Around the league part 2

[Lt Dan]

Too bad the narrative will continue.

True, but the good news is that I finally figuered out how to really use the search function

after 4 bad searches, it was at the top of my list.
Now that I remember that my buddy Kings11 posted it, finding it again'll be easier than climbing the stairs with 2 fake legs

 

[BigKing]

Yes we traded a potential good RHD , which if memory serves , we seem to have an abundance of, for a dynamic scorer that not one single guy in the draft at our position could produce in the next 5 years. If Faber stays , guess what, now we have another RHD that there's no room for. Clarke ,Faber, Spence ,Durzi,Roy, Walker and on and on. 3 spots for 6 guys, 3 of them rookies. AS for LHD , do you pass on Clarke to draft the BPA LHD who is currently rated 31 on most list just to a fill a need?

Not at 8OA but Blake had no problem passing on BPA at 22OA in 2019 to try and fill LHD.

 

[Schrute farms]

And what's wrong with that? The idea that every prospect deployed is just to serve those two's purpose is laughable at best. Last time I checked it was a team sport. Anze and Drew still have plenty to give and still center this team, a team and ownership that wants to win while those two can.

If the plan has been to win another SCup with DD/Kopi, then it's been an unmitigated disaster up to this point in time. 3rd place in division at best and the bottom half of the WC standings those two years -- the only playoff years for Blake. Two playoff appearances (this year's pending one included) with not one series win. This year is not looking good for sniffing the cup yet again. Meanwhile DD/Kopi get yet another year older and yet another step closer to the end.

If the plan was a SCup, then maybe a different plan would have better.

 

[BigKing]

True, but the good news is that I finally figuered out how to really use the search function

after 4 bad searches, it was at the top of my list.
Now that I remember that my buddy Kings11 posted it, finding it again'll be easier than climbing the stairs with 2 fake legs

Magic legs

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Blake. Has. No. Plan.

It's time everyone started saying it with me. Blake had a plan back in 2017, and that was re-arrange the deck chairs on the Titanic. Well, the ship still sank, and here we are.

Everything Blake has done - every prospect deployed, every draft, every free agent - is to serve one goal and one goal only: win one more Stanley Cup with Anze Kopitar and Drew Doughty. That's it.

Blake has made some good moves in a vacuum. He's competent in the sense that he doesn't get fleeced in trades, and he's pretty good at drafting mid and late round talent. But he is clearly not the GM this franchise needs to build a new contending core from the ground up.

LMAO holy shit....he has no plan......and then f***ing literally outlines the plan that he sees......

It doesn't get much better than that......HE HAS NO PLAN......takes a breath.....EVERYTHING HE HAS DONE IS WITH ONE GOAL IN MIND.....(definition of a f***ing plan)

And you guys wonder why I hammer so much on stupid shit like this???? Really???

 

[shuchukfan]

Well, this season was looking good till all these injuries hit right before the playoffs. I honestly think they could contend with most teams when fully healthy. Timing is a bitch.

 

[chris kontos]

LMAO holy shit....he has no plan......and then f***ing literally outlines the plan that he sees......

It doesn't get much better than that......HE HAS NO PLAN......takes a breath.....EVERYTHING HE HAS DONE IS WITH ONE GOAL IN MIND.....(definition of a f***ing plan)

And you guys wonder why I hammer so much on stupid shit like this???? Really???

And as the leading author of writing stupid shit, you cant resist the chance to display your own lack of vocabulary and constant overuse of punctuation.
You need to crawl back in your hole before you embarrass yourself any further

 

[kingsfan28]

No. You draft Wallstedt instead of Clarke if that's you think you have RHD covered for the next decade. Or, you trade one of the millions of RHD you have for a LHD. It's not a zero sum game where your only option was to pass on Clarke to pick a guy that should be taken in the 2nd round.

Was Wallstedt really the BPA at that spot..no. They tried to get him later on but no takers later in the first. Here's the pther thing, if it were so easy to trade for LHD, every team would be balanced with equal LHD/RHD. They are the unicorns of the nhl.

