Around The League 40: As we barrel towards 40 teams

[bleedgreen]

That still so incredibly risky to base your entire viable competitive window on a prospect who you hope will blossom into a player you desperately need him to be. In an ideal state, they have one or two stopgap solutions in place to hold them over between now and then, ideally with an overlap so that there's a failsafe already in place in case he's not everything they hope.

Instead, all the resources they'd typically give to that failsafe went to more offensive firepower. And there's enough long term contracts there that they better wish they didn't back themselves into a corner because there won't be many easy outs other than pulling off some trades.

Are we not basing too much on Nikishin ourselves? There’s no reason to think our team building plans work better than the Devils, you get the high picks you get and you draft the best players possible. Their plan and signings have made total sense for them. Our own owner says you can buy defense. We don’t draft for defense at all anymore, we’re riding the guys we took before as far as we can with one guy maybe coming over at some point to replace any of them. Morrow is a big question mark.

Between Hughes, Nemec and Casey it seems like they’re better off than we are on the back end? We have two maybes and then we’re at at best B- level prospects. We don’t have a single defenseman signed past next season.

Is that not at the very least similar risky behavior?

I don’t think we’re so good that we should be looking down on other teams. They’re doing the same thing as us imo, getting the best players they can when they’re available. We wanted Meier as much as they did, so it’s weird to criticize them for getting him. They need wingers for their star centers. There aren’t a ton of good goalies out there to get as we know.

I don’t think they’re a paper tiger as much as a young team a year or two behind us. They’re already deeper than the Oilers imo so I don’t see the comparison. They don’t have any contracts like the Mcdavid one. Hamilton is a much better player than Nurse imo. Hughes and Hischier are on very good contracts. I don’t know that they’re the team I’d knock.

 

[Horatio Cane]

Scary when a stick gets caught in the cage! I’ve had that happen in games I’ve reffed a few times. I’ve had someone slide a stick in there and right back out a couple of times with minimal damage somehow. Like you said it was too quick to do anything. The last time I had stitches (the last time before I finally kept a cage on) the doc and I had a talk about my past and when forced to recall as much as I could I counted 30-40 stitches to my face related to sticks and pucks over the years. The close calls with the skates didn’t lead to a cut, there was one time with a cage on where it would’ve. I’ve landed face first on top of skates a couple of times. Laces taste awful.

Based on my personal playing experiences and the years I’ve spent at the rink coaching/reffing and seeing what happens to everyone else it’s 100% appropriate to force people to wear neck guards. We used to have to when I was in high school but they let me get away with wearing a headband around my neck! So at one point or another many places have forced such equipment and there’s no game impedance for anyone to complain about other than it’s less cozy than not wearing them.

Old school arm gear featured long cuff gloves that overlapped elbow pads with long forearm pads.

I used to wear a full shield until I switched to a cage.

My close call was a guy was going hard to the net on an angle and my defensive partner got tangled up with him causing him to cartwheel across the front of me. His blade hit my shield before I even knew it was happening and it left a scrape on it so bad it was unusable. I can't imagine the damage that would have been done without the full face protection and it was probably only a few inches from a fatal neck injury.

 

[Svechhammer]

Are we not basing too much on Nikishin ourselves? There’s no reason to think our team building plans work better than the Devils, you get the high picks you get and you draft the best players possible. Their plan and signings have made total sense for them. Our own owner says you can buy defense. We don’t draft for defense at all anymore, we’re riding the guys we took before as far as we can with one guy maybe coming over at some point to replace any of them. Morrow is a big question mark.

Between Hughes, Nemec and Casey it seems like they’re better off than we are on the back end? We have two maybes and then we’re at at best B- level prospects. We don’t have a single defenseman signed past next season.

Is that not at the very least similar risky behavior?

I don’t think we’re so good that we should be looking down on other teams. They’re doing the same thing as us imo, getting the best players they can when they’re available. We wanted Meier as much as they did, so it’s weird to criticize them for getting him. They need wingers for their star centers. There aren’t a ton of good goalies out there to get as we know.

