Around the League 39: Will Kessel Sign in Winnipeg? The World Waits with Dogged Breath!

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Almost no retention on such a crazy contract, SJ did just fine.

When it came to Pittsburgh, San Jose had a ton of leverage from a contractual standpoint because of just how many shitty contracts that they had on the books. The Canes were likely sitting as potential vultures in case that Pittsburgh didn't want to pay to dump contracts, but I think that it's pretty clear that their ownership wanted one last push with the current group, so Dubas probably had little choice.

 

[NotOpie]

Almost no retention on such a crazy contract, SJ did just fine.

I never thought that San Jose was going to get a kings ransom for Karlsson. But the confidence of Sharks fans that two 1sts, a great prospect, and a good player (what many thought would be the return, but with around $3 million in retention) was going to be the return didn't yield many, "we were wrong" responses. Or "....if we don't get what we want, we'll just keep him....".

I couldn't say whether it was a good deal or not, but in the end, I think the Habs did better than anybody.

 

[Stubu]

Retaining so little on Karlsson is the big win.

The alternative view: what a waste of a precious retention slot for 4 years.

SJS isn't going to be competitive in those years. They could easily have added some 4 mil to the retention without any harm. Even if they miraculously are competitive in 2025 already, that's because they drafted high, and have new wunderkids on ELC - same difference.

They could have got one or two futures more, on top of the 1st rounder. That 1st rounder is looking meh, between being #11 in 2024 at best, yet/and unlikely to slide to the more interesting 2025 draft where the 1st would be unprotected.

Now they just got garbage back. Hoffman maybe can return something as a rental. Granlund and Rutta with 2 years and both overpaid? Good luck flipping those. (And I hate myself for calling Granny garbage. I still remember the youngster's michigan in that semifinals game against Russia. I guess the skating just never caught up and matched with his smarts.)

Some on HFShorks seem to be thinking their owner is a bit of a cheapskate, and that's the primary reason why higher retention didn't happen.

 

[chaz4hockey]

The alternative view: what a waste of a precious retention slot for 4 years.

SJS isn't going to be competitive in those years. They could easily have added some 4 mil to the retention without any harm. Even if they miraculously are competitive in 2025 already, that's because they drafted high, and have new wunderkids on ELC - same difference.

They could have got one or two futures more, on top of the 1st rounder. That 1st rounder is looking meh, between being #11 in 2024 at best, yet/and unlikely to slide to the more interesting 2025 draft where the 1st would be unprotected.

Now they just got garbage back. Hoffman maybe can return something as a rental. Granlund and Rutta with 2 years and both overpaid? Good luck flipping those. (And I hate myself for calling Granny garbage. I still remember the youngster's michigan in that semifinals game against Russia. I guess the skating just never caught up and matched with his smarts.)

Some on HFShorks seem to be thinking their owner is a bit of a cheapskate, and that's the primary reason why higher retention didn't happen.

"Some on HFShorks seem to be thinking their owner is a bit of a cheapskate, and that's the primary reason why higher retention didn't happen."

Thank goodness.....someone else for the hf main board to chastise versus our Dundon.

 

[Stickpucker]

There were rumors along the process that Grier's hands were tied on retention from the owner. If so...



It's hard enough to compete in the NHL when you spend to the cap. But when an owner ties your hands or you're on an interal budget, as we all know, it's nigh impossible.

 

[Stickpucker]

re Pittsburgh. We knew they were going to do this but I'm not sure I like this move from them. If the metro were a weaker conference and they had some more depth or young elc players to fill out the lineup I could get behind this move from their perspective.

The current state of the metro and penguinos....I think the most prudent thing they could've done was sell Sid, Geno, and Guentzel to kick start the rebuild. That's 4 more 1sts, than they have now, they could've had at least (1 more they didn't trade away + what they go for those assets) along with what they could've gotten for guys like Petry and Eller at the TDL.

 

[Lempo]

There were rumors along the process that Grier's hands were tied on retention from the owner. If so...

When you own the franchise with your actual own money, you may not want to get hooked up for a silly retention by a GM who is, in the end, a hired employee with ideas for his (future) career. It's you who risk going broke when a guy like that chooses to go big or go broke. Someone in Torro is in hook for the huge contracts signed by Dubas who would be a massive hero had the contracts brought Torro the Cup. But they didn't.

