Around the League - PLAYOFFS!?

[eXile3]

Pens fan here. I hate you all for being right about Dubas.

 

[Leaf Rocket]

If the Leafs did it the league would crack down on them

I do agree with this but I will say, Mark stone LTIR was real. I remember seeing an interview after he just came off LTIR and I was like I know that back pain

Exactly. No way Bettman would allow the Leafs to do that.

100% with investigations being done. Still remember no gym use for Ontario players in the summer bullcrap.

 

[Evilhomer]

Not to gain an advantage and bring players back for game 1 of the playoffs.

And you believe that Vegas is going to keep Eichel out for the next 6 weeks?

Not to gain an advantage and bring players back for game 1 of the playoffs.

Also, as someone else said, if you think that Stone back injury was play-acting for LTIR purposes, then you have never had a serious back injury.

 

[ACC1224]

If the Leafs did it the league would crack down on them

Are you implying Eichel isn't hurt?

 

[BallardEra]

Dubas talks Guentzel, the trade deadline and the future of the Penguins

Pittsburgh’s GM talks on a wide-range of subjects today

www.pensburgh.com

 

[ToneDog]

Uh....the Leafs haven't used LTIR this season?


What constitutes "all in"? Trading a 20-ish something first round pick in exchange for the chance to potentially improve the roster and maybe make a run through the playoffs?

All-in would be trading your top prospects and picks for a player or players that you think will put you over the top. It is clear to me that Tre is hesitant to trade his first, given he does not have one next year and does not have a 2nd in the next three draft. But yes, trading his first is not going all-in. Of course, we all presume that he will add a dman at some point.

Speaking of going all in. Kyper thinks we should be going all in the next two years. Anything and everything should be on the table. I usually like Nick but not with this take. We will find out in a couple of months how wrong or right he was.

 

[Evilhomer]

Are you implying Eichel isn't hurt?

Aren't they doing the exact same thing virtually every team does, and in fact the very same thing that the Leafs did with Woll by moving him to LTIR well after he suffered the injury? Whatever accruals teams are able to achieve doing this, it all constitutes some form of cap machinations, even when it's done by the saintly Maple Leafs.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

I had a horrible dream last night that the Pens were in the Stanley Cup finals.

 

[rumman]

All-in would be trading your top prospects and picks for a player or players that you think will put you over the top. It is clear to me that Tre is hesitant to trade his first, given he does not have one next year and does not have a 2nd in the next three draft. But yes, trading his first is not going all-in. Of course, we all presume that he will add a dman at some point.

Speaking of going all in. Kyper thinks we should be going all in the next two years. Anything and everything should be on the table. I usually like Nick but not with this take. We will find out in a couple of months how wrong or right he was.

Most of us know how this ends, and the cup isn’t the conclusion, I’ve come to the conclusion it doesn’t matter what they do or don’t do as long as you have 4 forwards eating up half or more of your cap failure is inevitable……..

 

[Dekes For Days]

And you believe that Vegas is going to keep Eichel out for the next 6 weeks?

I don't really know much about this current Eichel injury or what Vegas' situation is. The previous Tampa/Vegas LTIR shenanigans are what was being referenced.

Also, as someone else said, if you think that Stone back injury was play-acting for LTIR purposes, then you have never had a serious back injury.

Nobody is talking about "play-acting". Teams just get sneaky with timing and bend the definition of medically fit to play.

 

[Evilhomer]

All-in would be trading your top prospects and picks for a player or players that you think will put you over the top. It is clear to me that Tre is hesitant to trade his first, given he does not have one next year and does not have a 2nd in the next three draft. But yes, trading his first is not going all-in. Of course, we all presume that he will add a dman at some point.

Speaking of going all in. Kyper thinks we should be going all in the next two years. Anything and everything should be on the table. I usually like Nick but not with this take. We will find out in a couple of months how wrong or right he was.