 

[SmytheKing]

Was Wallstedt really the BPA at that spot..no. They tried to get him later on but no takers later in the first. Here's the pther thing, if it were so easy to trade for LHD, every team would be balanced with equal LHD/RHD. They are the unicorns of the nhl.

As far as goalies go? 100% absolutely he was. Stop moving goalposts. You said the Kings have a ton of RHD and presented a false scenario that if they didn't draft Clarke they have to draft some guy ranked 31st. If the Kings DON'T want to pick a RHD, they could have picked the goalie. Hell, they could have picked Guenther too.

The point is, there were options. There always are. Blake choosing to ignore them doesn't mean they didn't exist. The Kings, in theory, could have had Brock Faber and Jesper Wallstedt instead of Brandt Clarke and Kevin Fiala. Is MIN willing to take Durzi and a 1st instead of Faber for Fiala? Who knows. Is that such a stretch to believe they would though?

Also, before you start talking about monday morning quarterbacking, here's a post of mine from 2021 before the draft.

2021 NHL Entry Draft - Round 1: July 23 (8 p.m. ET; ESPN2, SN, SN NOW, TVA Sports)

Kings can only pick 1 FIFY

forums.hfboards.com

 

[kingsfan28]

The point is that they were good enough then and are good enough now to take those spots if you care more about developing them v. winning at present.

That's the whole debate.

Just when was "then"? AK isn't even close to being a top line player. He has a shot and that's where it end. So who's spot was he good enough to take? Kempe, VA , Moore, Iafollo, Valardi...

 

[SmytheKing]

Just when was "then"? AK isn't even close to being a top line player. He has a shot and that's where it end. So who's spot was he good enough to take? Kempe, VA , Moore, Iafollo, Valardi...

You're missing the point. It's about whether you want to develop these "amazing" prospects you've accumulated or if you want to win.

If you want to win, why are you holding onto these guys and playing them in places they don't belong? If you want to develop them, why aren't you moving the vets and instead playing these guys where they belong?

 

[kingsfan28]

As far as goalies go? 100% absolutely he was. Stop moving goalposts. You said the Kings have a ton of RHD and presented a false scenario that if they didn't draft Clarke they have to draft some guy ranked 31st. If the Kings DON'T want to pick a RHD, they could have picked the goalie. Hell, they could have picked Guenther too.

The point is, there were options. There always are. Blake choosing to ignore them doesn't mean they didn't exist. The Kings, in theory, could have had Brock Faber and Jesper Wallstedt instead of Brandt Clarke and Kevin Fiala. Is MIN willing to take Durzi and a 1st instead of Faber for Fiala? Who knows. Is that such a stretch to believe they would though?

Also, before you start talking about monday morning quarterbacking, here's a post of mine from 2021 before the draft.

2021 NHL Entry Draft - Round 1: July 23 (8 p.m. ET; ESPN2, SN, SN NOW, TVA Sports)

Kings can only pick 1 FIFY

forums.hfboards.com

We're not talking goalies, were talking about players ranking 1-32. He was not the best player at 7, he was the best rated goalie, but they, like the other 19 teams were not looking to draft a goalie that high. He's not some generational goalie you take at 7. If the kings were looking to get him that high, they would've.

Not at 8OA but Blake had no problem passing on BPA at 22OA in 2019 to try and fill LHD.

Who, Caufield, he was already taken? I looked at the guys below him, not a lot of standout other than one center

You can't have it both ways.Complaining the lack of LHD, draft one and then complain some more about the lack of LHD or now its the wrong pick.

 

[SmytheKing]

We're not talking goalies, were talking about players ranking 1-32. He was not the best player at 7, he was the best rated goalie, but they, like the other 19 teams were not looking to draft a goalie that high. He's not some generational goalie you take at 7. If the kings were looking to get him that high, they would've.