I don’t think they’re a paper tiger as much as a young team a year or two behind us. They’re already deeper than the Oilers imo so I don’t see the comparison. They don’t have any contracts like the Mcdavid one. Hamilton is a much better player than Nurse imo. Hughes and Hischier are on very good contracts. I don’t know that they’re the team I’d knock.

We still have Slavin and possibly Skjei or Pesce and have bridged the gap with Orlov

So no, I don't think our situation is that similar

 

[bleedgreen]

We still have Slavin and possibly Skjei or Pesce and have bridged the gap with Orlov

So no, I don't think our situation is that similar

We have no defenseman signed after next year. That’s what I said. Including Slavin, Pesce or Orlov. That’s a risk. That’s what I said made our situations similar in that we are taking risks too, not that we have any similarities in how we built our teams? You said their plan was risky, I’m saying our plan is risky too so I’m not sure what you’re getting at there.

You said they were risky basing hopes on one guy (Nemec) when they already have Hughes as well as Hamilton. We don’t have a single guy signed past next year and that’s when we hope Nikishin is coming and we have no idea how he’ll do. That’s all we have, other than Morrow. That’s way riskier defensive planning than having Hamilton, Hughes and Nemec is it not?

 

[NotOpie]

We still have Slavin and possibly Skjei or Pesce and have bridged the gap with Orlov

So no, I don't think our situation is that similar

....and we have several lottery tickets in the system. Guys like Heimosalmi, Pelevin, Seeley, and Nystrom are still works in progress. Other guys like Honka and Forsmark are showing real promise. Add in wild cards like Fensore, Grudinin, and Legault and I'd say we're in much better shape than New Jersey. That's not even considering guys like Keane and Reunanen who are both showing well overseas.

My sense is that our pool is deeper at both the high end and throughout.

 

[DaveG]

We have no defenseman signed after next year. That’s what I said. Including Slavin, Pesce or Orlov. That’s a risk. That’s what I said made our situations similar in that we are taking risks too, not that we have any similarities in how we built our teams? You said their plan was risky, I’m saying our plan is risky too so I’m not sure what you’re getting at there.

You said they were risky basing hopes on one guy (Nemec) when they already have Hughes as well as Hamilton. We don’t have a single guy signed past next year and that’s when we hope Nikishin is coming and we have no idea how he’ll do. That’s all we have, other than Morrow. That’s way riskier defensive planning than having Hamilton, Hughes and Nemec is it not?

I mean that all comes down to on if we can extend 2 of Slavin, Pesce, Skjei, and Chatfield really. If we can't sign any of them? Yeah, we're boned, but I don't think that's going to be the result. Definitely would have preferred to see movement on getting one of the latter 3 done before the season to cement things.

 

[bleedgreen]

I mean that all comes down to on if we can extend 2 of Slavin, Pesce, Skjei, and Chatfield really. If we can't sign any of them? Yeah, we're boned, but I don't think that's going to be the result. Definitely would have preferred to see movement on getting one of the latter 3 done before the season to cement things.

Oh I don’t think that’ll be the result either. Not intentionally anyways. The guys may individually choose greener pastures though. A few key guys leaving could force them to overpay others to stay then we’d have a rough contract or two or we’d really be starting from scratch.

It’s a risk though, is it not? Not having a single guy signed? Flexibility galore of course but still risk.

Which is what I said. SH says NJ’s tactic of going offensive heavy is risky. I’m saying our tactic is also risky, and neither tactic has any proof of being the right way. Also I think they aren’t as screwed defensively as what’s being implied, and they’re better on paper than Edm both now and the future imo. They also have on paper a stronger future than we do on the back end.

 

[bleedgreen]

....and we have several lottery tickets in the system. Guys like Heimosalmi, Pelevin, Seeley, and Nystrom are still works in progress. Other guys like Honka and Forsmark are showing real promise. Add in wild cards like Fensore, Grudinin, and Legault and I'd say we're in much better shape than New Jersey. That's not even considering guys like Keane and Reunanen who are both showing well overseas.

