Around the League - 2023/24

[JLo217]

The reasoned line is that it is negotiated in the CBA between the NHL and officials to not be public.

My tin foil hat is gambling. With how much the NHL (and all sports leagues) lean into gambling, the last thing they want to do is present any sort of bias impacting the games. It very quickly becomes a perception thing with refs and gambling that is hard to overcome. We've seen the scandals elsewhere, so if the NHL can just keep anything out of the public eye in this area... the better they feel.

Given the officiating I've seen over the last couple weeks in a slew of games it wouldn't surprise me at all if some of them were tied up in gambling. The officiating has been AWFUL lately. Like last night... lets just wave off this obvious high stick...

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I just don't agree with that... there isn't nearly enough light on the NHL's refs compared to other leagues. The other big 4 have far more issues and visibility. The NHL takes pretty much zero heat officiating wise across the US while the NBA and NFL get daily heat. The MLB will probably move to automated balls and strikes soon. Yet we hear nothing about the NHL. Now simply being here and chatting about the NHL makes us a different group of fans. We watch more and notice more... but the general public just doesn't hear the heat or care about what is out there. That's probably a low bar, but as long as the NHL isn't front and center in the officiating realm, they are happy.

Yeah, you're probably right. I do tend to forget just how hardcore we are as fans. I mean, we managed to watch 82 games together in 16-17 and still manage to smile. This is not "normal" behavior.

It's kind of funny, I've never been a gambler, known a gambler or have a problem with it in theory as long as folks know what they are getting into. To be honest, I am actually quite surprised by how strongly I feel on the topic. It's not in my nature because I agree that over the course of a 7 game series things should and more or less do even out. However, individual games often come down to who got the extra power play. PPs are just so influential in the outcome that every penalty called, and perhaps more importantly, every penalty NOT called, has the potential to be the pivotal moment in the game. It's the consistency between called and not called and how that changes on a dime, mid-game that has been my issue. And as this is a super-fast game that uses super-slow mo replays in high-def, I don't know what the answer is. But the status quo, truly is a pathetic bar to sit at.

I know, I'm probably either just preaching to the choir or more likely a bemused audience wondering what the old man is yelling at the clouds over now.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

IDK where else to put this

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

Given the officiating I've seen over the last couple weeks in a slew of games it wouldn't surprise me at all if some of them were tied up in gambling. The officiating has been AWFUL lately. Like last night... lets just wave off this obvious high stick...

Or Walker taking an obvious hit to the head, that goes uncalled, and then seconds later Girard makes an almost perfect play, to hit his man and separate him from the puck, and they call him for "holding."

The Nashville game was worse.

 

[henchman21]

Sucks... St. John's is such a good hockey city, but there just isn't enough of a market to support a professional team... and certainly not one with that level of ownership.

 

[JLo217]

Or Walker taking an obvious hit to the head, that goes uncalled, and then seconds later Girard makes an almost perfect play, to hit his man and separate him from the puck, and they call him for "holding."

The Nashville game was worse.

Agreed. That was one of the worst officiated games I've seen. In general though it's all over the place. Hooking used to mean something throughout the length of the season as we got closer to the PO's. Now it's different every f***ing game.

 

[Pokecheque]

Sucks... St. John's is such a good hockey city, but there just isn't enough of a market to support a professional team... and certainly not one with that level of ownership.

Damn. If a Leafs-backed affiliate can't make it there, I don't think any team can.

Also, IIRC St. John's is a difficult place to get to. It ain't like you can just pile in the bus and get there.

 

[henchman21]

Damn. If a Leafs-backed affiliate can't make it there, I don't think any team can.

Also, IIRC St. John's is a difficult place to get to. It ain't like you can just pile in the bus and get there.

The amount of funding/effort NHL orgs put into ECHL is very minimal. It is more of a marketing thing more than anything else. There are issues between the city, arena and DSE (now former owners)... it has never been super stable, but it goes to show how tough it is. The travel is a big part of it. The logistical challenge going to Canada is enough, but Newfoundland is a much more difficult task on top of it. I really think the ECHL should work to condense their teams geographically more and limit East-West travel. Move Wheeling and Iowa out west to say Portland (or Eugene) and Sacramento (Ranadive wants a hockey team, would be a good place to test the waters). Sending Newfoundland to play in Boise, Idaho is just a logistical nightmare that results in an ECHL team being on the road for nearly 3 weeks (and vice versa) that the business is just difficult to work.

