Around the League - 2023/24

[Colorado Avalanche]

IMO Kakko is a bit of a early developer sort of story... where he developed his man strength and ability early. It was easy to look at him and say, 'look at what he's doing at 17/18... just imagine as he gets bigger and stronger!' Where the bigger and stronger were already there, and while he's a bit bigger and stronger than he was, in the NHL he just doesn't have that advantage to the same extent. It is similar to those who are deemed great skaters at lower levels... when you get to the NHL the differences shrink and to truly be an elite skater, you have to be just utterly absurd.

If I was advising Kakko, I'd have him trim off 5-10 pounds to try to gain any speed he can, work on his first two steps, and really key in on being a one touch guy/one who gets the puck off his stick within seconds. Make him a more assertive player. Mistakes will follow for a bit, but overall it will quicken his pace and allow him to play with better players at those higher paces. When that settles, then he can bring back in the possession qualities to his game.

For years, Finns were producing elite talent after elite talent... that has seemingly went dry though. Not sure what really changed, but the last 4-5 years have felt disappointing for the standard they were setting earlier.

It's a golden generation. Nothing changed. We were lucky to produce so many top producers at the same time.

Variance

 

[Pokecheque]

Someone check in on Bobby Ryan and tell him to calm down already.

 

[Balthazar]

In Tarasenko and Kane you're looking at quite possibly the two worst defensive players in hockey.

 

[Pokecheque]

Believe it or not, Tarasenko is worse. So is (except for this year for some weird reason) Kane.

 

[Pokecheque]

So what's the deal with Alex Nylander? Is this just a weirdly productive blip or has he finally figured it out?

 

[henchman21]

I don't really buy the "big and strong early" for European prospects, when they are playing against grown ass men in pro leagues. For skating, 100% because at least here in Finland we are horrible at developing skating. Kakko is plenty strong and big enough, unfortunately his skating is lacking for the NHL level. Which doesn't mean that he can't be an effective NHL player (he already is), but in a top-6 role it requires a line where he can play to his strengths. Which is winning board battles down low and in tight areas.

Your points for what he should maybe focus on are not wrong though.

Trust me, it has been noticed by us Finns too. It's looking pretty f***ing grim. I think we have become a victim of too systematic play and focus to win as a team. When you are not learning how to shoot, skate, and stick handle after becoming 13ish years old, but instead learning how to defend as a team, this is the end result you get. At least that's what I believe is happening. Not enough focus on individual skills.

The grown as men in those leagues don't play the same style and aren't typically as talented while being as big and strong as NHLers. Part of that projection was that he was holding his own and even overpowering in Finland. He was very well developed in his draft year and the expectation was he had much more to go in that area... which he just didn't have. Yeah he can hold his own here today and overpower a lot... but he's not a next level version of that sort like a prime Tom Wilson where nobody could really contain him physically.

I do agree Finland seems horrible at developing skating, and I also think they are horrible at developing creativity. Honestly as a general rule, this is where I think European hockey has just faltered. The U17/U18/U20 leagues are just there to graduate the best players to the pro teams as soon as possible. The best players, maybe end up in legit pro leagues at 15-17 and have the structure and play of that pressed upon them from a very early age. Meaning those 17 year olds have to learn to be 3rd line role players instead of figuring out how to take control of games and dominate... or play against the grain to create advantages. It is tough as the pro ranks really require that sort of play as there are grown up consequences... but it really holds back a lot of kids who may not have that star talent... but could be 50-60 point guys if they leaned into their skill sets differently from a young age. Gulyayev is one of these cases IMO. A kid that has a clear skill set and talent, but is going to be beaten over the head for 3 years on how to be a reliable middle pairing KHL defender.

It's a golden generation. Nothing changed. We were lucky to produce so many top producers at the same time.

Variance

Yeah variance happens, but the amount of variance seems quite high. To go from producing elite talents every year, sometimes multiple... to basically nothing is just odd.

 

[henchman21]

Snuggerud might be the first real test of NIL vs ELC/AHL time. There's a rumor going around that he got >100k on the table to stay at Minnesota.

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

One of these days someone is going to do to Nick Cousins worse than what Jason Zucker and Erik Gudbranson did.

He didn't even do anything dirty tonight. Just stupid rat shit then ducks for cover when challenged and gets his teammates to fight his battles.

Sounds like Kirk Maltby, who did that his entire career in Detoilet

 

[Pokecheque]

Say what you will about Torts, not a single member of the media is complaining about him when he sits down and talks honest like this.

 

[Chiarelli]

Say what you will about Torts, not a single member of the media is complaining about him when he sits down and talks honest like this.

I'll admit I didn't even watch but this dudes on damage control cuz he just tanked their cinderella season

 

[95snipes]

Snuggerud might be the first real test of NIL vs ELC/AHL time. There's a rumor going around that he got >100k on the table to stay at Minnesota.