I generally don't agree with him, but I think he is absolutely right in this case. The future isn't guaranteed. Do everything in your power to win now, and accept that you will become Pittsburgh and Tampa in the future. It is a justifiable cost of winning.

Teams just get sneaky with timing and bend the definition of medically fit to play.

Which is exactly what Toronto did with Woll.

 

[Dekes For Days]

Which is exactly what Toronto did with Woll.

Not sure what you're referring to. Woll wasn't on LTIR going into last year's playoffs, and won't be on LTIR going into this year's playoffs. Not sure what advantage you think can be gained from a league minimum player anyway.

 

[TheTotalPackage]

Dubas talks Guentzel, the trade deadline and the future of the Penguins

Pittsburgh’s GM talks on a wide-range of subjects today

www.pensburgh.com

The whole narrative that Dubas has to listen to the owners and try and be competitive while the Crosby/Malkin/Letang core is still around is eerily reminiscent of the same narrative when JFJ was GM of the Leafs.

"He couldn't rebuild because of the owners."

Well, fine, you can't go scorched-earth. But no one held a gun to JFJ's head to trade a future star in Rask for a huge stiff in Raycroft. The same way I doubt Dubas was forced by ownership to get an aging, big salaried player in Karlsson as it simply was Dubas having a hard on for him (which stretches back to last year).

There are ways you can retool on the fly and try and remain competitive while replenishing the system through the draft and through some shrewd signings/trades without crippling your cap long term (Karlsson/Jarry) or trading away high picks.

Dubas is a typical salesman -- talks so eloquently that even his bullshit sounds good in the moment, but you end up realizing you had the wool pulled over your eyes.

 

[Evilhomer]

Not sure what you're referring to. Woll wasn't on LTIR going into last year's playoffs, and won't be on LTIR going into this year's playoffs. Not sure what advantage you think can be gained from a league minimum player anyway.

Eichel won't be going on LTIR until the playoffs either. That was what was being implied.

 

[Jojalu]

Eichel won't be going on LTIR until the playoffs either. That was what was being implied.

He very well could.

The first I can remember was Tampa with Kucherov.

Vegas last year magically had everyone healthy for the playoffs allowing them to be 10 million over the cap if itwas the regular season.(that might have been the year before)

Using LTIR is not wrong. If JT was injured tonight, put on LTIR for the season, the Leafs would have 11 mil in capspace for the deadline. They could then bring back JT and use the new players acquired.

Tampa and Vegas have already done this.

 

[ToneDog]

I generally don't agree with him, but I think he is absolutely right in this case. The future isn't guaranteed. Do everything in your power to win now, and accept that you will become Pittsburgh and Tampa in the future. It is a justifiable cost of winning.


Which is exactly what Toronto did with Woll.

Problem is these guys are closer to Sharks than Penguins.

 

[Evilhomer]

Problem is these guys are closer to Sharks than Penguins.

If that is the case, then none of the rest of it matters anyway, so might as well try to win now while the franchise player is having a blowout season.

 

[MilkofthePoppy]

The whole narrative that Dubas has to listen to the owners and try and be competitive while the Crosby/Malkin/Letang core is still around is eerily reminiscent of the same narrative when JFJ was GM of the Leafs.

"He couldn't rebuild because of the owners."

Well, fine, you can't go scorched-earth. But no one held a gun to JFJ's head to trade a future star in Rask for a huge stiff in Raycroft. The same way I doubt Dubas was forced by ownership to get an aging, big salaried player in Karlsson as it simply was Dubas having a hard on for him (which stretches back to last year).

There are ways you can retool on the fly and try and remain competitive while replenishing the system through the draft and through some shrewd signings/trades without crippling your cap long term (Karlsson/Jarry) or trading away high picks.

Dubas is a typical salesman -- talks so eloquently that even his bullshit sounds good in the moment, but you end up realizing you had the wool pulled over your eyes.