 

[Pokecheque]

The amount of funding/effort NHL orgs put into ECHL is very minimal. It is more of a marketing thing more than anything else. There are issues between the city, arena and DSE (now former owners)... it has never been super stable, but it goes to show how tough it is. The travel is a big part of it. The logistical challenge going to Canada is enough, but Newfoundland is a much more difficult task on top of it. I really think the ECHL should work to condense their teams geographically more and limit East-West travel. Move Wheeling and Iowa out west to say Portland (or Eugene) and Sacramento (Ranadive wants a hockey team, would be a good place to test the waters). Sending Newfoundland to play in Boise, Idaho is just a logistical nightmare that results in an ECHL team being on the road for nearly 3 weeks (and vice versa) that the business is just difficult to work.

The fact they don't even call themselves the East Coast Hockey League is pretty telling.

I would recommend they split that league, not unlike what they did with the AHL, but actually make two separate leagues that maybe meet once a year for a championship, kind of a pro Memorial Cup.

 

[cinchronicity]

I think refs generally do a hell of a job. People forget that they aren't watching the game on TV with all the best angles, zoom-ins and replays. Goalies can't see the pucks because of traffic but refs have to see everything, pucks, sticks, hands, faces, blue lines, red lines, number of players on the ice, all the times, from all angles.... Pretty crazy...

Officiating any sport is difficult. That said, the NHL is falling farther behind other professional sports. For example, in the NBA, when there is a challenge, the refs must now announce their decision-making process to the arena and the TV audience. Bednar recently challenged a goal which - with the benefit of slo-mo replays - sure as hell looked like the puck was hit with a glove which was moving toward a teammate - who eventually knocked it in. If one reads the rules, this is clearly a 'no goal' call. Yet after review, the refs pointed to the center dot and assessed the Avs the penalty. If they saw something on the slo-mo that I ( and the 4 Avs analysts) saw, then tell me.

I really hate to say this, but soccer / futbol have actually done the best job, by having an 'eye in the sky' that can notify the on-field officials to go look at the slo-mo. If they did that, the recent Makar face-shot gets called. The own goal / Toews goal which ended Mack's streak is another example. The eye in the sky did get the call correct, but without 4 slo-mo angles, nobody would know that.

I agree that hockey is fast and it is hard for 4 guys to see everything if they are doing their jobs correctly. But other sports are looking to improve, while Bettman et al are trying to circle the secrecy wagons.

 

[Balthazar]

Lafreniere has 25 goals and 52 points.

 

[dahrougem2]

Lafreniere has 25 goals and 52 points.

Sounds like a disappointment

 

[GeoRox89]

Officiating any sport is difficult. That said, the NHL is falling farther behind other professional sports. For example, in the NBA, when there is a challenge, the refs must now announce their decision-making process to the arena and the TV audience. Bednar recently challenged a goal which - with the benefit of slo-mo replays - sure as hell looked like the puck was hit with a glove which was moving toward a teammate - who eventually knocked it in. If one reads the rules, this is clearly a 'no goal' call. Yet after review, the refs pointed to the center dot and assessed the Avs the penalty. If they saw something on the slo-mo that I ( and the 4 Avs analysts) saw, then tell me.

I really hate to say this, but soccer / futbol have actually done the best job, by having an 'eye in the sky' that can notify the on-field officials to go look at the slo-mo. If they did that, the recent Makar face-shot gets called. The own goal / Toews goal which ended Mack's streak is another example. The eye in the sky did get the call correct, but without 4 slo-mo angles, nobody would know that.

I agree that hockey is fast and it is hard for 4 guys to see everything if they are doing their jobs correctly. But other sports are looking to improve, while Bettman et al are trying to circle the secrecy wagons.

