Around the league part 2

[AbsentMojo]

man you know i just accidentally saw another higher quality video of the kick and realized i've been seeing it wrong all along, i thought he rolled over and backheeled him accidentally but this angle it looks like it was his left skate all along? jesus f***in christ if it was his left skate throw the book at this guy

Can u pass the link? Ive only seen a really grainy one - and it looked to me like an intentional karate type kick

 

[bland]

More force from Draisaitl as it was aiming downward, allowing him to put more weight on it, targeting the back of the knees, instead of sticking a leg out... sorry, you have to say why Kaliyev's is 4 games worse other than "absolutely."

Sure, because Kaliyev actively attempted to injure somebody by shooting his knee out and succeeded.

While Draisaitl's act may be more dastardly, its essentially just a crosscheck without any injury.

At some point we have to acknowledge the difference between what "is" and what "could have been".

 

[King'sPawn]

Sure, because Kaliyev actively attempted to injure somebody by shooting his knee out and succeeded.

While Draisaitl's act may be more dastardly, its essentially just a crosscheck without any injury.

At some point we have to acknowledge the difference between what "is" and what "could have been".

But we're punishing a result instead of an act. Draisaitl gets a lesser punishment for just being lucky that Horvat wasn't injured? That doesn't deter offenders - it just encourages offenders to do dirty shit towards protected areas and just play the odds that nobody gets hurt.

 

[tigermask48]

At some point we have to acknowledge the difference between what "is" and what "could have been".

That seems like it would eliminate "what was intended" from the equation though and that is the most important part.
Both were acts of frustration intended to blatantly injury. One succeeded, one didn't.

If the intent is to remove these plays from hockey then you cannot penalize the result.

 

[Buddy The Elf]

Re: Adam Johnson

I don't know British law but I don't see how you can possibly convict that guy? Sure it was reckless, dirty and i think he intended to use his leg to hurt the other player but how do you prove that in a court? To clarify, I don't think he intended to slice his throat but to trip him or kick him in the gut - obstruct him in some way.

The guy will have to live with this on his conscience the rest of his life unless he lacks a soul. The whole thing is really tragic.

Oh and Leon Draisaitl might be the biggest bitch in the NHL. He looks like Sponge Bob Square pants with his skinny little legs boxy upper torso.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Re: Adam Johnson

I don't know British law but I don't see how you can possibly convict that guy? Sure it was reckless, dirty and i think he intended to use his leg to hurt the other player but how do you prove that in a court? To clarify, I don't think he intended to slice his throat but to trip him or kick him in the gut - obstruct him in some way.

The guy will have to live with this on his conscience the rest of his life unless he lacks a soul. The whole thing is really tragic.

Don't need intent for manslaughter, all you need is....reckless.....

Don't like the fact that he was arrested or could face prison for it....but don't need intent.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

Who woulda thunk that the coach of the century would get fired before TM:

 

[Schrute farms]

Results driven league as far as discipline goes. If Horvat leaves the game injured, this "trip" is suddenly a "cross check" and Drai gets a couple games. Way it's been for years sadly.

So what you're saying is that if you get the chick pregnant, then the wife makes the punishment way more than just dishes for a week. No prego, no problem.

 

[Herby]

Todd loves Woodcroft more than Sutter loved Kyle Clifford.

If there is an opening on the Kings staff next season I think there is a very good chance they sign the brought to life wax sculpture to the staff.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Who woulda thunk that the coach of the century would get fired before TM:

View attachment 768175

King's!!!!

 

[Fishhead]

Interesting:

MSN - OT Rule Change Discussion

Guess they want OT to be full-on firewagon hockey.

 

[johnjm22]

I remember when Teemu Selanne got a speeding ticket for 39K.

In Finland, tickets aren't a set fine. The fine amount is based on a percentage of your income.

It should be the same way in the NHL. 1 percent of Leon's 8M salary is 80K. For a player making league minimum, 1 percent is 7.5K.