The problem with the Pens is that they are living on nostalgia. At some point, you need to look players in the eyes, shake their hands, and thank them for their services. Chicago went through this elongated spell with their previous core of Kane and Toews. Their GM traded for Seth Jones thinking it would extend their lifeline but ultimately it was a costly error. With that said, I would be willing to give up three or four first round picks for Crosby. I think he would teach our guys what it means to be champions.

 

[BallardEra]

The whole narrative that Dubas has to listen to the owners and try and be competitive while the Crosby/Malkin/Letang core is still around is eerily reminiscent of the same narrative when JFJ was GM of the Leafs.

"He couldn't rebuild because of the owners."

Well, fine, you can't go scorched-earth. But no one held a gun to JFJ's head to trade a future star in Rask for a huge stiff in Raycroft. The same way I doubt Dubas was forced by ownership to get an aging, big salaried player in Karlsson as it simply was Dubas having a hard on for him (which stretches back to last year).

There are ways you can retool on the fly and try and remain competitive while replenishing the system through the draft and through some shrewd signings/trades without crippling your cap long term (Karlsson/Jarry) or trading away high picks.

Dubas is a typical salesman -- talks so eloquently that even his bullshit sounds good in the moment, but you end up realizing you had the wool pulled over your eyes.

 

[Evilhomer]

The problem with the Pens is that they are living on nostalgia. At some point, you need to look players in the eyes, shake their hands, and thank them for their services.

It's why Tampa will probably tell Stamkos to look elsewhere at the end of this season.

 

[MSZ]

He very well could.

The first I can remember was Tampa with Kucherov.

Vegas last year magically had everyone healthy for the playoffs allowing them to be 10 million over the cap if itwas the regular season.(that might have been the year before)

Using LTIR is not wrong. If JT was injured tonight, put on LTIR for the season, the Leafs would have 11 mil in capspace for the deadline. They could then bring back JT and use the new players acquired.

Tampa and Vegas have already done this.

Chicago have also done it. That 2015 Hawks team was ridiculously loaded.

 

[BertCorbeau]

Another issue with the Pens in the last 10 years is their inability to draft/develop players in the pipeline to provide cheap, effective value and potential core replacements.

Yes they haven't drafted a lot and have been later picks but you need to get something out of your draft.

No top 6 forwards since 2014 or top 4 d-men .. heck even top 9/depth forwards are lacking.

No games played from their 2017 draft, and nothing yet from the 2020 to last years drafts.

So they're relying on free agency and other sources to round of the roster. This, in turn, has created a cap burden that will limit their ability to re-sign their only big hit of a pick (Guentzel) in the last 10-15 years

 

[TheTotalPackage]

The problem with the Pens is that they are living on nostalgia. At some point, you need to look players in the eyes, shake their hands, and thank them for their services. Chicago went through this elongated spell with their previous core of Kane and Toews. Their GM traded for Seth Jones thinking it would extend their lifeline but ultimately it was a costly error. With that said, I would be willing to give up three or four first round picks for Crosby. I think he would teach our guys what it means to be champions.

This is all true. But I for one am all for seeing team legends riding their career into the sunset with the one team that drafted them. I couldn't fathom seeing Crosby in another jersey besides a Penguins one.

Imagine in a decade's time we are having this same conversation about Matthews, Marner, Nylander and Rielly. I'd be choked to even think about seeing them in another uniform, let alone it actually happening.

 

[LeafEgo]

Aren't they doing the exact same thing virtually every team does, and in fact the very same thing that the Leafs did with Woll by moving him to LTIR well after he suffered the injury? Whatever accruals teams are able to achieve doing this, it all constitutes some form of cap machinations, even when it's done by the saintly Maple Leafs.

Not sure what you're referring to. Woll wasn't on LTIR going into last year's playoffs, and won't be on LTIR going into this year's playoffs. Not sure what advantage you think can be gained from a league minimum player anyway.

Do you even get cap accruals if you start the season using LTIR?

Don't think we would have been running a 23 man roster all this time if eligible to accrue.

 

[Jojalu]

C'mon Oilers!

Just beat the Bruins for crying out loud.