Four of 10 scouts had him in the Top 10 that year according to Bob McKenzie. Some as high as 5th.. Further, he put him 12th. Taking him at 8 in a year where half the kids either didn't play at all, or had a shortened season is not some crazy leap. The reason he fell to where he did was because of the "don't draft a goalie in the 1st round". He's likely to be the starter next year in MIN and will probably be one of the top goalies in the league in a couple of years afterwards.

...and the Kings not taking him that high is a reflection on them, not Wallstedt. He's probably going to be a better goalie than Clarke will be a defenseman. That's coming from someone who was, and still is, thrilled the Kings got him.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

And as the leading author of writing stupid shit, you cant resist the chance to display your own lack of vocabulary and constant overuse of punctuation.
You need to crawl back in your hole before you embarrass yourself any further

Says the guy who needs cue cards to type on a message board, I'm good, thank you.

 

[kingsfan28]

Four of 10 scouts had him in the Top 10 that year according to Bob McKenzie. Some as high as 5th.. Further, he put him 12th. Taking him at 8 in a year where half the kids either didn't play at all, or had a shortened season is not some crazy leap. The reason he fell to where he did was because of the "don't draft a goalie in the 1st round". He's likely to be the starter next year in MIN and will probably be one of the top goalies in the league in a couple of years afterwards.

...and the Kings not taking him that high is a reflection on them, not Wallstedt. He's probably going to be a better goalie than Clarke will be a defenseman. That's coming from someone who was, and still is, thrilled the Kings got him.

nobody's saying Wallstedt won't be a good goalie, but it's too risky taking a guy that high unless he's the next MAF or Price etc. If you take a guy that high you can't afford another Jack Campbell.It's picks like that that scare gm's away. Same could even be said for Carter Hart or Spenser Knight.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Four of 10 scouts had him in the Top 10 that year according to Bob McKenzie. Some as high as 5th.. Further, he put him 12th. Taking him at 8 in a year where half the kids either didn't play at all, or had a shortened season is not some crazy leap. The reason he fell to where he did was because of the "don't draft a goalie in the 1st round". He's likely to be the starter next year in MIN and will probably be one of the top goalies in the league in a couple of years afterwards.

...and the Kings not taking him that high is a reflection on them, not Wallstedt. He's probably going to be a better goalie than Clarke will be a defenseman. That's coming from someone who was, and still is, thrilled the Kings got him.

You know who else had that kind of hype? Jack Campbell, the reason they say don't pick goaltenders that high, is because they are a crap shoot...

If you look the past 15 years for the draft, let's start in 2018 for development,

2018 top drafted G, 2nd round no games played in the NHL, 1st G drafted to play was drafted in the 3rd round by COL, 4 games played
2017 top drafted G, 26th OA Oettinger, helluva pick there,
2016 top drafted G, Carter Hart, 2nd round,, jury is out, but I would consider solid
2015 top drafted G, Samsonov, 22nd OA, jury is out
2014 top drafted G, 2nd round, no games played, 2 picks after, Demko and Nejedlovic
2013 top drafted G, 2nd round, 4 games played
2012 top drafted G, 24th OA, 84 games, Subban
2011 top drafted G, 2nd round, 23 games played
2010 top drafted G, 11th OA, the aforementioned Campbell
2009 top drafted G, 2nd round, Koskinen etc,

I can keep going, but there is a reason teams do not take goaltenders in the top half of the draft....

 

[kingsfan28]

You know who else had that kind of hype? Jack Campbell, the reason they say don't pick goaltenders that high, is because they are a crap shoot...

If you look the past 15 years for the draft, let's start in 2018 for development,

2018 top drafted G, 2nd round no games played in the NHL, 1st G drafted to play was drafted in the 3rd round by COL, 4 games played
2017 top drafted G, 26th OA Oettinger, helluva pick there,
2016 top drafted G, Carter Hart, 2nd round,, jury is out, but I would consider solid
2015 top drafted G, Samsonov, 22nd OA, jury is out
2014 top drafted G, 2nd round, no games played, 2 picks after, Demko and Nejedlovic
2013 top drafted G, 2nd round, 4 games played
2012 top drafted G, 24th OA, 84 games, Subban
2011 top drafted G, 2nd round, 23 games played
2010 top drafted G, 11th OA, the aforementioned Campbell
2009 top drafted G, 2nd round, Koskinen etc,

I can keep going, but there is a reason teams do not take goaltenders in the top half of the draft....

