Around the League - 2023/24

[UncleRisto]

And that's ok. We just happen to have different worldviews.

I'm okay with that, absolutely. This is my stance only on this sports question.

I believe calling the team "Not Russia" doesn't solve the problem, only ignores it. If you believe that this sort of punishment of exclusion is unnecessary then you're entitled to that.

Edit: By the way, I might as well throw this one out there too. I believe that if the NHL, in essence, invited the Russian Hockey Federation to participate, Czechia, Sweden, and Finland would pull out. I don't know how exactly this works out as an NHL only event, but at the very least the opposition from national entities would be notable.

 

[redacted]

Whether people like it or not, sports and politics have always overlapped. You have the Nazi Olympics that was meant as a propaganda piece to the World Cup being bought by authoritarian regimes to add legitimacy to protests in the NFL/NBA. The reason the Miracle on Ice is so big is that some scrappy upstart capitalists brought down the communist machine. Sports are just a fabric of humanity and the need for competition... naturally there is overlap with political motivations.

With the NHL here... you have a western based hockey league, primarily populated with western players, and ran by western leaders... when a country from the east is in a quasi war with the west (and a country that wants to lean more to the west). For that league to cater to the western side of this shouldn't be surprising. The bills in the league are primarily paid by people who prefer the west. With hockey, the situation in the middle east is not really relevant to their business decisions here. They'll clearly side with the west (and thus Israel) in statements, but there is no real decisions like this to make. Anything is superficial

 

[LOFIN]

I thought that the Oilers would eventually pull out of their slump enough to make the playoffs. But the mathematical margin of error is getting slim pretty quickly here. Assuming the final WC isn't going to be drastically easier to get this year, the Oilers would basically have to start matching their point% from last year to just make the playoffs. And I mean start like right now. Their next 10 games:
@ CAR
@ WSH
vs ANA
vs VGK
@ WPG
vs CAR
vs MIN
vs NJD
vs CHI
vs TBL

I think they would be lucky to get to .500 against those teams.

 

[redacted]

I thought that the Oilers would eventually pull out of their slump enough to make the playoffs. But the mathematical margin of error is getting slim pretty quickly here. Assuming the final WC isn't going to be drastically easier to get this year, the Oilers would basically have to start matching their point% from last year to just make the playoffs. And I mean start like right now. Their next 10 games:
@ CAR
@ WSH
vs ANA
vs VGK
@ WPG
vs CAR
vs MIN
vs NJD
vs CHI
vs TBL

I think they would be lucky to get to .500 against those teams.

I think there is a decent chance 92 points gets in, 94 is likely, and 96+ is pretty certain... that's basically a .625-655 P% or a 102-108 point pace. Yeah that is close to what they did last year, but it isn't a super strong pace either. The past 3 seasons they have been between .634 and .665... this team doesn't look drastically worse than those teams, so it should be do able.

The margin of error is certainly shrinking, but at this stage something like a 5 game winning streak corrects a lot of it.

 

[Ceremony]

Oh sorry, I didn't realise I was behind.

You know, the 2024 Stanley Cup Champion Edmonton Oilers are really beginning to impress me.

 

[dahrougem2]

I think there is a decent chance 92 points gets in, 94 is likely, and 96+ is pretty certain... that's basically a .625-655 P% or a 102-108 point pace. Yeah that is close to what they did last year, but it isn't a super strong pace either. The past 3 seasons they have been between .634 and .665... this team doesn't look drastically worse than those teams, so it should be do able.

The margin of error is certainly shrinking, but at this stage something like a 5 game winning streak corrects a lot of it.

I would agree, but...

They can't get a save. I don't know what's going to happen, but Skinner can't make a save and Calvin Pickard isn't an NHL goalie. Campbell is Campbell.

It's bad in Edmonton.

 

[LOFIN]

I would agree, but...

They can't get a save. I don't know what's going to happen, but Skinner can't make a save and Calvin Pickard isn't an NHL goalie. Campbell is Campbell.

It's bad in Edmonton.

Prime Hasek, Roy, Brodeur... Pick whoever you want, even those guys wouldn't save this shitshow:

 

[redacted]

I would agree, but...

They can't get a save. I don't know what's going to happen, but Skinner can't make a save and Calvin Pickard isn't an NHL goalie. Campbell is Campbell.

It's bad in Edmonton.

