Around the League, Summer 2016--NHL Draft Shenanigans Edition

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So you think he will do better without having Josi to help him out?

Weber's peak is higher than Subban's will be, but Weber is done his and Subban is entering his IMO. That is why this is a big win for nashville.

I'm just not sure if Weber is done and over his peak. D is one of those funny things.
If he is then this is a big win for Nashville.
If he is not then it becomes a closer trade.
Trying to evaluate who won or lost in this deal is impossible right now. And I'm one that believes that there doesn't have to be a winner or loser in a trade. It's going to take some time for it all to flush out. But from a strictly financial point of view I do think Nashville lost. And if Weber is bitter and doesn't want to play out some of those final years he can really screw them for it.

Where I think Edmonton gave up more in the trade today. They got a piece they needed very badly. And even with as good as Hall has been. They have an abundance of top end wingers. So where on paper it might look like they lost. In practice I think both teams won. Which as a division team doesn't make me happy one bit Edmonton getting better. And it looks like they aren't done.
 
Stamkos gets 8.5 million AAV for 8 years and Kopi's contract is 8 years for 10 million AAV.

Dean has had a bad couple years in negotiating trades and extensions. Starting to wonder if his seat starts to get warm if he continues getting smoked in negotiations.
 
Stamkos gets 8.5 million AAV for 8 years and Kopi's contract is 8 years for 10 million AAV.

Dean has had a bad couple years in negotiating trades and extensions. Starting to wonder if his seat starts to get warm if he continues getting smoked in negotiations.

Kopitar is a better player than Stamkos. There is also no state income tax in Florida.

Dean's seat will be hot at this time next year if the team has another disappointing season. Even then, he would get another year before they would consider moving on.

That being said, Dean's last two seasons have arguably been as bad as any GM in the NHL. He can't afford to make another disastrous trade or signing.

It all started with bringing back Richards and Greene, then they gave Gaborik way to long a term and it spiraled out of control with giving away the picks and prospects for rentals.

The bleeding has to be stopped here soon.
 
Stamkos gets 8.5 million AAV for 8 years and Kopi's contract is 8 years for 10 million AAV.

Dean has had a bad couple years in negotiating trades and extensions. Starting to wonder if his seat starts to get warm if he continues getting smoked in negotiations.

you honestly cant even compare the contracts, Kopitar is a much better, more complete player than Stamkos is and this team would be lost without him. the Lightning almost made the cup final without Stamkos this year
 
Kopitar is a better player than Stamkos. There is also no state income tax in Florida.

Dean's seat will be hot at this time next year if the team has another disappointing season. Even then, he would get another year before they would consider moving on.

That being said, Dean's last two seasons have arguably been as bad as any GM in the NHL. He can't afford to make another disastrous trade or signing.

It all started with bringing back Richards and Greene, then they gave Gaborik way to long a term and it spiraled out of control with giving away the picks and prospects for rentals.

The bleeding has to be stopped here soon.

We'll never know because of Voynov. If he doesn't do what he did, the Kings have their top 4 defenseman. They either then don't get Sekera, or don't trade the 1st for him, either way. If they don't do that, I don't think Lombardi feels somewhat forced to get Lucic, because they both missed the playoffs in 2015, and you don't want Carolina winning the lottery with the pick you traded to miss the playoffs.

Whatever way you slice it, Brown, Richards, and Voynov are the crux of it all. They're the holy trinity. If Brown keeps scoring, maybe Gaborik isn't even brought in, or not signed to a somewhat decent sized contract, either way. If Richards was still a legit 2nd center, Carter could've could've stayed on the wing. Then Voynov, and the never ending search for a replacement.

The Kings are looking for a scoring winger, a 3rd center, and top 4 defenseman. That's what Brown, Richards, and Voynov were being paid to be, up to and including today. They got nothing for Voynov, nothing for Richards, and not getting near enough out of Brown. It's not just any one of those things, it's all of them at the same time.
 
Kopitar is a better player than Stamkos. There is also no state income tax in Florida.

Dean's seat will be hot at this time next year if the team has another disappointing season. Even then, he would get another year before they would consider moving on.

That being said, Dean's last two seasons have arguably been as bad as any GM in the NHL. He can't afford to make another disastrous trade or signing.

It all started with bringing back Richards and Greene, then they gave Gaborik way to long a term and it spiraled out of control with giving away the picks and prospects for rentals.

The bleeding has to be stopped here soon.

Still don't think the Gaborik signing was bad, not even that much in hindsight.

27 goals in 2015 when this team should have been challenging for another title. Just started to get going last year until the unfortunate knee injury which was not due to Gaborik being fragile as it wasn't a soft tissue deal like he usually had in the past.

The term had to be long to get the AAV down and the Kings got exactly what they wanted in his first year after signing the deal. He probably gets to 20 last season if not for the injury. Always knew it could be a problem down the road but, really, it probably isn't that much of a problem right now if (IF) he is healthy next season.

The problem is Brown's contract which I also can't give Lombardi a hard time for. His decline, the Richards dead cap and Voynov make the Gaborik contract look bad because now they look like they aren't a contender so why pay an old guy that much?