Dallas really cleaned up in that 2017 draft. Top dman, goalie and forward in their first 3 picks.

 

[All The Kings Men]

Four of 10 scouts had him in the Top 10 that year according to Bob McKenzie. Some as high as 5th.. Further, he put him 12th. Taking him at 8 in a year where half the kids either didn't play at all, or had a shortened season is not some crazy leap. The reason he fell to where he did was because of the "don't draft a goalie in the 1st round". He's likely to be the starter next year in MIN and will probably be one of the top goalies in the league in a couple of years afterwards.

...and the Kings not taking him that high is a reflection on them, not Wallstedt. He's probably going to be a better goalie than Clarke will be a defenseman. That's coming from someone who was, and still is, thrilled the Kings got him.

For what it's worth (nothing)

I was absolutely positive they were going to take Wallstedt at 8 and if Clarke had been taken earlier I am still convinced they would have taken Wallstedt at 8.

 

[YP44]

I know it will never go away but the fact that we now have fairly reliable evidence that this isn't the case is going to drive me crazy every time it's reintroduced into the discourse.

i missed this, what evidence?

 

[YP44]

That has now been disproven

He was interviewed recently and he said that he would have signed in LA after this season. Twas actually posted in this thread by my man @kings11

Speculation: - LA Kings News, Rumors, Roster Thread 2022-23 Season Part 2

This might be the weirdest take you have ever had. Now teams overwhelmingly making decisions on players is about, me??? Why do teams want players in college? I don't know because two years in college has traditionally been the best way to maximize the potential of drafted players. I've asked...

forums.hfboards.com

View attachment 686869


@All The Kings Men bookmark this!

missed this, thank you

Well, this season was looking good till all these injuries hit right before the playoffs. I honestly think they could contend with most teams when fully healthy. Timing is a bitch.

avs losing makar is bigger than LA lossing Vilardi and Fiala

 

[Herby]

I wouldn’t say he had no plan. It just likely didn’t come to fruition.

I think Blake’s original plan was to add high end young pieces through the draft for a final run with 11 and 8. The other option would have been to completely tear it down and trade 11 and 8. This is what myself and others such as bland and K17 wanted to do.

Unfortunately for Blake some key things didn’t work out as planned. Vilardi had injuries and struggled mightily when he did play. He came around this season but there was no way to know this when they brought in all of these other guys. An incredibly flukey 2018 season resulted in the Kings having the 20th pick instead of what should have been another top 10 one. Kupari is a nice 4th line PK guy but imagine this team with someone like Hughes. 2019 produced what four years later may be the worst pick in franchise history, over basically everyone else who have all developed into difference makers including the guy they debated taking. 2020 they had a decision on 2 guys and they guy they passed on is off to a Hall of Fame Caliber start.

After all this happened it was to late to try and get value for 11 and 8, so Blake went the DT strategy of trading for the things you couldn’t draft, trying to build a team through trades and FA signings.

I’m sure if Blake had those boxes DL had back around at the end of the 2019/2020 season, you probably have by the end of this current season and into next some combination of Kopitar, Byfield, Turcotte and Vilardi at C.

A defense of Doughty, Anderson, Roy, Faber, Bjornfot and Spence as the key pieces. You end up drafting another defenseman in 2021 which crowds things a bit but it also means you should have enough at RHD to let Roy go and use some of that money to hopefully be giving 1-2 of your young centers the type of deals that the elite young centers sign after their ELC’s. In the real world that’s not even close.