You as an owner may want to "waste" a retention slot for a minuscle sum just so that your GM can't use it to sign a much bigger check for you to cash for several years.

 

[Stickpucker]

When you own the franchise with your actual own money, you may not want to get hooked up for a silly retention by a GM who is, in the end, a hired employee with ideas for his (future) career. It's you who risk going broke when a guy like that chooses to go big or go broke. Someone in Torro is in hook for the huge contracts signed by Dubas who would be a massive hero had the contracts brought Torro the Cup. But they didn't.

You as an owner may want to "waste" a retention slot for a minuscle sum just so that your GM can't use it to sign a much bigger check for you to cash for several years.

If I was a rich billionaire and had that much doubt in the competency of my GM I'd fire his ass and find someone I thought could get the job done to my liking or create my own borg.

 

[MinJaBen]

If I was a rich billionaire and had that much doubt in the competency of my GM I'd fire his ass and find someone I thought could get the job done to my liking or create my own borg.

Or sell. If you are not willing to spend to win, what are you doing owning a sports team. Cash out with your gains and do something else.

 

[Svechhammer]

When you own the franchise with your actual own money, you may not want to get hooked up for a silly retention by a GM who is, in the end, a hired employee with ideas for his (future) career. It's you who risk going broke when a guy like that chooses to go big or go broke. Someone in Torro is in hook for the huge contracts signed by Dubas who would be a massive hero had the contracts brought Torro the Cup. But they didn't.

You as an owner may want to "waste" a retention slot for a minuscle sum just so that your GM can't use it to sign a much bigger check for you to cash for several years.

If you're an owner who is worried about salary retention in a salary cap league, you need to start thinking long and hard if sports ownership is really the right thing for your money right now.

As Dundon has routinely said, you don't get into sports ownership to worry about the yearly P&L. You get into sports ownership for the 20 year ROI. Its hilarious watching these owners whine about having to actually pay to the salary cap when we all know they're all sitting on franchises worth at least half a billion each.

 

[Anton Dubinchuk]

Rem Pitlick
Drew O'Connor
Alexander Nylander


What do these fine gentlemen have in common?

They are the only forwards projected to start the year in the Penguins lineup who are not in their 30s.

 

[Stubu]

If you're an owner who is worried about salary retention in a salary cap league, you need to start thinking long and hard if sports ownership is really the right thing for your money right now.

As Dundon has routinely said, you don't get into sports ownership to worry about the yearly P&L. You get into sports ownership for the 20 year ROI. Its hilarious watching these owners whine about having to actually pay to the salary cap when we all know they're all sitting on franchises worth at least half a billion each.

What's "P&L" again? I'm not completely ignorant of finance but I forget.

As an aside, the ads are killing me. Now they decided based on this context that I desperately need "neurospatia" for my calves, in zooming in and out in-your-face presentations. I blame Kessel on the thread title for lack of a better culprit. My laptop actually overheats only on HFB and my phone is useless when you see the battery visibly draining. I visit a couple of larger sites but their ad subsystems don't produce the same impact. This is probably 100% useless to complain about to the mods. Feelsbetter havingsaidit anyway. Just saying it limits my roaming around the league, actually. (Well, not physically, but who has the money for that?)

 

[Svechhammer]

What's "P&L" again? I'm not completely ignorant of finance but I forget.

As an aside, the ads are killing me. Now they decided based on this context that I desperately need "neurospatia" for my calves, in zooming in and out in-your-face presentations. I blame Kessel on the thread title for lack of a better culprit. My laptop actually overheats only on HFB and my phone is useless when you see the battery visibly draining. I visit a couple of larger sites but their ad subsystems don't produce the same impact. This is probably 100% useless to complain about to the mods. Feelsbetter havingsaidit anyway. Just saying it limits my roaming around the league, actually. (Well, not physically, but who has the money for that?)

Profits & Losses

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Rem Pitlick
Drew O'Connor
Alexander Nylander


What do these fine gentlemen have in common?

They are the only forwards projected to start the year in the Penguins lineup who are not in their 30s.