 

[Telos]

I didn't even think of the possibility of Woodcroft reunited with TMac, ugh. The only thing I'll say is while I don't really like the idea, he did get the short end of the stick being fired and taking the blame for this mess that has resulted from poor management decisions for a decade and his firing will do little to change things until the entire organization goes through an overhaul and better decisions are made concerning their roster.

 

[Axl Rhoadz]

I didn't even think of the possibility of Woodcroft reunited with TMac, ugh. The only thing I'll say is while I don't really like the idea, he did get the short end of the stick being fired and taking the blame for this mess that has resulted from poor management decisions for a decade and his firing will do little to change things until the entire organization goes through an overhaul and better decisions are made concerning their roster.

First of all, I'm in agreement with you about Woodcroft getting the short end of the stick -- but yet the majority of this board calls for TM's head after every loss, so I find that amusing. Nobody seems to pay enough attention to actual player performance.

As for as their roster -- is it that much different than last year?? Why do they need an overhaul? Last year, Ken Holland was a genius....basically same roster this year and now he's a bum. Gotta love it.

 

[Herby]

I remember when Teemu Selanne got a speeding ticket for 39K.

In Finland, tickets aren't a set fine. The fine amount is based on a percentage of your income.

It should be the same way in the NHL. 1 percent of Leon's 8M salary is 80K. For a player making league minimum, 1 percent is 7.5K.

Never going to happen.

The NHLPA has shown for decades that it is more concerned with the financial penalties that members get for injuring other members than they are about protecting innocent members from cheap shots.

Just like teacher and police unions, they are in place to defend the bad members at the expense of the good ones.

 

[tigermask48]

So what you're saying is that if you get the chick pregnant, then the wife makes the punishment way more than just dishes for a week. No prego, no problem.

Sadly that is the way the league seems to apply fines and suspensions.

Dustin Brown suspended 2 games | NHL.com

Brown suspended 2 games for elbowing

www.nhl.com

When this hit is deemed worse than what Drai did you've identified the problem with the system.
Is Brown's hit an elbow? 100%
Is Brown's hit reckless? Sure
Malicious and intentional? Not even a bit.
It's an unfortunate situation where Brown's elbow caught Pominville square in the face and an injury occurred.

Drai intentionally cross-checked Horvat's knee in an attempt to injure him in frustration.

Injury occurs, 2 games
No injury, a fine

All that matters to the player safety committee is the results.

 

[Bandit]

He won’t get named unless he is charged. If they thought he did it on purpose it’d be murder not manslaughter.



Just to add…

He’s arrested and will be under ‘caution’ which means he will likely have a lawyer and he will have been read his rights. Then the custody clock begins and they get 24hrs (IIRC) in custody to charge him , apply to a judge for an extension to the clock (not easy to get) or release him without charge. They can release him on ‘police bail’ to investigate further at which point the 24hr clock is paused until he goes back to the police station.

I mean I guess that makes sense but it not like there’s any question whose skate it was.

Re: Adam Johnson

I don't know British law but I don't see how you can possibly convict that guy? Sure it was reckless, dirty and i think he intended to use his leg to hurt the other player but how do you prove that in a court? To clarify, I don't think he intended to slice his throat but to trip him or kick him in the gut - obstruct him in some way.

The guy will have to live with this on his conscience the rest of his life unless he lacks a soul. The whole thing is really tragic.

Oh and Leon Draisaitl might be the biggest bitch in the NHL. He looks like Sponge Bob Square pants with his skinny little legs boxy upper torso.

Same way you could intend to only bump someone with your car going 5mph but they fall and you run over their head. Its the difference between manslaughter and murder.

 

[Buddy The Elf]

Don't need intent for manslaughter, all you need is....reckless.....

Don't like the fact that he was arrested or could face prison for it....but don't need intent.