Give Blake the benefit of the doubt that his C strategy was as RJ says similar to MLB teams SS drafting where guys move to 3b or 2b. And that did happen in reality with Vilardi

Is it crazy to think something like this was the plan?

??? / Kopitar / Kempe
Iafallo/ Byfield/ Vilardi
Moore/ Turcotte / Kaliyev
?? / Lizotte / Kupari

Anderson/Doughty
Bjornfot / Roy
Clarke / Faber
Spence

If this was Blake’s plan it’s pretty fair to say it was well thought out. You have what should be a strong top 9 lead by a still very good Kopitar and two top 5 pick centers who you should have expected would be very good impact players. The wing is still weak, but you can address it by trading Roy when you have two young stud RHD on ELC’s able to replace him.

You have plenty of opportunity for guys to move up the lineup too. Kopitar’s contract ends after next season, by then you hope he is your 3C or close to it, passing the torch to Byfield and Turcotte.

On D you can avoid paying Roy and also be prepared for the inevitable slow down of Doughty with the 2 young RHD’s. Anderson/Clarke is seen as a long-term #1 d-paid and your 1st rounder from 2019 in Bjornfot paired with your 2nd round steal from 2020 in Faber. But you still have time to let them grow as you still have probably 2-3 good years left from Doughty.

They probably had Cal pencilled in as their #1G, that was just a whiff.

But this all just fell apart because they’ve gotten almost nothing from the high draft picks like they (reasonably) should have hoped for. So they had to bring in Danault and lay him into his mid 30’s to play one of the C roles, and they had to bring in Gavrikov as a rental to be a LHD at the cost of a 1st. And they had to trade Faber and another 1st to address the scoring that hasn’t been provided from people they expected. With Faber gone it makes it very unlikely they could now trade Roy but due to the Danault and Gavrikov contracts it means they still likely lose Roy as a FA.

This is why the inability to get anything from two top 5 picks four and three years in has been crushing. If even one of those picks had been Stutzle or Zegras things look much different. I know people hate to talk about it, but it’s a big reason for the change in course Blake has had.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

I wouldn’t say he had no plan. It just likely didn’t come to fruition.

I think Blake’s original plan was to add high end young pieces through the draft for a final run with 11 and 8. The other option would have been to completely tear it down and trade 11 and 8. This is what myself and others such as bland and K17 wanted to do.

Unfortunately for Blake some key things didn’t work out as planned. Vilardi had injuries and struggled mightily when he did play. He came around this season but there was no way to know this when they brought in all of these other guys. An incredibly flukey 2018 season resulted in the Kings having the 20th pick instead of what should have been another top 10 one. Kupari is a nice 4th line PK guy but imagine this team with someone like Hughes. 2019 produced what four years later may be the worst pick in franchise history, over basically everyone else who have all developed into difference makers including the guy they debated taking. 2020 they had a decision on 2 guys and they guy they passed on is off to a Hall of Fame Caliber start.

After all this happened it was to late to try and get value for 11 and 8, so Blake went the DT strategy of trading for the things you couldn’t draft, trying to build a team through trades and FA signings.

I’m sure if Blake had those boxes DL had back around at the end of the 2019/2020 season, you probably have by the end of this current season and into next some combination of Kopitar, Byfield, Turcotte and Vilardi at C.

A defense of Doughty, Anderson, Roy, Faber, Bjornfot and Spence as the key pieces. You end up drafting another defenseman in 2021 which crowds things a bit but it also means you should have enough at RHD to let Roy go and use some of that money to hopefully be giving 1-2 of your young centers the type of deals that the elite young centers sign after their ELC’s. In the real world that’s not even close.

Give Blake the benefit of the doubt that his C strategy was as RJ says similar to MLB teams SS drafting where guys move to 3b or 2b. And that did happen in reality with Vilardi

Is it crazy to think something like this was the plan?