The previous 3 seasons of goaltending really wasn't any better talent wise... and if you look at underlying stats, the team on the ice actually looks significantly better in many areas than previous teams. That's certainly not the end all be all, but there is a lot of evidence that Edmonton is a few bounces away from going on a run and a massive correction happening.

I honestly expect they'll make a dumb desperation goaltending trade here soon. Something like 2 2nds for Mrazek who looks just good enough to get by with, but ultimately falls apart.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Prime Hasek, Roy, Brodeur... Pick whoever you want, even those guys wouldn't save this shitshow:

Bouchard on that play complete clown show haha. The low intensity leisurely skate around on the rebound should have got him stapled to the bench the rest of the game and then traded the next day.

 

[The Kingslayer]

The previous 3 seasons of goaltending really wasn't any better talent wise... and if you look at underlying stats, the team on the ice actually looks significantly better in many areas than previous teams. That's certainly not the end all be all, but there is a lot of evidence that Edmonton is a few bounces away from going on a run and a massive correction happening.

I honestly expect they'll make a dumb desperation goaltending trade here soon. Something like 2 2nds for Mrazek who looks just good enough to get by with, but ultimately falls apart.

The Oilers being passive on the goalie front is hilarious. They have the best offensive player of this generation and the best goalie they been able to get him is Mike Smith.

 

[UncleRisto]

The previous 3 seasons of goaltending really wasn't any better talent wise... and if you look at underlying stats, the team on the ice actually looks significantly better in many areas than previous teams. That's certainly not the end all be all, but there is a lot of evidence that Edmonton is a few bounces away from going on a run and a massive correction happening.

I honestly expect they'll make a dumb desperation goaltending trade here soon. Something like 2 2nds for Mrazek who looks just good enough to get by with, but ultimately falls apart.

Mrazek would be perfect, because he would start with a few "solid" wins, and the media would talk about a stabilizing force, and then he completely falls apart during the stretch run or the first round.

 

[Ceremony]

Prime Hasek, Roy, Brodeur... Pick whoever you want, even those guys wouldn't save this shitshow:

Prime Roy would simply have killed the #2 and changes would have resulted.

 

[LOFIN]

The Oilers being passive on the goalie front is hilarious. They have the best offensive player of this generation and the best goalie they been able to get him is Mike Smith.

Elite goalies are few and far between, and the position is so unpredictable I would argue it should've been easier to construct a well rounded team that plays good defence instead of trying to find that one great goalie. If you look at the SC winners from like the last decade, aside from Vasilevsky, Quick and Crawford, the rest of them are a bunch mid goalies.

 

[UncleRisto]

Elite goalies are few and far between, and the position is so unpredictable I would argue it should've been easier to construct a well rounded team that plays good defence instead of trying to find that one great goalie. If you look at the SC winners from like the last decade, aside from Vasilevsky, Quick and Crawford, the rest of them are a bunch mid goalies.

And in fact, Crawford was also a mid goalie.

 

[Balthazar]

And in fact, Crawford was also a mid goalie.

So was Fleury considering the era he was playing in.

 

[LOFIN]

And in fact, Crawford was also a mid goalie.

I wasn't following the league that closely back then to really form an opinion about him. But his career averages would pretty much put him in the same group we call "elite" goalies today. Vasilevsky, the NY Russians, Saros, Hellebuyck etc.

If you want to call him mid, it only enhances my point. There are not that many SC winning teams in recent history (aside from Tampa) who had an elite goalie. They had good goaltending during their runs (apart from us), but a mid-goalie can achieve that if the team is good enough in front of them. That's what Edmonton should strive towards. Basically the only goalie I can see making a true difference for them is Saros, and Nashville has inclined they don't want to move him and he wants to stay as well.

 

[Balthazar]

I wasn't following the league that closely back then to really form an opinion about him. But his career averages would pretty much put him in the same group we call "elite" goalies today. Vasilevsky, the NY Russians, Saros, Hellebuyck etc.

I've a very unpopular opinion but I don't think Vasi is as good people think he is. Especially now that people throw his name in the same sentence as Roy, Hasek and Brodeur.

Playing behind a dominant team makes goalies look better than they are (see: Avs).

I'd have loved to watch Vasi in his prime try to do what Hasek did with shit teams.

 

[Balthazar]

 

[redacted]

Elite goalies are few and far between, and the position is so unpredictable I would argue it should've been easier to construct a well rounded team that plays good defence instead of trying to find that one great goalie. If you look at the SC winners from like the last decade, aside from Vasilevsky, Quick and Crawford, the rest of them are a bunch mid goalies.

