Around The League 40: As we barrel towards 40 teams

[Unhinged Finn]

You know what's funny? I got slapped with a warning for posting that tweet above on the General Hockey Discussion forum.

Bunch of fricken prudes

For what? Dicking around?

 

[Unsustainable]

For what? Dicking around?

They dont like us beating around the bush for sure.

 

[Svechhammer]

For what? Dicking around?

I think my message went over their head

 

[Derailed75]

They dont like us beating around the bush for sure.

Maybe he wasnt beating around the bush. Maybe he was in the bush or just beating it. Either way I can see how they might take offense to that.

 

[Cardiac Jerks]

Petgrave arrested for manslaughter. Wtf.

Adam Johnson: Manslaughter arrest over ice hockey player's death

A man is held in connection with the death of Nottingham Panthers player Adam Johnson.

www.bbc.com

 

[Chrispy]

Petgrave arrested for manslaughter. Wtf.

Adam Johnson: Manslaughter arrest over ice hockey player's death

A man is held in connection with the death of Nottingham Panthers player Adam Johnson.

www.bbc.com

I can't decide whether Espen Knutsen or Derek Morris be the nervous one right now?

 

[DaveG]

I can't decide whether Espen Knutsen or Derek Morris be the nervous one right now?

had completely forgotten that Morris was the other player involved in that one.

 

[Chrispy]

On the more serious side, I watched this once. I don't know why, but I did.

I saw a completely out of control player in Petgrave after losing his balance and almost certainly hitting a rut in the ice. (Edit: reading the main board it appears Petgrave's skate hit another player's skate which caused him to go airborne. Like I said, didn't watch it multiple times.)

I don't see how someone kicks their leg like that intentionally; it looked like it was uncontrolled response like that Jack Hughes blooper.

I don't think he was trying to leg whip or trip Johnson or anything like that.

 

[VaCaps Fan]

I thought he was just trying to block him and completely screwed up.

 

[DaveG]

On the more serious side, I watched this once. I don't know why, but I did.

I saw a completely out of control player in Petgrave after losing his balance and almost certainly hitting a rut in the ice. I don't see how someone kicks their leg like that intentionally; it looked like it was uncontrolled response like that Jack Hughes blooper.

I don't think he was trying to leg whip or trip Johnson or anything like that.

Yeah I just don't get the angle where people are coming from where they say that's not a natural movement so it has to be deliberate. I mean really? No exaggeration but I've been sent into a full on f***ing front flip when playing soccer when someone on the other team catches me just right on a tackle when I'm going at or close to full sprint, and it's not like that was a one-time thing either. I mean are they really suggesting that's assault if someone just so happens to get clipped by my cleats? Because that's the essence of this whole argument.

 

[Chrispy]

Yeah I just don't get the angle where people are coming from where they say that's not a natural movement so it has to be deliberate. I mean really? No exaggeration but I've been sent into a full on f***ing front flip when playing soccer when someone on the other team catches me just right on a tackle when I'm going at or close to full sprint, and it's not like that was a one-time thing either. I mean are they really suggesting that's assault if someone just so happens to get clipped by my cleats? Because that's the essence of this whole argument.

Clips of soccer players doing those types of moves after a trip or a tackle will almost certainly be part of the defense to bring it into a sport the jury is more familiar with.

 

[Daeavorn]

Putting intent aside, i am not surprised that he is being taken in for manslaughter. Englands legal system, while similar to ours in a lot of ways, is very different in others.

If he did that here it would be different.

 

[Svechhammer]

With all due respect, if I was a player in England right now, I'd think long and hard about lacing up for the next game if I knew a routine play going horrifically bad could end up with me in jail.

 

[SlavinAway]

With all due respect, if I was a player in England right now, I'd think long and hard about lacing up for the next game if I knew a routine play going horrifically bad could end up with me in jail.

I don't think I would call it a routine play though. Absolutely don't think he wanted to kill Johnson but it was completely reckless and led to a death so manslaughter makes sense. No idea how it will play out in the end; details right now only say Petgrave has been arrested, no official charges yet that I've seen.

Here's a prior clip of Petgrave pulling the move I think he was trying with Johnson.

 

[cptjeff]

With all due respect, if I was a player in England right now, I'd think long and hard about lacing up for the next game if I knew a routine play going horrifically bad could end up with me in jail.

Agreed. Absolutely insane.

Any sport has inherent risks. You can't charge players with manslaughter if a freak accident occurs. And yes, he hasn't been charged, but unless the UK system is radically different, an arrest means a charge is likely coming.

 

[bleedgreen]

The first video was grainy and it looked like he was upended on a check that kind of flipped him into Johnson. If you go look for the video now you find a much clearer video. I know we all tend to see what we want to see in these clips, but I was firmly in the “it has to be an accident” crowd. Watching the current video makes it difficult to defend him. He wasnt knocked in the air by the first hit. He is looking right at Johnson and clearly kicks his left leg out. I now believe 100% he kicked him with intent to do so, though I’m sure he didn’t mean to kick him so high and kill him of course. Manslaughter is appropriate imo.

I can’t believe I’ve gone a full 180 on it but the video speaks for itself.

 

[Blueline Bomber]

Agreed. Absolutely insane.

Any sport has inherent risks. You can't charge players with manslaughter if a freak accident occurs. And yes, he hasn't been charged, but unless the UK system is radically different, an arrest means a charge is likely coming.