I'm not so upset about his contract decisions as I am the amount of assets wasted for one playoff win in two seasons. No issue with going for it with Sekera but the double down with Lucic really hurts. I fully agree with it being great that DL is a GM who will go all-in, but to make the Lucic deal based on getting Voynov back--which was far from certain--is pretty asinine.

He's talking like a guy who knows he kind of got his ass handed to him lately as well as someone who understands he did things he usually wouldn't do. He will definitely get a pass if they have a poor season this year and, while they are setting out to be competitive, I'm pretty sure he knows that is the case so they can have more of a "developmental" year this season and stop hiring outside guns to fill holes created by the loss of homegrown talent or the diminished skills of said talent.

Let's not forget that the best UFA signings this guy has ever made are the ones that he lost out on, save for Scuderi and Mitchell. Will he pull a similar move off where he maybe overpays for someone not considered to be that good/damaged goods or does he toss money at a LW? My money is on the former, although more so on not doing much of anything at all.

He knows he has problems in the Top 6 and on the blue line. Better to see what you have on the farm before selling the farm again due to the limited space. If he goes for a good-sized UFA contract and it doesn't work out well, we are all ****ed. With who is available, I don't think it is worth the risk.
 


It's not all about offense though right? Look at Dallas. Look at Edmonton.

If 12-13 and 13-14 were taken out of that equation, are the numbers better? I have no idea. Larsson's rookie year was 11-12, why not add that? Why start at his 2 lowest scoring seasons?
 
He's talking like a guy who knows he kind of got his ass handed to him lately as well as someone who understands he did things he usually wouldn't do. He will definitely get a pass if they have a poor season this year and, while they are setting out to be competitive, I'm pretty sure he knows that is the case so they can have more of a "developmental" year this season and stop hiring outside guns to fill holes created by the loss of homegrown talent or the diminished skills of said talent.

You can write a story that everything that's happened since Game 3 against SJ in 2014, maybe warped everyone. From the top down. Lombardi's loyalty, or the players being able to come back from anything, or whatever else. Such an insane run, so many different events coming together at the right time, that you get lost in the result rather than the process. At the same time, the whole reason for the process is for the result.

That, and, the Brown/Richards/Voynov trifecta. They haven't gotten enough out of Brown since signing the new deal, and that included the last year of his previous contract. They got maybe 2.5 years out of Richards, who they traded Schenn and Simmonds for. You don't find just young right handed defenseman on a good contract out there. It's not picking an apple. They're not easily available.
 
Kopitar is a better player than Stamkos. There is also no state income tax in Florida.

Dean's seat will be hot at this time next year if the team has another disappointing season. Even then, he would get another year before they would consider moving on.

That being said, Dean's last two seasons have arguably been as bad as any GM in the NHL. He can't afford to make another disastrous trade or signing.

It all started with bringing back Richards and Greene, then they gave Gaborik way to long a term and it spiraled out of control with giving away the picks and prospects for rentals.

The bleeding has to be stopped here soon.

I think it is homerish to state that Stamkos isn't better than Kopitar. Stamkos is a top 5 player in the NHL, is Kopitar? No, certainly top ten. I can see income tax as an issue financially for players but that's a fairly large AAV gap of 1.5 million. That kind of cushion helps you with flexibility in contracts for other players, like a Lucic for example.

The problem I have with the Kings is that the Kings play a heavy game, and at the same time signing guys to 6-8 year contract extensions. Because of that, the contracts are horrendous and no team will touch it. It'll be a couple years until DL can clear the deck of all the contract anchors he made and hopefully there's a resurgent Kings squad that are cup contenders.
 
Wow - been out all day and came back to this - lol :amazed:

I think the Hall deal is ok for Edmonton. I don't know too much about Larsson but Hall is totally expendable on the Oilers (how many all offense, no defense forwards do they need?) and they need D in the worst way..

Mind blown at the Weber-Subban deal. Never would have seen that coming from either team's perspective. I like Subban a lot and that totally changes Nashville's persona. I think Weber is being unduly bashed though. He's still a monster HOF level Dman for a few more years.

Nice deal for Tampa. LOL @ the hand-wringing of Stamkos' deal compared to Kopi's. A) State tax and B) I'd take Kopi over Stamkos (and I love Stammer).
 
I think it is homerish to state that Stamkos isn't better than Kopitar. Stamkos is a top 5 player in the NHL, is Kopitar? No, certainly top ten. I can see income tax as an issue financially for players but that's a fairly large AAV gap of 1.5 million. That kind of cushion helps you with flexibility in contracts for other players, like a Lucic for example.

The problem I have with the Kings is that the Kings play a heavy game, and at the same time signing guys to 6-8 year contract extensions. Because of that, the contracts are horrendous and no team will touch it. It'll be a couple years until DL can clear the deck of all the contract anchors he made and hopefully there's a resurgent Kings squad that are cup contenders.

Stamkos has not been the same since the leg injury. I don't know if the 60 goal player ever returns. I think Kopitar with his 200 foot game and consistent numbers in a defense first system is the better player.