If we exclude 7 of the last 12 Cup winners, you have just mid goalies left!

I'd argue before injuries set in, Murray was that caliber though. If you include him, there was a stretch of 8 of 10 of higher end goalies winning the Cup... and Holtby (a Vezina winner) was one of the outliers. Really it is only the last 5-6 years where this has happened.... the weird Blues run, and then Colorado/Vegas. Probably could make an argument that the flat cap has contributed to the last two where both teams would have gladly paid for goaltending if the cap afforded it.

Still saying all that you don't need a great goalie to win a Cup. You need a goalie that doesn't outright lose you games. They make the saves they should and when the game is tied or within 1, they make big saves. If they do that, you can win with a good enough team. When I look across the West as a whole... the goalies I see that fit (or are better) are Hill, Demko, Helly, Gibson, Saros, and Otter. With Otter getting a pass of last year, but a 2nd bad playoff year would sway my opinion and lower him. The George, Talbot, Binnington, Grubi, and Vejmelka group haven't really proven a thing... they could elevate or could fall. The Oilers/Wild disaster, Markstrom, and others don't fit at all.

 

[redacted]

And in fact, Crawford was also a mid goalie.

I've lightened a lot on this opinion. His 7 year run as a starter from 10-11 to 16-17 was pretty damn good. 2 Jennings Trophies, 3 top 10 Vezina finishes, of goalies that played 200+ games in that era he's tied for 9th in Sv% with Rinne and Quick (within earshot of Hank, Lou, Bob), etc etc. He was clearly a top 10 goalie of that timeframe and arguably top 5. He's not Price or Hank... but in that Quick/Rask/Bob realm (if Bob had multiple playoff runs like last season, he'd be in the Price/Hank tier).

 

[The Kingslayer]

The media machine behind Hughes alone will get him at minimum the Norris and probably both the Norris and MVP if he continues this pace and the Nucks make the playoffs. I told @the_fan the media loves these storylines. Makar will have to beat Hughes by 10-15 points to even get a sniff this season.

 

[The Kingslayer]

Quinton Byfield is starting to put it together. What a pass he made last night.

 

[LOFIN]

The media machine behind Hughes alone will get him at minimum the Norris and probably both the Norris and MVP if he continues this pace and the Nucks make the playoffs. I told @the_fan the media loves these storylines. Makar will have to beat Hughes by 10-15 points to even get a sniff this season.

The Norris will be his if things continue on this course. But if things continue this way, I don't know about the Hart for Q. Hughes. EP and JT Miller have also been pretty damn good and are at the top of the scoring list. Meanwhile, there are some other storylines with players who are solely leading the charge of their respective teams. Nylander in Toronto, Jack Hughes in New Jersey (assuming he returns to his pre-injury form), Panarin in New York...

 

[redacted]

Quinton Byfield is starting to put it together. What a pass he made last night.

Yeah he may not be a center, but if he plays like he has so far this season, that helps LA a ton. Clarke is looking amazing in the AHL too. Those two along with Spence, Anderson, and Kaliyev progressing and taking another step will really help LA. Especially Spence, Anderson and Clarke down the line. The forward depth is incredibly strong now... if the defense can get there too, that team could be incredibly good despite having Talbot in net.

 

[The Kingslayer]

The Norris will be his if things continue on this course. But if things continue this way, I don't know about the Hart for Q. Hughes. EP and JT Miller have also been pretty damn good and are at the top of the scoring list. Meanwhile, there are some other storylines with players who are solely leading the charge of their respective teams. Nylander in Toronto, Jack Hughes in New Jersey (assuming he returns to his pre-injury form), Panarin in New York...

Quinn would probably get MVP over those guys. Before Jack went down he would have been my pick. Quinn gets MVP for several reasons and this is ofcourse assuming he more or less keeps up this pace. 1. Hes a dman putting up elite forward numbers 2. He plays in a Canadian market. 3. He's a captain of a Canadian market 4. Its an underdog story based on where the Canucks finished last season and all the turmoil surrounding the team. 5. Hes very likeable.

All those factors will help him get the Norris and MVP. The crazy thing is Nylander has gotten a point in every game this season and plays in hockey mad Toronto but the media coverage has been all Quinn all the time.