Around the league part 2

[Herby]

Not sure how breach of contract is a minor issue, especially if Lombardi was about to bite the bullet and make a trade. Not to mention the Kings are still paying for it.

How is that the same as teams gaming the LTIR system like:
- Hossa's allergy
- Stone's injury
- Datsyuk and countless others being traded to Arizona despite no intention of playing them?

They would not have done it for any other player on the team. And what he did was not worthy of losing out on tens of millions in salary.

The difference is in the Kings case their cap circumvention was going to take money out of someone’s pocket, tens of millions of dollars, and they were going to face legal objection for it, all these other ones the players still got paid so there is nobody to fight it. Remember the NHL supported the Kings. As long as the cap circumvention is within the rules of the CBA the NHL is going to support the teams, even when it’s obvious to everyone else like Kane, Stone, Richards, the Coyotes stuff.

I don’t include Hossa, he was still a very good player, worthy of his contract, who didn’t want to retire. He just couldn’t play anymore.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

They would not have done it for any other player on the team. And what he did was not worthy of losing out on tens of millions in salary.

The difference is in the Kings case their cap circumvention was going to take money out of someone’s pocket, tens of millions of dollars, and they were going to face legal objection for it, all these other ones the players still got paid so there is nobody to fight it. Remember the NHL supported the Kings. As long as the cap circumvention is within the rules of the CBA the NHL is going to support the teams, even when it’s obvious to everyone else like Kane, Stone, Richards, the Coyotes stuff.

I don’t include Hossa, he was still a very good player, worthy of his contract, who didn’t want to retire. He just couldn’t play anymore.

The Kings getting out of the Richards deal didn't allow them to bring in a superstar-level for the playoffs like the LTIR circumvention around the cap limit for Kucherov, Stone, Kane, etc. did.

To me, that's why there's a vast qualitative difference between the Richards breach-of-contract issue and the manipulation of LTIR to allow teams to egregiously exceed the yearly salary cap level in the playoffs.

 

[Sol]

I’m glad to see that us fans have little hope at least, can’t be let down when you are starting from below. If they do great and make some big moves then we will actually have a reason to be optimistic.

 

[BigKing]

Or the 2015-2016 Kings.

There was quite a bit of outrage on these forums from other teams when the Kings, while still in contender mode, attempted to get out from the worst contract in the league on what was a very minor issue.

Everyone should have to be cap compliant, or going over the cap only by adding players making less than a certain number ($1.5m) which would allow black aces to still be called up.

The Richards fiasco was a way of getting out of a bad contract whereas the under the cap due to LTIR at the trade deadline is a way of adding players you wouldn't be able to fit and then getting back a player you actually want off of LTIR.

Not the same thing but I do agree with your premise that we wouldn't give two shits if the Kings were taking advantage of the loophole. Vegas fans don't care. Tamps fans certainly don't and neither do Hawks fans. I mean, Vermette wasn't very good for them in the '15 regular season after the trade but I'm pretty sure he scored a GWG in the SCF.

The King's benefited from cap circumventing contracts like Richards & Carter's. Lombardi was on a mission to cram as much talent as possible into the window. Still making payments on that.

Those contracts were league standard though with the loophole closed in the next CBA. This LTIR could be league standard as well since the loophole is open for all to take advantage but it is a lot tougher to pull off. It almost exclusively gets used by good teams since it has to be a team that is a buyer v. the cap circumventing contracts that were used by every team in the league.

 

[Bandit]

The Richards fiasco was a way of getting out of a bad contract whereas the under the cap due to LTIR at the trade deadline is a way of adding players you wouldn't be able to fit and then getting back a player you actually want off of LTIR.

Not the same thing but I do agree with your premise that we wouldn't give two shits if the Kings were taking advantage of the loophole. Vegas fans don't care. Tamps fans certainly don't and neither do Hawks fans. I mean, Vermette wasn't very good for them in the '15 regular season after the trade but I'm pretty sure he scored a GWG in the SCF.

Those contracts were league standard though with the loophole closed in the next CBA. This LTIR could be league standard as well since the loophole is open for all to take advantage but it is a lot tougher to pull off. It almost exclusively gets used by good teams since it has to be a team that is a buyer v. the cap circumventing contracts that were used by every team in the league.

It’s a loophole only in so much that you need to have a big contract guy get “injured”.

 

[Shellz]

Damn. Seattle just leaving their goalie out. He’s been playing so well.

 

[jgs]

Awesome series between the Kraken and Stars, Stars came out on top. But the Kraken will be a stronger force next year.

 

[Nasti]

They would not have done it for any other player on the team.

That’s standard practice at any job. A guy making a company millions will get a slap on the wrist if he’s naughty vs a guy who was already a problem and the company just needed an excuse to fire him.

 

[lumbergh]

One thing that I think has been ignored in the midst of all the pessimism around here is that the two teams ahead of the Kings in the division are in cap hell this offseason. The Oilers and Golden Knights are top-heavy and will struggle to return a team equal in quality next season.

According to CapFriendly, the Oilers have ~$6M in cap space with 17 players signed, which sounds okay if they just sign six players at near league minimum. Unfortunately, their RFAs are Ryan McLeod, Klim Kostin, and most importantly Evan Bouchard. They may not even be able to sign these three with the room available. They can't lose Bouchard, obviously. Ekholm is a very good player, but he eats any and all cap space they had left.

Situation is just as bad for Vegas. ~$3.46M of cap space with 20 players signed. Of course they're carrying extra contracts right now, but what happens when Robin Lehner comes back from injury? No room at all to bring back Barbashev, who has been one of their better players.

Both of these teams went all in this season. They may pay for it in 2023-24. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Kings pass these two teams next year.

 

[Nasti]

One thing that I think has been ignored in the midst of all the pessimism around here is that the two teams ahead of the Kings in the division are in cap hell this offseason. The Oilers and Golden Knights are top-heavy and will struggle to return a team equal in quality next season.

According to CapFriendly, the Oilers have ~$6M in cap space with 17 players signed, which sounds okay if they just sign six players at near league minimum. Unfortunately, their RFAs are Ryan McLeod, Klim Kostin, and most importantly Evan Bouchard. They may not even be able to sign these three with the room available. They can't lose Bouchard, obviously. Ekholm is a very good player, but he eats any and all cap space they had left.

Situation is just as bad for Vegas. ~$3.46M of cap space with 20 players signed. Of course they're carrying extra contracts right now, but what happens when Robin Lehner comes back from injury? No room at all to bring back Barbashev, who has been one of their better players.

Both of these teams went all in this season. They may pay for it in 2023-24. I wouldn't be surprised to see the Kings pass these two teams next year.

Stone will trip and hurt his back over the summer so they can LTIR him again.

 

[AbsentMojo]

One thing that I think has been ignored in the midst of all the pessimism around here is that the two teams ahead of the Kings in the division are in cap hell this offseason. The Oilers and Golden Knights are top-heavy and will struggle to return a team equal in quality next season.

Kings have about the same cap issues - and a roster with bigger holes than they acknowledge... its a dumpster a fire.

-- separate post
Fun fact: 3 of the 4 remaining teams are in states w no state income tax... would like to know if there is correlation there

 

[jgs]

Ray Ferraro on the Hockey channel brought up that if the Leafs received a valid offer for Matthews that Dubas is on record as saying he would consider it. Then what got my attention is that Ray Ferraro mention that LA Kings is the team that could make this offer for Matthews. And he mentioned Kopitars as being involved in the offer. Have any of you heard anything on this and which players would be offered to Toronto. Personally if there is any truth to this i think it would cost LA way too much to get Matthews.

 

[Herby]

Game winning goal scored by 20 year old (as of yesterday) Wyatt Johnston. Who scored 24 times this season as a 19 year old, for a Stanley Cup contender without spending a second in the AHL. His GWG tonight came with him on the ice late in the 3rd protecting a one-goal lead.

He’s 9 months younger than QB and 3 months younger than Clarke.

Good thing Dallas wasn’t afraid to burn a year on his ELC or force him to learn the system for the Texas Stars.

 

[JTeller97]

Ray Ferraro on the Hockey channel brought up that if the Leafs received a valid offer for Matthews that Dubas is on record as saying he would consider it. Then what got my attention is that Ray Ferraro mention that LA Kings is the team that could make this offer for Matthews. And he mentioned Kopitars as being involved in the offer. Have any of you heard anything on this and which players would be offered to Toronto. Personally if there is any truth to this i think it would cost LA way too much to get Matthews.