Add prototypical Dubas cheap flyers Andreas Johnsson and Vinny Hinostroza to that list. Dubas IMO didn't sign those guys to not play them.

 

[Justicebork]

No matter how you slice it, SJS squandering that retained spot and getting only 1 first round pick out of the deal as a result is borderline negligence. The only reason it makes sense is from a cash flow perspective, and if an owner of an NHL franchise is that cash strapped, Lord help us all. If SJS had retained 40 or 50 percent they could have gotten a much more valuable first round pick from Pittsburgh in 25 or 26.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

No matter how you slice it, SJS squandering that retained spot and getting only 1 first round pick out of the deal as a result is borderline negligence. The only reason it makes sense is from a cash flow perspective, and if an owner of an NHL franchise is that cash strapped, Lord help us all. If SJS had retained 40 or 50 percent they could have gotten a much more valuable first round pick from Pittsburgh in 25 or 26.

Grier got handed a crap sandwich. There is more value in them trading a broken player at the height of his value than waiting for him to get injured or fall back down to more realistic numbers. Also more value in losing to properly rebuild. Sadly, Grier still has 2 big contracts to try to move. Hertl will make it three after another 50-55 point season again this year.

Much like skinner and hall, Karlsson’s NMC ended any chance for a great return

 

[Justicebork]

Grier got handed a crap sandwich. There is more value in them trading a broken player at the height of his value than waiting for him to get injured or fall back down to more realistic numbers. Also more value in losing to properly rebuild. Sadly, Grier still has 2 big contracts to try to move. Hertl will make it three after another 50-55 point season again this year.

Much like skinner and hall, Karlsson’s NMC ended any chance for a great return

No objection to any of this. I just don't understand the minimal amount retained. The only people SJS were dealing with were up against the cap so retained dollars would have returned a premium.

 

[TheReelChuckFletcher]

Grier got handed a crap sandwich. There is more value in them trading a broken player at the height of his value than waiting for him to get injured or fall back down to more realistic numbers. Also more value in losing to properly rebuild. Sadly, Grier still has 2 big contracts to try to move. Hertl will make it three after another 50-55 point season again this year.

Much like skinner and hall, Karlsson’s NMC ended any chance for a great return

There's no need to trade Couture and Vlasic IMO. They both have utility as veteran support guys for the new drafted guys over the next few seasons and their contracts will expire in time for their contention window anyways. Hertl has a chance of being their version of Kopitar as the young guys grow, as well.

 

[WreckingCrew]

No objection to any of this. I just don't understand the minimal amount retained. The only people SJS were dealing with were up against the cap so retained dollars would have returned a premium.

Likewise though, you have to consider who he was willing to waive for...the smaller the list, the more likely you're going to get lowballed if neither team is willing to offer what you want. If it's just Carolina & Pit, well Pit doesn't have much as far as picks/prospects to offer unless you're willing to go years out, so they probably don't get much more by retaining an additional $3-4M/yr. I would guess we wanted close to 50% retention, but knowing how little our competition could offer, SJS valued minimizing the retention over maximizing a slightly better return. Long-term that cap flexibility for 4 years is probably more valuable than an extra mid-late first or two, assuming anyone would even be willing to offer that. There were a lot of deck chairs shuffled in that trade to accommodate for less retention (meaning Shittsburgh had to move out extra parts)

 

[chaz4hockey]

Profits & Losses

And don’t forget that sports P&L accounting often allows for much higher cash flow.

 

[Lempo]

Confirmed with Link: - Meme/Like Thread 6 - A new season on the horizon
View attachment 734750

Damn, can't you cross-quote nowadays?

Anyways. Montreal signed Petry in September 2020 for 4 x $6.25M contract,

Jeff Petry signed a 4 year, $25,000,000 contract with the Montreal Canadiens on Sep. 25, 2020. The contract has a cap hit of $6,250,000.