And yes, the big issue with the Kings contracts is the term. BigKing, the lower AAV deals have caused more harm than good to the Kings. They should have moved on from Greene and Richards after 2014 and they wouldn't have had to sign Gaborik for so long.
 
Imagine if the Kings dealt Tyler Toffoli for Adam Larsson. Oh wait, some people here actually suggested that.

I believe it was going to be as easy as Pearson straight up.

Devils fans said it would have to be Toffoli: they knew what they were talking about.

As for someone's earlier comment on Stamkos, don't understand how he is a Top 5 player in the league ahead of Kopitar.
 
I'd be curious about utilization with that chart. I can only imagine that Giordano/Brodie did the heavy lifting while Hamilton got the easier matchups. Meanwhile Greene/Larsson typically got the opposition's top line.

In terms of sheer offense, Hamilton is better than Larsson. +/- isn't the perfect stat, but Hamilton was -14 last season while Larsson was +15.

iT'S THIs so much. Larsson was a top pairing guy all year; Hamilton got sheltered and offensive deployment.

I don't think anybody would argue that Larsson struggled under DeBoer. I kinda wish people would at least make that distinction before citing Larsson's career numbers as if he hasn't been trending in the right direction since the coaching change.

People have been wrecking him out of context all day, which doesn't bode well for the media microscope he's about to enter. Love how they look the stats back just enough years to make him look awful.

He might never be a stud offensive guy exclusively, but he moves the play and is a net positive influence bigtime.

Imagine if the Kings dealt Tyler Toffoli for Adam Larsson. Oh wait, some people here actually suggested that.

Well given that Taylor Hall > TT and he's what went, maybe I don't look so crazy for suggesting it.
 
I wouldn't give up a young sniper capable of potting 30+ goals who can also generate 50-60+ points for a defensive dman who's career high is 3 goals, 24 points, and has only been able to appear in one full season.

Easier to find defensive dmen than to acquire a young sniper.

Chiarelli will regret this trade.
 
I think it is homerish to state that Stamkos isn't better than Kopitar. Stamkos is a top 5 player in the NHL, is Kopitar? No, certainly top ten. I can see income tax as an issue financially for players but that's a fairly large AAV gap of 1.5 million. That kind of cushion helps you with flexibility in contracts for other players, like a Lucic for example.

The problem I have with the Kings is that the Kings play a heavy game, and at the same time signing guys to 6-8 year contract extensions. Because of that, the contracts are horrendous and no team will touch it. It'll be a couple years until DL can clear the deck of all the contract anchors he made and hopefully there's a resurgent Kings squad that are cup contenders.

I would question your hockey knowledge if you actually believe Stamos is a better player than Kopitar..
lets for one second overlook the fact that Kopitar is a complete 2 way player and top 3 center in the NHL, and plays in a defensive minded scheme that limits his offensive production yet he still close to a PPG player....

Kopitar
better defender
better playmaker
better all around player
has actually showed up in the playoffs
has 2 cups

Stamkos
has more goals- might be do to offensive scheme
 
I wouldn't give up a young sniper capable of potting 30+ goals who can also generate 50-60+ points for a defensive dman who's career high is 3 goals, 24 points, and has only been able to appear in one full season.

Easier to find defensive dmen than to acquire a young sniper.

Chiarelli will regret this trade.

I wouldn't either if I thought that's all he was capable of.
 


Speaking of Hall, still remember this hit from a few years ago... also because it's when Simmonds wrecked his leg/ankle in the after-hit melee.

edit: nope, can't get the link to work
 
I wouldn't either if I thought that's all he was capable of.

He's not going to turn into Victor Hedman, which many thought was his upside in his draft year.

On a good team, he's a second pairing defenseman. On a bad team, he's a #1 dman.

Come to think of it, this is the same man who also traded Tyler Seguin, so it makes perfect sense.
 
Stamkos has not been the same since the leg injury. I don't know if the 60 goal player ever returns. I think Kopitar with his 200 foot game and consistent numbers in a defense first system is the better player.

And yes, the big issue with the Kings contracts is the term. BigKing, the lower AAV deals have caused more harm than good to the Kings. They should have moved on from Greene and Richards after 2014 and they wouldn't have had to sign Gaborik for so long.

It's not Gaborik as much as it is Brown's, seeing as Gaborik has produced more during it.

Greene doesn't bother me as much because it is $2MM and he's been LTIR for one of the two seasons so far. We can talk about it in December though if he is a pylon out there.

The Kings had a few guys on long term for lower AAV deals when they won the Cups and still have good, long-term deals on the books. It's just a selection of those that are rancid.

If Gaborik wasn't signed for as long due to Greene/Richards not being here, then his AAV would of gone up and he'd still be on the books for a few more years.

I'm definitely not arguing with you on the Richards fiasco since you know where I stand on that one. Greene's $2MM would be nice right now but he also--don't laugh--could be a $2MM a year defenseman next season.
 


Speaking of Hall, still remember this hit from a few years ago... also because it's when Simmonds wrecked his leg/ankle in the after-hit melee.

edit: nope, can't get the link to work

You just need the alphanumeric part of the link inbetween the tags:
 
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