My sense is that our pool is deeper at both the high end and throughout.

I don’t see how you can say anything we have is better than both Hughes and Nemec, so it’s hard to agree about the high end. They also have Casey. Every guy you listed as a lottery ticket is about as long shot-ish as an actual lottery ticket. Everyone has prospects showing promise in the lower levels. Out of all the guys you listed, if two of them wear the jersey at all let alone stick around long term we’ll have done really well. Heimosalmi should get a look at some point if he hangs around long enough to get Rod to trust him. Honka is pretty iffy with Rod imo. Seeley may still be a couple of years away from a real shot.

 

[Svechhammer]

We have no defenseman signed after next year. That’s what I said. Including Slavin, Pesce or Orlov. That’s a risk. That’s what I said made our situations similar in that we are taking risks too, not that we have any similarities in how we built our teams? You said their plan was risky, I’m saying our plan is risky too so I’m not sure what you’re getting at there.

You said they were risky basing hopes on one guy (Nemec) when they already have Hughes as well as Hamilton. We don’t have a single guy signed past next year and that’s when we hope Nikishin is coming and we have no idea how he’ll do. That’s all we have, other than Morrow. That’s way riskier defensive planning than having Hamilton, Hughes and Nemec is it not?

I'll worry about that if the situation comes and they all leave. But I also don't at all believe that will be the case, Slavin will be locked up, and I do believe that at least one of Skjei, Pesce and Orlov will extend as well. Their style is our identity. We know this, and we're going to make sure it remains like that going forward. We're just not going to pay stupid money to keep it around.

 

[NotOpie]

I don’t see how you can say anything we have is better than both Hughes and Nemec, so it’s hard to agree about the high end. They also have Casey. Every guy you listed as a lottery ticket is about as long shot-ish as an actual lottery ticket. Everyone has prospects showing promise in the lower levels. Out of all the guys you listed, if two of them wear the jersey at all let alone stick around long term we’ll have done really well. Heimosalmi should get a look at some point if he hangs around long enough to get Rod to trust him. Honka is pretty iffy with Rod imo. Seeley may still be a couple of years away from a real shot.

Luke Hughes is a one-dimensional offensive defenseman who was exposed in spades during the playoffs. Personally, I think he's one of the more overrated young players in the league.

Nemec and Casey are both very good. But I'd take Nikishin and Morrow over that pair any day....size, offense, skill....Casey's not much bigger than Fensore. Nikishin is one of the best defensemen in the 2nd best league in the world and Morrow's game, by his coach's own admission has become well-rounded and he's still more than a point per game player.

I think you're underselling Honka and, like many, Simon Forsmark is getting totally ignored. Both those guys are showing well playing against men.

Look, I know I'm a bit of a pollyanna homer, but you're totally underselling the defensive assets we have in our system. As I said, I believe we're better at the top end and significantly deeper on the back end.

 

[bleedgreen]

Luke Hughes is a one-dimensional offensive defenseman who was exposed in spades during the playoffs. Personally, I think he's one of the more overrated young players in the league.

Nemec and Casey are both very good. But I'd take Nikishin and Morrow over that pair any day....size, offense, skill....Casey's not much bigger than Fensore. Nikishin is one of the best defensemen in the 2nd best league in the world and Morrow's game, by his coach's own admission has become well-rounded and he's still more than a point per game player.

I think you're underselling Honka and, like many, Simon Forsmark is getting totally ignored. Both those guys are showing well playing against men.

Look, I know I'm a bit of a pollyanna homer, but you're totally underselling the defensive assets we have in our system. As I said, I believe we're better at the top end and significantly deeper on the back end.

I’m underselling our prospects in general due to watching this team and its prospects seemingly my whole life. And all the other teams as I’ve been a nerd about prospects for a long time. The data kind of speaks for itself. We’ve drafted a lot of late round picks, very few of them ever make it. The ones at the higher end of the draft list often don’t make it. We made moves to acquire a lot of extra picks in rounds that usually mostly prove fruitless. I don’t consider that significantly more depth than the Devils or anyone else. Good for us for having more darts in nonproductive rounds because you never know and it’s the covid years so the chances are better than normal. Sure. I buy it. Still am not expecting a significant influx from it. Hopefully we get a couple of depth guys out of it.