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]SEASON[/TH]
[TH]CLAUSE[/TH]
[TH]CAP HIT

[/TH]
[TH]AAV

[/TH]
[TH]P. BONUSES

[/TH]
[TH]S. BONUSES

[/TH]
[TH]BASE SALARY

[/TH]
[TH]TOTAL SALARY

[/TH]
[TH]MINORS SAL

[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2021-22[/TD]
[TD]M-NTC, NMC[/TD]
[TD]$6,250,000[/TD]
[TD]$6,250,000[/TD]
[TD]$0[/TD]
[TD]$0[/TD]
[TD]$5,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$5,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$5,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2022-23[/TD]
[TD]M-NTC, NMC[/TD]
[TD]$6,250,000[/TD]
[TD]$6,250,000[/TD]
[TD]$0[/TD]
[TD]$3,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$4,500,000[/TD]
[TD]$7,500,000[/TD]
[TD]$7,500,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2023-24[/TD]
[TD]M-NTC, NMC[/TD]
[TD]$6,250,000[/TD]
[TD]$6,250,000[/TD]
[TD]$0[/TD]
[TD]$3,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$4,500,000[/TD]
[TD]$7,500,000[/TD]
[TD]$7,500,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2024-25[/TD]
[TD]M-NTC, NMC[/TD]
[TD]$6,250,000[/TD]
[TD]$6,250,000[/TD]
[TD]$0[/TD]
[TD]$2,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$3,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$5,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$5,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]TOTAL[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]$25,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$25,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$0[/TD]
[TD]$8,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$17,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$25,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$25,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

traded him to PIT on Jul 16, 2022 after one season

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Jul. 16, 2022[/TD]

[TD]

Montreal Canadiens Acquire:

Michael Matheson · $4,875,000
2023 4th round pick (PIT - #110 - Bogdan Konyushkov)

Sum: $4,875,000
Change: -$2,125,000[/TD]

[TD]

[/TD]

[TD]

Pittsburgh Penguins Acquire:

Jeff Petry · $6,250,000
Ryan Poehling · $750,000

Sum: $7,000,000
Change: +$2,125,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

and now on Aug 6, 2023 trade him back with 25 % retained for the two remaining seasons on the SPC

�
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]DATE[/TD]
[TD]TRADE DETAILS[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Aug. 6, 2023[/TD]

[TD]

Montreal Canadiens Acquire:

From PIT:
Jeff Petry ($1,562,500 retained - 25%) · $4,687,500
Casey DeSmith · $1,800,000
Nathan Légaré · $0 (AHL/JR)
2025 2nd round pick (PIT)

Sum: $6,487,500
Change: +$887,500[/TD]

[TD]

[/TD]

[TD]

Pittsburgh Penguins Acquire:

From SJS:
Erik Karlsson ($1,500,000 retained - 13%) · $10,000,000
Dillon Hamaliuk · $0 (AHL/JR)
2026 3rd round pick (SJS)
From MTL:
Rem Pitlick · $1,100,000

Sum: $11,100,000
Change: -$3,137,500[/TD]

[TD]

[/TD]

[TD]

San Jose Sharks Acquire:

From MTL:
Mike Hoffman · $4,500,000
From PIT:
Mikael Granlund · $5,000,000
Jan Rutta · $2,750,000
2024 1st round pick (PIT) [Conditional]*

*Conditions: Top 10 protected
Sum: $12,250,000
Change: +$2,250,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

The time between the MTL-PIT trades was a little more than the CBA-mandated year which would have made the trade formally unallowable, but one could still argue with good cause that there is a circumvent-ish element to how Petry shed off a quarter of his salary on this Montreal-signed SPC.

 

[Nikishin Go Boom]

Confirmed with Link: - Meme/Like Thread 6 - A new season on the horizon
View attachment 734750

Damn, can't you cross-quote nowadays?

Anyways. Montreal signed Petry in September 2020 for 4 x $6.25M contract,

Jeff Petry signed a 4 year, $25,000,000 contract with the Montreal Canadiens on Sep. 25, 2020. The contract has a cap hit of $6,250,000.
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TH]SEASON[/TH]
[TH]CLAUSE[/TH]
[TH]CAP HIT