I think he views LA as a fit for Matthews when he's a free agent as Kopitars contract ends at the same time.



It starts at the 8:30 mark

 

[Herby]

Unless Matthews is pulling a Cryin Ryan Smyth and straight up lying to everyone, you have to figure the Leafs are going to re-sign him if he’s open to it.

The guy has a higher career goals-per-game than Ovechkin and will be entering his age 26 season.

 

[johnjm22]

Miro Heiskanen played 32:07 tonight. In a non-OT game.

 

[bouncesonly]

Ray Ferraro on the Hockey channel brought up that if the Leafs received a valid offer for Matthews that Dubas is on record as saying he would consider it. Then what got my attention is that Ray Ferraro mention that LA Kings is the team that could make this offer for Matthews. And he mentioned Kopitars as being involved in the offer. Have any of you heard anything on this and which players would be offered to Toronto. Personally if there is any truth to this i think it would cost LA way too much to get Matthews.

As much fun as it is to speculate Matthews in LA, Toronto would be idiotic to let him walk, even for assets, which the Kings have none

 

[johnjm22]

Unless Matthews is pulling a Cryin Ryan Smyth and straight up lying to everyone, you have to figure the Leafs are going to re-sign him if he’s open to it.

The guy has a higher career goals-per-game than Ovechkin and will be entering his age 26 season.

Hard to know if what he says in the media is just him being PC or not.

The way he had his last contract structured doesn't exactly suggest loyalty.

His NMC kicks in on July 1st. That could put the Leafs in a tough spot if they haven't received clarity from his camp on whether or not he intends to re-sign.

 

[FSL KINGS]

Keep going over the roster & looking at the options. There's not enough cap to fix the Center, Goal & D issues. Signing Gavrikov makes the cap tight. Moving Cal doesn't free up space because the new starter is going to suck up whatever is freed. King's need a center, but it's pretty clear they need a 1C at this point as Kopi is getting older & no replacements.

Doughty for Mathews.

Center is fixed.
D is fine
Trade Cal for a starter with some assets.

Gavrikov, Roy
Mikey, Clarke
Durzi, Spence, Björnfot, some Oger.

 

[Herby]

You aren’t getting Matthews for Doughty, even with Matthews on an expiring contract. The time to trade Doughty for a big return has long passed. We are stuck with that contract.

 

[BigBrown]

I still call BS on Hossa. First look at the salary year by year and guess which year he retired:

Yes you are correct, the year he started making peanuts. What a remarkable coincidence. While I do believe he has a real health issue I'm convinced he would have kept playing if his salary was still 7.9M.

I put this in the same category as the teams having guys on IR until the playoffs.

 

[Statto]

I still call BS on Hossa. First look at the salary year by year and guess which year he retired:

Yes you are correct, the year he started making peanuts. What a remarkable coincidence. While I do believe he has a real health issue I'm convinced he would have kept playing if his salary was still 7.9M.

I put this in the same category as the teams having guys on IR until the playoffs.

You say that but he’d have been paid no matter what his salary was.

 

[BigBrown]

You say that but he’d have been paid no matter what his salary was.

Alright that is a fair point since he did go on IR at first.

 

[KingsFan7824]

The Kings did the LTIR nonsense with Gaborik in 15-16. Didn't work. Nothing worked after they sold their soul to Satan after Game 3 against SJ in 2014 in order to win one more time, but the Kings have been guilty of cap games too. Still find the Richards thing funny. If he was still a viable player at the time, even just a $5m 3rd line checker, we never hear about his border incident. But he could no longer play, and it turned into a whole giant legal court battle. Life pro tip; never get lost within sexy eyes in a Canadian cabin on a sweet early summer evening. Just not worth it.

At least Dallas has a chance to beat Vegas. The Knights did their job against Edm, but that's enough. I don't care about who wins between the other 3.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Game winning goal scored by 20 year old (as of yesterday) Wyatt Johnston. Who scored 24 times this season as a 19 year old, for a Stanley Cup contender without spending a second in the AHL. His GWG tonight came with him on the ice late in the 3rd protecting a one-goal lead.

He’s 9 months younger than QB and 3 months younger than Clarke.

Good thing Dallas wasn’t afraid to burn a year on his ELC or force him to learn the system for the Texas Stars.

Good thing ALL prospects develop the SAME...on a LINEAR path....

At least now we know.....right?