No i get that but I think you have a hard time throwing someone in jail for a reckless play during a sporting event. It's a slippery slope and sets a bad precedent. I can understand the McSorley / Brashear thing. McSorley used his stick as a weapon.

Again, this is Britain not the US but if it were then you could see the likes of Matt Cooke or other career cheapshot artists being prosecuted. You can honestly make the argument that some of the head hunting in the NHL is far more reckless because the likelihood of sustaining a permanent injury is far greater. Getting your brains scrambled is a far more common occurrence than a skate to the jugular.

 

[Buddy The Elf]

Todd loves Woodcroft more than Sutter loved Kyle Clifford.

If there is an opening on the Kings staff next season I think there is a very good chance they sign the brought to life wax sculpture to the staff.

Haha... i always thought he looked like Butthead from Beavis and Butthead. He also looks like an old boss of mine who I couldn't stand either.

 

[King'sPawn]

I'm actually not sure Woodcroft would reunite l with TMac, for the following reasons:
- once someone starts getting a role as head coach, I think it's very rare that they accept returning to a "lesser"role as assistant
- Kings have Hiller to run the powerplay. And frankly, what role would he have?

I don't even think Woodcroft did too bad of a job with an atrocious roster. Edmonton is one of the organizations nobody should try to emulate.

 

[bland]

But we're punishing a result instead of an act. Draisaitl gets a lesser punishment for just being lucky that Horvat wasn't injured? That doesn't deter offenders - it just encourages offenders to do dirty shit towards protected areas and just play the odds that nobody gets hurt.

Well yeah.

Shoot somebody in the leg and it isn't attempted murder.

 

[bland]

That seems like it would eliminate "what was intended" from the equation though and that is the most important part.
Both were acts of frustration intended to blatantly injury. One succeeded, one didn't.

If the intent is to remove these plays from hockey then you cannot penalize the result.

I don't think Draisaitl is attempting to injure there, its just a pissy little bitch acting up. Its an unusual play to say the least, but penalizing someone for what could have happened jad things gone differently is not on par with something that DID injure someone.

Kaliyev got smoked, got up, skated straight at the next Duck he saw, the Duck attempted to get out of his way and Kaliyev thrust his knee out to make contact, injuring him in the process. The injury did and should lead to a more severe penalty.

They aren't comparable events.

 

[Statto]

Don't need intent for manslaughter, all you need is....reckless.....

Don't like the fact that he was arrested or could face prison for it....but don't need intent.

They pretty much have to arrest him to formally interview him. It sets in motion a whole bunch of stuff to ensure his rights are met and so forth. He’s not been charged. Decision to charge will be made by the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) who will ultimately decide if there is enough evidence of a crime, if there is enough evidence to prosecute and if prosecution is in the public interest. It’ll get passed to the CPS once the investigation by police concludes.

I’m not a UK legal guru by any means, but I’m very confident that this is the general way things are done. I’m sure there will be additional specifics I’ve missed.

 

[Statto]

No i get that but I think you have a hard time throwing someone in jail for a reckless play during a sporting event. It's a slippery slope and sets a bad precedent. I can understand the McSorley / Brashear thing. McSorley used his stick as a weapon.

Again, this is Britain not the US but if it were then you could see the likes of Matt Cooke or other career cheapshot artists being prosecuted. You can honestly make the argument that some of the head hunting in the NHL is far more reckless because the likelihood of sustaining a permanent injury is far greater. Getting your brains scrambled is a far more common occurrence than a skate to the jugular.

They’ll have to decide if he intended to kick out at him. I’m not sure how they prove that but he has form for being reckless with his feet/skates apparently. They may come into it. There is probably better footage available than the grainy video that is out there , including the official game video (i don’t know that to be 100% true but most games are formally taped over here with better quality than the footage i saw of it).

 

[chris kontos]

The chances of the nhl significantly fineing or suspending a star quality player like draisaital are about the same as me winning the lotto. The leauge doesnt want to eliminate cheap shots- just the ones commited by insignificant 4th line players