VAR doesn’t apply to all situations though. It’s only goals, penalties, potential red cards and mistaken identity. Fouls outside the penalty area are still more or less at the ref’s discretion unless it’s a possible serious/red card offence and it still has to be a clear and obvious error (or offside). Thats why you get all sorts of annoying situations like terrible missed fouls but because they’re just on the edge of the box the game goes on because it’s not a situation VAR can intervene

 

[The Abusement Park]

Officiating any sport is difficult. That said, the NHL is falling farther behind other professional sports. For example, in the NBA, when there is a challenge, the refs must now announce their decision-making process to the arena and the TV audience. Bednar recently challenged a goal which - with the benefit of slo-mo replays - sure as hell looked like the puck was hit with a glove which was moving toward a teammate - who eventually knocked it in. If one reads the rules, this is clearly a 'no goal' call. Yet after review, the refs pointed to the center dot and assessed the Avs the penalty. If they saw something on the slo-mo that I ( and the 4 Avs analysts) saw, then tell me.

I really hate to say this, but soccer / futbol have actually done the best job, by having an 'eye in the sky' that can notify the on-field officials to go look at the slo-mo. If they did that, the recent Makar face-shot gets called. The own goal / Toews goal which ended Mack's streak is another example. The eye in the sky did get the call correct, but without 4 slo-mo angles, nobody would know that.

I agree that hockey is fast and it is hard for 4 guys to see everything if they are doing their jobs correctly. But other sports are looking to improve, while Bettman et al are trying to circle the secrecy wagons.

Okay but that was the correct call?

 

[expatriatedtexan]

I always assumed a hand pass meant, I don't know...maybe you passed the puck with your hand to a team-mate?

A shot deflecting off of someone is not a pass. I don't care how you litigate it. It sucks that it went against us, I wouldn't have contested it. Leave the bush-league theatrics to Jon Cooper. Let's beat them on the scoreboard for realsies.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[The Abusement Park]

I always assumed a hand pass meant, I don't know...maybe you passed the puck with your hand to a team-mate?

A shot deflecting off of someone is not a pass. I don't care how you litigate it. It sucks that it went against us, I wouldn't have contested it. Leave the bush-league theatrics to Jon Cooper. Let's beat them on the scoreboard for realsies.

The rule is essentially the same rule as kicking a puck into the net.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

The rule is essentially the same rule as kicking a puck into the net.

So it requires a distinct passing motion?

I legit don't know.

 

[The Abusement Park]

So it requires a distinct passing motion?

I legit don't know.

The rule mentions "batting" the puck. Which I'd interpret as an intentional motion at the puck.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

The rule mentions "batting" the puck. Which I'd interpret as an intentional motion at the puck.

Yeah, I just looked it up.

79.1 - Hand Pass - A player shall be permitted to stop or “bat” a puck in the air with his open hand, or push it along the ice with his hand, and the play shall not be stopped unless, in the opinion of the on-ice officials, he has directed the puck to a teammate, or has allowed his team to gain an advantage, and subsequently possession and control of the puck is obtained by a player of the offending team, either directly or deflected off any player or official.​

​

Not going to lie, there is a lot of ambiguity and entirely too much left to the ref's judgement. I hate these rules. Of course, I'd actually allow players to deflect a shot with their hands if they so desired. I personally wouldn't use that as a strategy, but whatever floats your boat.

 

[The Abusement Park]

Yeah, I just looked it up.

79.1 - Hand Pass - A player shall be permitted to stop or “bat” a puck in the air with his open hand, or push it along the ice with his hand, and the play shall not be stopped unless, in the opinion of the on-ice officials, he has directed the puck to a teammate, or has allowed his team to gain an advantage, and subsequently possession and control of the puck is obtained by a player of the offending team, either directly or deflected off any player or official.​

​

Not going to lie, there is a lot of ambiguity and entirely too much left to the ref's judgement. I hate these rules. Of course, I'd actually allow players to deflect a shot with their hands if they so desired. I personally wouldn't use that as a strategy, but whatever floats your boat.

There's ambiguity in whether or not you get an advantage for sure. But in the end there still needs to be intention for it to be a hand pass.

 

[henchman21]

Are we still on the hand pass that clearly wasn’t, by rule?

 

[The Moops]

Is this the refs fault too Russo?

 

[expatriatedtexan]

Are we still on the hand pass that clearly wasn’t, by rule?

 

[the_fan]

Whoa, just checked the scoreboard, Habs spanking the Panthers 5-2

Florida has been shit lately