal of termination, when it took a boatload to get Mike Richards terminated for breaking the actual law.
 
Oddbob said:
Go ahead and pretend. I didn't say it, others claiming to be lawyers did, and believe it or not, some people tell the truth. I heavily doubt affair with teammates mom would make it through any NHLPA appeal of termination, when it took a boatload to get Mike Richards terminated for breaking the actual law.
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Again, breaking or not breaking the law is irrelevant.

(e) to conduct himself on and off the rink according to the highest standards of
honesty, morality, fair play and sportsmanship, and to refrain from conduct detrimental to the
best interest of the Club, the League or professional hockey generally.

That's what's on the SPC.
 
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