Just curious, do you have a link for this? Or is it something you're hearing off the record so to speak.

 

[Ncit3]

I'll admit I didn't even watch but this dudes on damage control cuz he just tanked their cinderella season

I mean if you didn’t watch it you don’t have any clue what he said. Think it was pretty from the heart and honestly what a lot of diva ass players in this league need to hear. I’ve never had a problem with Torts. He’s fiery, passionate, and gives a shit about his players giving their all. Wish Bednar would get a bit more angry when people give half effort on the Avs.

 

[henchman21]

Just curious, do you have a link for this? Or is it something you're hearing off the record so to speak.

Off the record. First time I’m hearing of a guy getting over 100k that isn’t a sure thing to jump right into the NHL soon. The rumors are Gauthier cleared 150 at BU this year (and Smith too), but those are sure thing jump into the NHL guys. Snuggerud is an elite college guy who is likely in line for an AHL year if he jumped. This could be the paradigm shift that’s been expected.

Matthew Wood is rumored to be fielding 75+k offers

 

[Bill Peckerskull]

 

[missionAvs]

f*** that sucks. Hate to read/hear stuff like this.

 

[henchman21]

Say what you will about Torts, not a single member of the media is complaining about him when he sits down and talks honest like this.

The problem is, the second he does something the media will latch onto… this will be completely forgotten.

 

[avsfan2189]

Say what you will about Torts, not a single member of the media is complaining about him when he sits down and talks honest like this.

he's heard this his entire career but can't seem to understand that his method of getting players 'to the next level' isn't working or as effective as he thinks it should be.

still just so stuck in his ways and stubborn and the rep is well deserved.

he's won absolutely nothing valuable since his cup in tampa and this mindset is the reason why.

better stat ppl will look to his # of playoff round wins in the last decade or since his cup and emphasize this point.

being hard nosed doesnt have to be disrespectful and being fair and accountable doesnt have to be as volatile as the way he approaches players. You don't have to baby them but you don't have to be so extreme either.

thank god he's not coaching the avs and like others have said wouldnt want him anywhere near a great team with potential

 

[95snipes]

Off the record. First time I’m hearing of a guy getting over 100k that isn’t a sure thing to jump right into the NHL soon. The rumors are Gauthier cleared 150 at BU this year (and Smith too), but those are sure thing jump into the NHL guys. Snuggerud is an elite college guy who is likely in line for an AHL year if he jumped. This could be the paradigm shift that’s been expected.

Matthew Wood is rumored to be fielding 75+k offers

Very interesting.

 

[LOFIN]

I'll admit I didn't even watch but this dudes on damage control cuz he just tanked their cinderella season

Without Torts, they would be a tank team. I find it hilarious to read some of the comments from Flyers fans, who want him fired. He has elevated them to something no-one could see before the season, and while they are on a bad stretch yes, they are still playing meaningful games.

Torts elevates the teams where he goes to, but he also wears out on them pretty fast. So ideally, you hire him when you actually need to get over the hump. He's a guy that you can do that with. Philly hired him at exactly the wrong time, when they still needed to be bad and tank for picks, and he's going to wear out the players and get fired. Might be after this season, with the way it has been going the last few weeks.

 

[henchman21]

Without Torts, they would be a tank team. I find it hilarious to read some of the comments from Flyers fans, who want him fired. He has elevated them to something no-one could see before the season, and while they are on a bad stretch yes, they are still playing meaningful games.

Torts elevates the teams where he goes to, but he also wears out on them pretty fast. So ideally, you hire him when you actually need to get over the hump. He's a guy that you can do that with. Philly hired him at exactly the wrong time, when they still needed to be bad and tank for picks, and he's going to wear out the players and get fired. Might be after this season, with the way it has been going the last few weeks.

Yeah pretty much everybody was picking Philly to be in the Mac 2.0 sweepstakes... not in the hunt for the playoffs at the end of the season. To me, the only guy who has done a better job coaching this season is Tocchet.

Where I really disagree is him wearing out his welcome. Yeah with individual players he may do that, but as a whole he really doesn't. He coached Tampa for 6.5+ seasons. Rangers for 4+. Columbus for practically 6 (took over a few games in his first season there). The one short stint was Vancouver which was a clear disaster. His other tenures have been longer than the NHL normal... and in Columbus, the only reason he came back is the players pretty much begged him to come back.

Wrong coach at that wrong time... I think there is merit in that argument. The counter to that is Torts' biggest strength is setting a winning culture. If you want to set that from the get go, he's the right guy for that. But I fully get the argument that he should have been hired this summer instead of 2022.