??? / Kopitar / Kempe
Iafallo/ Byfield/ Vilardi
Moore/ Turcotte / Kaliyev
?? / Lizotte / Kupari

Anderson/Doughty
Bjornfot / Roy
Clarke / Faber
Spence

If this was Blake’s plan it’s pretty fair to say it was well thought out. You have what should be a strong top 9 lead by a still very good Kopitar and two top 5 pick centers who you should have expected would be very good impact players. The wing is still weak, but you can address it by trading Roy when you have two young stud RHD on ELC’s able to replace him.

You have plenty of opportunity for guys to move up the lineup too. Kopitar’s contract ends after next season, by then you hope he is your 3C or close to it, passing the torch to Byfield and Turcotte.

On D you can avoid paying Roy and also be prepared for the inevitable slow down of Doughty with the 2 young RHD’s. Anderson/Clarke is seen as a long-term #1 d-paid and your 1st rounder from 2019 in Bjornfot paired with your 2nd round steal from 2020 in Faber. But you still have time to let them grow as you still have probably 2-3 good years left from Doughty.

They probably had Cal pencilled in as their #1G, that was just a whiff.

But this all just fell apart because they’ve gotten almost nothing from the high draft picks like they (reasonably) should have hoped for. So they had to bring in Danault and lay him into his mid 30’s to play one of the C roles, and they had to bring in Gavrikov as a rental to be a LHD at the cost of a 1st. And they had to trade Faber and another 1st to address the scoring that hasn’t been provided from people they expected. With Faber gone it makes it very unlikely they could now trade Roy but due to the Danault and Gavrikov contracts it means they still likely lose Roy as a FA.

This is why the inability to get anything from two top 5 picks four and three years in has been crushing. If even one of those picks had been Stutzle or Zegras things look much different. I know people hate to talk about it, but it’s a big reason for the change in course Blake has had.

I don't see it as crushing as you do, not saying you are wrong......but I don't think it drastically alters this franchise the way it is now.....

 

[Johnny Utah]

If Blake drafted Stutzle he wouldn’t have needed to trade Faber for Fiala. That was the big fail. Byfield has less goals than half the enforcers in the league.

 

[BigKing]

Just when was "then"? AK isn't even close to being a top line player. He has a shot and that's where it end. So who's spot was he good enough to take? Kempe, VA , Moore, Iafollo, Valardi...

He was better than Vilardi last season. You don't have VA if you are in full rebuild. Iafallo? Trade him instead of extending him. Trevor Moore? Sure. Guy has 82 total games of good tape and got a nice extension from it and hasn't been as good since. Is that because of injury? Hopefully but then we get to apply the same to Kaliyev.

The point is you are looking at it under the current win now roster when the argument is to get these guys the opportunity in an environment where mistakes don't lead to 8 minutes of ice time.

 

[KINGS17]

You aren't paying close enough attention.

Byfield and Vilardi have been shifted to wing because they weren't going to be ready enough up the middle to challenge for a playoff spot NOW.

Kaliyev won't be placed on a scoring unit yet because the rest of his game hasn't been fleshed out to challenge NOW.

Kupari has been told that in order to play on this team NOW he has to shift his focus to defense because they don't have room for him anywhere else.

Danault, Arvidsson, Fiala, Edler, Gavrikov and Korpisalo all brought in to challenge NOW while kids drafted to fill those spots are being held back or having their strengths mitigated because they aren't ready NOW - at the cost of multiple top picks and prospects.

Bjornfot is ready. Spence is ready. Where are they?

Kopitar and Doughty have been the top players on a team that has won just 4 playoff games in 8 years. They aren't going to challenge again. They aren't building blocks anymore, they are roadblocks to progress. Why in the world is mediocrity the goal here?

Mikey Anderson is the only prospect that this management group has developed to play and excel in the position he is best suited at. Everybody else has been adversely affected by the pursuit of something they do not have the ability to catch.

As Kings fans, we are paying for BLuc's lack of vision.

...and this time Luc's Daddy isn't going to be around to pick me up and throw me down a reactor shaft.

Kopitar and Doughty will leave the Kings without having won another cup, and probably not even another round in the playoffs.