To my understanding, the UK system is different. An arrest in thr UK isn’t the same as an arrest in the US. An arrest in the UK is the equivalent of “called in for questioning” in the US. The biggest thing I pulled was there are a couple reasons that could fit why Petgraves might be arrested, but not charged:

- To prevent causing physical injury to yourself or any other person – for example, if you’ve already been violent and it’s likely you may assault others if you’re not arrested

- To prevent suffering physical injury yourself – for example, if your behaviour might provoke others to assault you, so you need to be arrested for your own protection

- If the officer believes that their investigation will be delayed unreasonably if you’re not arrested. For example, if they need to interview you or collect evidence from you, but don’t believe that you’ll come to the police station voluntarily.

- If the officer believes that they won’t be able to find you later. For example, if the address you gave is temporary accommodation which you might leave before they get back in contact with you.

The latter two make sense, if Petgraves is still playing on the team, it might be difficult to contact him in a reasonable time if that team travels

The first video was grainy and it looked like he was upended on a check that kind of flipped him into Johnson. If you go look for the video now you find a much clearer video. I know we all tend to see what we want to see in these clips, but I was firmly in the “it has to be an accident” crowd. Watching the current video makes it difficult to defend him. He wasnt knocked in the air by the first hit. He is looking right at Johnson and clearly kicks his left leg out. I now believe 100% he kicked him with intent to do so, though I’m sure he didn’t mean to kick him so high and kill him of course. Manslaughter is appropriate imo.

I can’t believe I’ve gone a full 180 on it but the video speaks for itself.

Just wanted to let you know there is another video circulating around that’s been edited to make it seem much more intentional than the original did. Dunno if that’s the video you watched or not, but it’s out there.

 

[Unsustainable]

The first video was grainy and it looked like he was upended on a check that kind of flipped him into Johnson. If you go look for the video now you find a much clearer video. I know we all tend to see what we want to see in these clips, but I was firmly in the “it has to be an accident” crowd. Watching the current video makes it difficult to defend him. He wasnt knocked in the air by the first hit. He is looking right at Johnson and clearly kicks his left leg out. I now believe 100% he kicked him with intent to do so, though I’m sure he didn’t mean to kick him so high and kill him of course. Manslaughter is appropriate imo.

I can’t believe I’ve gone a full 180 on it but the video speaks for itself.

Thats how I seen it too.

 

[bleedgreen]

To my understanding, the UK system is different. An arrest in thr UK isn’t the same as an arrest in the US. An arrest in the UK is the equivalent of “called in for questioning” in the US. The biggest thing I pulled was there are a couple reasons that could fit why Petgraves might be arrested, but not charged:

- To prevent causing physical injury to yourself or any other person – for example, if you’ve already been violent and it’s likely you may assault others if you’re not arrested

- To prevent suffering physical injury yourself – for example, if your behaviour might provoke others to assault you, so you need to be arrested for your own protection

- If the officer believes that their investigation will be delayed unreasonably if you’re not arrested. For example, if they need to interview you or collect evidence from you, but don’t believe that you’ll come to the police station voluntarily.

- If the officer believes that they won’t be able to find you later. For example, if the address you gave is temporary accommodation which you might leave before they get back in contact with you.

The latter two make sense, if Petgraves is still playing on the team, it might be difficult to contact him in a reasonable time if that team travels



Just wanted to let you know there is another video circulating around that’s been edited to make it seem much more intentional than the original did. Dunno if that’s the video you watched or not, but it’s out there.

Well it’s the same or similar angle as the original just not grainy.

 

[bleedgreen]

I can’t find anything out there about there being a fake one.

 

[CanesUltimate11]

Agreed. Absolutely insane.

Any sport has inherent risks. You can't charge players with manslaughter if a freak accident occurs. And yes, he hasn't been charged, but unless the UK system is radically different, an arrest means a charge is likely coming.

I don’t think they’ve announced who was arrested yet to be fair. Yes it’s likely the player but it’s possible they could be looking at someone at the arena who screwed up or delayed the medical response. If I recall it took absurdly long to get the medics on the ice.

 

[bleedgreen]

I don’t think they’ve announced who was arrested yet to be fair. Yes it’s likely the player but it’s possible they could be looking at someone at the arena who screwed up or delayed the medical response. If I recall it took absurdly long to get the medics on the ice.

That injury was non survivable. He was likely unconscious before he collapsed half way to the bench and they were doing cpr on the ice. I’m sure they’ll play the blame game but there was nothing to be done here. This wasn’t a slicing motion, it was basically a donkey stomp to the throat. I’ve been wondering if his airway was cut too.

 

[Navin R Slavin]

I don't think I would call it a routine play though. Absolutely don't think he wanted to kill Johnson but it was completely reckless and led to a death so manslaughter makes sense. No idea how it will play out in the end; details right now only say Petgrave has been arrested, no official charges yet that I've seen.

Here's a prior clip of Petgrave pulling the move I think he was trying with Johnson.

I haven't watched the Johnson video and don't intend to, but the fact that Petgrave has a dirty play like this in his arsenal -- and this is deliberate and dirty, maybe even more than simply reckless -- would seem to make it harder to defend his actions that resulted in Johnson's death.

 

[VaCaps Fan]

I think Petgrave intended to slash the chest area.

 

[bleedgreen]

I think Petgrave intended to slash the chest area.

With his feet. That have sharp knives on them.