If Torts was available, Buffalo would be the ideal spot for him. Take a clearly talented roster and elevate them. It might be a Columbus situation all over where playoffs success doesn't follow as much as is desired, but he'd certainly get them there and consistently.

 

[Pokecheque]

he's heard this his entire career but can't seem to understand that his method of getting players 'to the next level' isn't working or as effective as he thinks it should be.

still just so stuck in his ways and stubborn and the rep is well deserved.

he's won absolutely nothing valuable since his cup in tampa and this mindset is the reason why.

better stat ppl will look to his # of playoff round wins in the last decade or since his cup and emphasize this point.

being hard nosed doesnt have to be disrespectful and being fair and accountable doesnt have to be as volatile as the way he approaches players. You don't have to baby them but you don't have to be so extreme either.

thank god he's not coaching the avs and like others have said wouldnt want him anywhere near a great team with potential

I agree, I'm glad he's not coaching the Avs, but I think he's a good coach. He's definitely a quick-fix guy at this point in his career and wears out teams faster than ever now. But ain't no way he's changing. Not now, not ever.

Personally I just like the entertainment value. Putting John Tortorella in charge of the Philadelphia Flyers is akin to throwing a Van der Graaf generator in the bathtub. You knew there would be drama cranked up to 11, only thing to do is sit back and watch.

He got way more out of a pretty bad roster for this long, especially after they lost their starting goaltender for the season (and possibly for good).

Wrong coach at that wrong time... I think there is merit in that argument. The counter to that is Torts' biggest strength is setting a winning culture. If you want to set that from the get go, he's the right guy for that. But I fully get the argument that he should have been hired this summer instead of 2022.

Oh I dunno, I think he was absolutely the right hire. The wrecking ball to a staid, broken culture that had festered under the watchful eyes of a bunch of guys who still thought it was 1975. They wouldn't have listened to anyone else. Now, with or without Torts, the question is what they'll do next.

 

[henchman21]

Oh I dunno, I think he was absolutely the right hire. The wrecking ball to a staid, broken culture that had festered under the watchful eyes of a bunch of guys who still thought it was 1975. They wouldn't have listened to anyone else. Now, with or without Torts, the question is what they'll do next.

I get that argument too. Both sides have merit and I understand it. For the life of me though, I don't know how anybody could think Torts is doing a bad job there. The team has taken a large step forward and a bunch of individual players have taken steps forward. People just a few years ago were ready to just plateau Sanheim as a good #3, maybe low end #2D. He's played like more like a #1 this season.

On their slide... people are very quick to point the blame on Torts, but they lost their starting goalie who was playing very well to a very distracting set of circumstances. It is really hard to overcome .7 goals against being added and keep winning consistently.

 

[The Abusement Park]

he's heard this his entire career but can't seem to understand that his method of getting players 'to the next level' isn't working or as effective as he thinks it should be.

still just so stuck in his ways and stubborn and the rep is well deserved.

he's won absolutely nothing valuable since his cup in tampa and this mindset is the reason why.

better stat ppl will look to his # of playoff round wins in the last decade or since his cup and emphasize this point.

being hard nosed doesnt have to be disrespectful and being fair and accountable doesnt have to be as volatile as the way he approaches players. You don't have to baby them but you don't have to be so extreme either.

thank god he's not coaching the avs and like others have said wouldnt want him anywhere near a great team with potential

Huh? Dudes an unreal coach. Philly was a disaster last year and he’s had them in a playoff spot all year. He had Columbus actually relevant for a few years. I don’t know how anyone can say he’s a bad coach.

If people don’t like how Torts is now they’d hate every coach from like the 90’s and earlier.

 

[Pokecheque]

I get that argument too. Both sides have merit and I understand it. For the life of me though, I don't know how anybody could think Torts is doing a bad job there. The team has taken a large step forward and a bunch of individual players have taken steps forward. People just a few years ago were ready to just plateau Sanheim as a good #3, maybe low end #2D. He's played like more like a #1 this season.

On their slide... people are very quick to point the blame on Torts, but they lost their starting goalie who was playing very well to a very distracting set of circumstances. It is really hard to overcome .7 goals against being added and keep winning consistently.

Yeah, losing Hart and then for whatever reason their top center hitting a wall right around late December or so, that would affect any team.

He got a pretty mediocre roster to overachieve most of the season. And unlike what Detroit did this year, it wasn't a mirage. They had (mostly) good underlying numbers for a good part of the year.

BTW, for those of you complaining about Bednar, he's honest and forthright as well, he's just a lot quieter in his delivery. The only thing he's intentionally vague about is injuries, pretty sure Torts is too.

If anyone's a dinosaur in the NHL these days, it's Lou Lamoriello.

 

[expatriatedtexan]

All I know is that I want to see Torts coach the Maple Leafs before they blow things up.

I'll actually become a fan of the team.