[/TH]
[TH]AAV

[/TH]
[TH]P. BONUSES

[/TH]
[TH]S. BONUSES

[/TH]
[TH]BASE SALARY

[/TH]
[TH]TOTAL SALARY

[/TH]
[TH]MINORS SAL

[/TH]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2021-22[/TD]
[TD]M-NTC, NMC[/TD]
[TD]$6,250,000[/TD]
[TD]$6,250,000[/TD]
[TD]$0[/TD]
[TD]$0[/TD]
[TD]$5,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$5,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$5,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2022-23[/TD]
[TD]M-NTC, NMC[/TD]
[TD]$6,250,000[/TD]
[TD]$6,250,000[/TD]
[TD]$0[/TD]
[TD]$3,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$4,500,000[/TD]
[TD]$7,500,000[/TD]
[TD]$7,500,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2023-24[/TD]
[TD]M-NTC, NMC[/TD]
[TD]$6,250,000[/TD]
[TD]$6,250,000[/TD]
[TD]$0[/TD]
[TD]$3,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$4,500,000[/TD]
[TD]$7,500,000[/TD]
[TD]$7,500,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]2024-25[/TD]
[TD]M-NTC, NMC[/TD]
[TD]$6,250,000[/TD]
[TD]$6,250,000[/TD]
[TD]$0[/TD]
[TD]$2,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$3,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$5,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$5,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]TOTAL[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD]$25,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$25,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$0[/TD]
[TD]$8,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$17,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$25,000,000[/TD]
[TD]$25,000,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

traded him to PIT on Jul 16, 2022 after two seasons

[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]Jul. 16, 2022[/TD]

[TD]

Montreal Canadiens Acquire:

Michael Matheson · $4,875,000
2023 4th round pick (PIT - #110 - Bogdan Konyushkov)

Sum: $4,875,000
Change: -$2,125,000[/TD]

[TD]

[/TD]

[TD]

Pittsburgh Penguins Acquire:

Jeff Petry · $6,250,000
Ryan Poehling · $750,000

Sum: $7,000,000
Change: +$2,125,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

and now on Aug 6, 2023 trade him back with 25 % retained

�
[TABLE=collapse]
[TR]
[TD]DATE[/TD]
[TD]TRADE DETAILS[/TD]
[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]

[TD][/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD]Aug. 6, 2023[/TD]

[TD]

Montreal Canadiens Acquire:

From PIT:
Jeff Petry ($1,562,500 retained - 25%) · $4,687,500
Casey DeSmith · $1,800,000
Nathan Légaré · $0 (AHL/JR)
2025 2nd round pick (PIT)

Sum: $6,487,500
Change: +$887,500[/TD]

[TD]

[/TD]

[TD]

Pittsburgh Penguins Acquire:

From SJS:
Erik Karlsson ($1,500,000 retained - 13%) · $10,000,000
Dillon Hamaliuk · $0 (AHL/JR)
2026 3rd round pick (SJS)
From MTL:
Rem Pitlick · $1,100,000

Sum: $11,100,000
Change: -$3,137,500[/TD]

[TD]

[/TD]

[TD]

San Jose Sharks Acquire:

From MTL:
Mike Hoffman · $4,500,000
From PIT:
Mikael Granlund · $5,000,000
Jan Rutta · $2,750,000
2024 1st round pick (PIT) [Conditional]*

*Conditions: Top 10 protected
Sum: $12,250,000
Change: +$2,250,000[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

The time between the MON-PIT trades was a little more than the CBA-mandated year which would have made the trade formally unallowable, but one could still argue with good cause that there is a circumvent-ish element to how Petry shed off a quarter of his salary on this Montreal-signed SPC.

Montreal did well here. They got a good defender in Matheson, Petry back with 25% retention, and 2 picks.

 

[Discipline Daddy]

Another Puckdoku today involves the Canes.

Spoiler:

Edit - I 100% cheated on the LA/Anaheim one. I literally couldn't think of anybody. I did also cheat in the sense that I was pretty sure Andrew Ebbett played for both teams but I cheated to confirm that he did. I'm a little upset that Jamie Storr was so close to Johan Hedberg. I guess Canes legend Jamie Storr would only get like 0.4%, but I think he played a few years in LA so that makes sense. If you click the Canes Canadian player there are all kinds of blasts from the pasts that got only 3 or 4 picks.

 

[Boom Boom Apathy]

Who cares about puckdoku, I want to see everyone's wordle results posted!

 

[Lempo]

Who cares about puckdoku, I want to see everyone's wordle results posted!

Wordle 783 3/6