Honka is small and offensive minded, and will likely have to work himself up from the third pair. It’s hard to see Rod going that way, I’ve been impressed he’s been tolerating Tony on that pair. I just don’t think we’re the best team for Honka to break in on.

Luke Hughes was playing his first ten games in the NHL when he was “exposed”. They’re playing him on the first pp this year already. I think you’re underselling him far more drastically and to much deeper affect than I am with…..Honka.

Hughes and Nemec would rank higher than Nikishin and Morrow with anyone other than the most Pollyanna of Pollyanna’s. Those two are going to play in the NHL for the Devils, one of them is already an impact player. Our two have no true timetable to wear the jersey and we have nothing to rate them against as the KHL and the NCAA are notoriously difficult leagues to evaluate future NHL success with.

I want Forsmark to be more than Sellgren or any other euro who looks like he can make it, but until something different happens I’m not getting excited about it. Or getting into pissing contests with jersey fans that our prospect depth is better than theirs. As always we’ll see who makes it and enjoy the journey. I just think it’s silly to call the Devils risk takers and us not the same.

 

[bleedgreen]

I'll worry about that if the situation comes and they all leave. But I also don't at all believe that will be the case, Slavin will be locked up, and I do believe that at least one of Skjei, Pesce and Orlov will extend as well. Their style is our identity. We know this, and we're going to make sure it remains like that going forward. We're just not going to pay stupid money to keep it around.

But it’s a risk. Which is the point.

 

[BadgerCane58]

I really like Fensore. I know he’s tiny, very tiny. He continues to produce and isn’t a liability. He’s smart, a leader, and is very fast. I’m hoping his latest promotion to the Wolves continues his growth. Whether he can handle an 80+ schedule will be an important factor going forward.

 

[chaz4hockey]

18 with his first missed grade a chance.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

NJ even with Hughes, Nico and Meier out, still making Pittsburgh “defense” look silly

 

[Unsustainable]

Laine would be a good target I think

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Laine would be a good target I think

Laine is benched by a really bad team and he would be a good target with a cap hit of 9 million?

 

[Unsustainable]

Laine is benched by a really bad team and he would be a good target with a cap hit of 9 million

3y at 8.7m

Would be a buy low, and then get him in a good system, he would have KK and Aho to help.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

3y at 8.7m

Would be a buy low, and then get him in a good system, he would have KK and Aho to help.

That is a heck if an expensive buy low for a guy who can’t stay healthy, doesn’t play defense, and doesn’t look dangerous to score.

Add in that 8.7 million will put a real dent in our cap space with Jarvis, Necas and our entire defense needing re-upping.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

Laine would be a good target I think

For a cheap reclamation project when he crashes and burns in the UFA market in a couple of years, you mean?

 

[Joe McGrath]

That is a heck if an expensive buy low for a guy who can’t stay healthy, doesn’t play defense, and doesn’t look dangerous to score.

Add in that 8.7 million will put a real dent in our cap space with Jarvis, Necas and our entire defense needing re-upping.

Yeah they already have a much cheaper version of that in Necas.

It would drastically improve the power play just to have his shot as a threat on the left side. Way too expensive though.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Yeah they already have a much cheaper version of that in Necas.

It would drastically improve the power play just to have his shot as a threat on the left side. Way too expensive though.

His shot would be great but 1 dimensional players should be paid like 1 dimensional players. Like TDA at 1.6 million or under is fine.

He will be our resident 4th line 5v5 guy making almost 9 million. He is skinner without the need to try to steal pucks in the O zone

 

[Svechhammer]

I mean with Staal and Brindy banging the drum about guys not buying into the system, Laine definitely strikes me as the perfect kind of add to improve that situation

 

[chaz4hockey]

Wow @ this goaltending play:

 

[Blueline Bomber]

New response gif just dropped: